DCUM Forum

Anonymous

07/14/2011 17:51 Subject: Re:Why don't you believe in God?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even isolated communities develop some kind of "God" sense. Of course, they don't use the same name or know the same stories. But I believe our brains are hardwired to believe in God. There have been studies on the human brain that have isolated that portion of the brain believed to be responsible for our spiritual beliefs.

I think it takes a conscience effort NOT to believe in God. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about the belief that we have a creator. How is it difficult to understand? A newborn has no idea who you are for the first several months. He has no concept of life, of mommy, of daddy, of anything outside his limited world. Yet those things clearly exist. The newborn couldn't prove it. But he knows instinctively that he has a need to be loved and cared for.

Maybe we are like newborns....incapable of understanding God. Maybe we are like microscopic organisms. We know they exist. I doubt they could prove we do.

I do know that we are spiritual beings temporarily inhabiting our human bodies. I also know that my spirit desires a relationship with God. My understanding of God is very different from my parents. And truthfully, we are all probably wrong about the nature of God. But I know without any doubt that God exists. And that he hears my prayers.

I challenge those of you who have never truly experienced God. Spend some very genuine time seeking God. Spend time in quiet meditation and prayer. Ask God to show himself to you during the next week. I'm not talking about religion. I'm talking about making a very real effort to connect with your creator. Be open and be genuine. I'll bet if you are open, God will reveal himself to you in some way during the week. Will you be brave enough to be open to the experience?

Please don't see this post as condescending. It's not meant to be. And you have nothing to lose by taking this challenge.

As long as a single middle-aged man invents some story to explain something he doesn't understand out of whole cloth, societies will have "gods". As you say, it's universal.

Here is why the post is condescending, even though it does not intend to be. You assume that if people just try hard enough, and open their hearts, they will see God. You pretty much said it yourself when you wrote that it takes a conscious effort not to find God.

So when someone doesn't find God in this journey, people who make this argument say "his heart is closed", "his search was not genuine", "he was not ready to receive God". In other words, the failure to find God is the fault of the seeker. That's incredibly condescending.

Anonymous

07/14/2011 17:09 Subject: Re:Why don't you believe in God?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This to me is one of the saddest topics. I do believe in God and even though I can't see him, I know he is there. I also believe in the Bible. I just don;t even know what to say.

Are you kidding? This is one of the best threads I've read on DCUM in a long time. And I am one of the people who posted earlier saying that I believed. Sort of.

This person doesn't want to talk about it. She just wants us to believe.

Kudos to you and the OP, who believe (you sort of) and who want to talk about it.

Anonymous

07/14/2011 17:01 Subject: Re:Why don't you believe in God?

Anonymous wrote:This to me is one of the saddest topics. I do believe in God and even though I can't see him, I know he is there. I also believe in the Bible. I just don;t even know what to say.

Are you kidding? This is one of the best threads I've read on DCUM in a long time. And I am one of the people who posted earlier saying that I believed. Sort of.

Anonymous

07/14/2011 16:52 Subject: Re:Why don't you believe in God?

I grew up Catholic, and was a believer, mostly, until my early 20's. I used to question why God would allow my mother, very much a believing woman, to be so unhappy. She was married to my alcoholic, abusive (to her and my brothers) father, and had taken a vow, which is why I assume she never left. Meanwhile, my brothers and I lived in a very unhealthy household, to say the least. I would pray for things to change, but they never did. Then, when I was 23, my brother either took his own life or died an accidental death (inconclusive autopsy). I pretty much lost any faith I had at this point.

Mostly, everything about organized religion (any one, not just Catholicism/Christianity) just rings false for me. I heard so many religious platitudes upon my brother's death (God has a better plan, he's in a better place, etc. etc.) - and frankly, it pissed me off, and sounded like complete bullshit. A better plan? He was 25 and had his whole life ahead of him. He hadn't lived a happy life up until that point, but he was starting to get things together. Being in the grave was a better plan?

Do I believe there's something bigger than us out there? Yes, probably. Do I believe that something/someone cares whether I pray or is listening (no) or that I need to go to church? No. Is there an afterlife? I hope so, but I think, probably not.

