But... willingness to sacrifice and do hard work also should correlate to ability to nail SATs. SAT test prep doesn't have to be a course, nor be an unaffordable expense for any household, if you are resourceful and willing to work at it.

Well stated, 21:12, and needed to be said.

Too often, while reading this thread, I felt like I was listening to clueless conservative Republicans after the election.

Anonymous wrote:One of the researchers looking at the question of what fuels educational success is Angela Duckworth:

http://www.apa.org/monitor/nov07/grit.aspx

http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/tomorrows-college/grit/angela-duckworth-grit.html

Duckworth's research suggests that when it comes to high achievement, grit may be as essential as intelligence. That's a significant finding because for a long time, intelligence was considered the key to success.

Intelligence "is probably the best-measured trait that there is in all of human psychology," says Duckworth. "We know how to measure intelligence in a matter of minutes."

But intelligence leaves a lot unexplained. There are smart people who aren't high achievers, and there are people who achieve a lot without having the highest test scores. In one study, Duckworth found that smarter students actually had less grit than their peers who scored lower on an intelligence test. This finding suggests that, among the study participants -- all students at an Ivy League school -- people who are not as bright as their peers "compensate by working harder and with more determination." And their effort pays off: The grittiest students -- not the smartest ones -- had the highest GPAs.

I read those articles. Interesting. Research on law school and the LSAT said the same thing. Hard work was the indicator of success. We can't find the answer to world peace here. What I know is that as a well educated Banneker parent who cannot speak more highly of our experience for our son, I know its a great school. I don't need to make excuses for the SAT scores because to be honest, I didn't even consider them when we chose the school. I did look at the teaching staff and college acceptance rates. I knew that because of our son's background, he was going to be fine.

If you don't want to send your kid there, fine. I don't really care, but don't disparage us who know that it's a great school. I can name 100 reasons that I would not send my son to Landon or St. Albans, but I don't tell people who do that they are making a terrible mistake. It's a choice. I think that to disregard a school based on SAT scores is laughable. Why are you even in a DCPS school if that is going to be your benchmark. Move to MD or VA.

When talking to black people, I explain that Banneker is a school like they used to have pre-integration. A school where excellence is expected and foolishness is not tolerated. When his grades slip, everyone knows. The principal gets involved. I love that. I know that my son is being taken care of and has 10 mothers.

Anonymous wrote:What research? My white kid earns straight As in AP classes and Wilson by doing around half as much school work as a half black cousin at TJ, who doesn't get straight As. My kid scored 600s on the SATs while his cousin got all 700s. Which kid is better prepared for college? Don't be so silly, it's a no brainer that high SAT scores correlate with readiness for college.

Give the pp a break -he or she was talking about parents' views, not the academic literature.

How do you figure? I had terrible LSATs and did great in law school. Did terrible on the SATs and did great in college.

One of the researchers looking at the question of what fuels educational success is Angela Duckworth:

http://www.apa.org/monitor/nov07/grit.aspx

http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/tomorrows-college/grit/angela-duckworth-grit.html

Duckworth's research suggests that when it comes to high achievement, grit may be as essential as intelligence. That's a significant finding because for a long time, intelligence was considered the key to success.

Intelligence "is probably the best-measured trait that there is in all of human psychology," says Duckworth. "We know how to measure intelligence in a matter of minutes."

But intelligence leaves a lot unexplained. There are smart people who aren't high achievers, and there are people who achieve a lot without having the highest test scores. In one study, Duckworth found that smarter students actually had less grit than their peers who scored lower on an intelligence test. This finding suggests that, among the study participants -- all students at an Ivy League school -- people who are not as bright as their peers "compensate by working harder and with more determination." And their effort pays off: The grittiest students -- not the smartest ones -- had the highest GPAs.

Anonymous wrote:What research? My white kid earns straight As in AP classes and Wilson by doing around half as much school work as a half black cousin at TJ, who doesn't get straight As. My kid scored 600s on the SATs while his cousin got all 700s. Which kid is better prepared for college? Don't be so silly, it's a no brainer that high SAT scores correlate with readiness for college.

Give the pp a break -he or she was talking about parents' views, not the academic literature.

Oh anecdotal data! A sample of two. Yep, that's the way we should make decisions.

Are you kidding me?!!!!

What research? My white kid earns straight As in AP classes and Wilson by doing around half as much school work as a half black cousin at TJ, who doesn't get straight As. My kid scored 600s on the SATs while his cousin got all 700s. Which kid is better prepared for college? Don't be so silly, it's a no brainer that high SAT scores correlate with readiness for college.

Give the pp a break -he or she was talking about parents' views, not the academic literature.

Anonymous wrote:New poster. This thread has a going-nowhere feel to it because it sounds like parents are satisfied with the school, and its college placement record, while outsiders (mostly white) who are new to DCPS aren't impressed. The latter group views SAT scores as an accurate barometer of a 17 year old's preparedness for college, diversity issues notwithstanding, while the former views being AA as a good reason for not scoring high. As long as parents view mediocre SAT scores as acceptable and Ivy League admisions are irrelevant, and whites shun the school, change isn't in store. I liked the line a few pages ago about DCPS being mired in relativism. So be it, no great tragedy in Banneker's case but the city can surely do better by the kids...

Hey, you missed the people who have read the research that college performance is more closely correlated with high school GPA than with SAT or ACT scores. But we wouldn't want to muddy the waters with actual research.

New poster. This thread has a going-nowhere feel to it because it sounds like parents are satisfied with the school, and its college placement record, while outsiders (mostly white) who are new to DCPS aren't impressed. The latter group views SAT scores as an accurate barometer of a 17 year old's preparedness for college, diversity issues notwithstanding, while the former views being AA as a good reason for not scoring high. As long as parents view mediocre SAT scores as acceptable and Ivy League admisions are irrelevant, and whites shun the school, change isn't in store. I liked the line a few pages ago about DCPS being mired in relativism. So be it, no great tragedy in Banneker's case but the city can surely do better by the kids...

Research shows that college performance and persistence are more closely correlated with high school GPA than with SAT and ACT scores. So I don't get the obsession with test scores.

A pp asked why there weren't more white students if it was such a great school. I think you only have to look at the response from some pps on this thread. They're looking at test scores and percentages of white kids from a distance and they haven't been to look at the school and haven't talked with any current or former students and parents. They don't want to have to venture across the park or have their kids venture across the park.

They're too lazy to go do their own research and they're offended that the administration isn't begging them to send their kids there because they assume that their white upper middle class kids are superior to the current student body. Being a minority in a top local school? That's for blacks and Latinos - not white kids. They're far too delicate to handle that.

Sorry, I know this is a very harsh statement. I don't have a problem if people feel the school wouldn't suit their kids but I do have a problem with the disdain - as if it's not enough to say the school isn't right for your child. The school has to be inferior - otherwise there would be more white people!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the kids are really under a great deal of pressure, and the academics truly are first-rate, as pps claim, why average SAT scores lower than Johns Hopkins summer CTY requires of 7th graders and only a handful of white kids? What's missing from this picture? I've perused the whole thread and still don't understand.

I really think that it's because Banneker is an application only school, but not a test in school. Kids come with great GPAs, an essay and teacher recommendations. That is very different than what is expected on the SAT. Kids come from NW, SE, SW and NE. They come with different skill levels, but work really hard. A lot of the SAT is about exposure.

I graduated from there. I agree with this. They take kids who are in the top X% of their class, but considering what schools they're coming from that can mean anything. There were kids there from Jefferson and Deal as well as kids from Sousa and Elliot. They tested us over the summer after we got there to determine which math and foreign language levels we'd take ninth grade. Those of us below level had to go to a Summer program to bring us up to speed.

Then there was also the issue of consistency with quality. There was a good Math teacher and a bad one, a good English teacher and a bad one. By "bad" I'm not being biased. My Algebra II teacher told us on day one that she didn't remember anything about the subject and that she was being forced to teach it by the Dean of Students despite her livid protest. She also told us that she had a kidney transplant and was not going to stress herself out over the course. Midway through the year she took a leave of absence and we had a substitute the rest of the year who knew nothing about Math. Meanwhile, the "good" Algebra II teacher met with students during lunch, they called him at home with questions and he was a walking graphic calculator. It's probably like that at all schools, but I would've expected a school like Banneker to be more discerning with its teaching staff. Not surprisingly, most of the kids in the Math and National Honor Societies were the ones who had the "good" teachers. They did better on the SAT. The rest of us, didn't do as well and brought the school's average down.