Anonymous

07/14/2011 16:35 Subject: Why don't you believe in God?

Wouldnt "God" cease to exist if everybody stopped believing?

Anonymous

07/14/2011 16:30 Subject: Why don't you believe in God?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's assume for the moment that because we do not have an explanation for the existence of matter, we have to posit a creator. Okay. That doesn't get you to God as any major world religion defines him. It just gets you a creator.

That is fine! If we call God the Creator, the First Mover, does that change some of the professed atheists' position? Because very few of the PPs who professed atheism specifically stated they do not believe in a Creator. They just had problems with various religions.

I'm the PP and I'm basically an atheist. I do not really care if there is a creator. I'm agnostic on that point.

Anonymous

07/14/2011 16:30 Subject: Re:Why don't you believe in God?

Why do we need an explanation for the universe? Existence of our universe proves only one thing: that our universe exists. We don't know how it started. We have lots of theories, some more plausible than others, but lack the knowledge or skill to acquire the knowledge at this point in time. I'm alright with that. Knowing how it all started is not important to my daily life. Attributing the things we don't understand to an omnipotent creator just seems silly to me. Why even bother looking for anymore answers if can all be explained by the existence of a creator?

Anonymous

07/14/2011 16:25 Subject: Why don't you believe in God?

Anonymous wrote:Let's assume for the moment that because we do not have an explanation for the existence of matter, we have to posit a creator. Okay. That doesn't get you to God as any major world religion defines him. It just gets you a creator.

That is fine! If we call God the Creator, the First Mover, does that change some of the professed atheists' position? Because very few of the PPs who professed atheism specifically stated they do not believe in a Creator. They just had problems with various religions.

Anonymous

07/14/2011 16:21 Subject: Why don't you believe in God?

OP again: my quotation was from C.S. Lewis; I was having computer problems with this website and I somehow posted too soon. My commentary on his quotation will need to wait until after dinner, but quickly, Lewis was referencing other theories of knowing Truth, such as pragmatism, empiricism, rationalism, coherence (Spinoza), as well as theories of subjectivism (Kant, Hegel, pantheism). I will do my best to briefly address each of these alternate theories of knowing truth/there is no truth, but this is heavy stuff much better addressed by the masters! I would rather point you elsewhere.

And please, I don't want this conversation to turn into typical DCUM sniping! Please just answer the initial questions, and be nice.

Anonymous

07/14/2011 16:16 Subject: Why don't you believe in God?

Let's assume for the moment that because we do not have an explanation for the existence of matter, we have to posit a creator. Okay. That doesn't get you to God as any major world religion defines him. It just gets you a creator.

Anonymous

07/14/2011 15:49 Subject: Why don't you believe in God?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Frankly, I find this infinitely more compelling (and interesting) than the idea that there's a god-like being out there.

I really have a hard time believing physics can come up with an explanation for why energy has to exist at all. An explanation for why there isn't just nothing. Once you postulate energy, you can use many world theories, etc to maybe explain everything else. But you are still left with "who created god", just rephrased as "why is there energy (=anything)?"

Indeed. And putting aside the many problems with Darwin's theory, why are there creatures to evolve at all?

Re-read the PP comment. The idea that a theist talks about "the many problems with Darwin's theory" is laughable. But furthermore, it's intellectually impoverished to say, "You can't tell me why there has to be energy! Why isn't there nothing? You can't answer that, but I can: It's because there's this infinitely complex phenomenon called 'god' that I define with a wave of my hand."

God may not exist, but He's an extremely powerful tautology. He doesn't "explain" anything; "god" is the sound of otherwise rational people throwing in of the towel. It's an abdication of our responsibility as adult human beings with cognition.

I am a believer but your argument is flawed. You say why isn't there nothing? The same can be said of god. why does god exist?a: he just does. It is a mystery. Scientists say roughly the same about energy. It just is. We could look but we can't see what preceded the big bang.

Both science and religion have to believe in something that was there attge beginning. Energy is not more implausible than God.