Most of us don't complain because we have so many horror stories from other DCPS. Banneker was the first school that I ever went to where I didn't worry about my safety. No drugs, no fighting and there was a heavy emphasis on us being "a Family." We even sing the song "Family" from Dreamgirls at nearly every assembly. It was our unofficial school song. The dress code was heavily enforced for example. They checked your clothes at the door and had sweatpants and shirts waiting for the girls with skirts above the knee, pants that were too tight or shirts that revealed any cleavage whatsoever. Sometimes I think that the better than average scores (compared to the rest of DCPS) is more the result of the environment than anything else.

Anonymous wrote:I've dealt with one college counselor as an alum interviewing Ivy League applicants and s/he seemed dim-witted, stuck in a different age. No real ambition for the brightest kids, seeing any halfway decent college offering good fi aid viewed as acceptable for the best students.

The main problem with Banneker seems to be old-fashioned thinking about affirmative action: no need for white/upper-middle-class kids in the school, no need for high octane SAT and AP scores, no need for high fliers to take more than a handful of AP classes, no need for cutting-edge facilities. No, our kids will all get a leg up for being hard-working, well taught, minority and, for the most part, poor. Buy this hackneyed story if you wish, but times they are a changin' on diversity issues in this country.

What the hell are you talking about??? As a parent, I shout from the mountain top about how great I think the Banneker administration is. You use one example of a situation with a guidance counselor and then say "no need for white/upper-middle-class kids in the school, no need for high octane SAT and AP scores, no need for high fliers to take more than a handful of AP classes, no need for cutting-edge facilities. No, our kids will all get a leg up for being hard-working, well taught, minority and, for the most part, poor. Buy this hackneyed story if you wish, but times they are a changin' on diversity issues in this country." A lot the kids have overcome hardship. They have homeless kids in the top of their class. Yes, that will give them a leg up.

Let's just see what happens with affirmative action. Quite frankly, I attended a historically black college. I don't need my son to attend an "ivy". I've made a ton of money in my career. More than most of my ivy counterparts to be honest. So, I don't need your "affirmative action" in admissions since you seem to hate it so much.

All they talk about is how hard the kids must work to stay. I cannot believe the support we've received from the school. They love to talk about where the kids are going to college. They encouraged us to enroll our son in the Exeter and Andover summer programs. Are you serious. Please stop commenting. Fine, we get it, you hate the school. I think it was by far, the best choice for our son.

They literally walk around and show the school banners of all of the schools students have attended. I've been there when students came back to see teachers and they are so excited and thankful.

I've dealt with one college counselor as an alum interviewing Ivy League applicants and s/he seemed dim-witted, stuck in a different age. No real ambition for the brightest kids, seeing any halfway decent college offering good fi aid viewed as acceptable for the best students.

The main problem with Banneker seems to be old-fashioned thinking about affirmative action: no need for white/upper-middle-class kids in the school, no need for high octane SAT and AP scores, no need for high fliers to take more than a handful of AP classes, no need for cutting-edge facilities. No, our kids will all get a leg up for being hard-working, well taught, minority and, for the most part, poor. Buy this hackneyed story if you wish, but times they are a changin' on diversity issues in this country.

Average SAT or not, how is the college counselor at Banneker? Great SAT score is definitely one thing, but I also hear that the ability of a great college counselor plays into it as well. Please share your experience.

Anonymous wrote:If the kids are really under a great deal of pressure, and the academics truly are first-rate, as pps claim, why average SAT scores lower than Johns Hopkins summer CTY requires of 7th graders and only a handful of white kids? What's missing from this picture? I've perused the whole thread and still don't understand.

I really think that it's because Banneker is an application only school, but not a test in school. Kids come with great GPAs, an essay and teacher recommendations. That is very different than what is expected on the SAT. Kids come from NW, SE, SW and NE. They come with different skill levels, but work really hard. A lot of the SAT is about exposure.