Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really a school created problem.

When schools noticed that top students deeply understood math concepts, they changed the curriculum for everyone. They assumed that forcing all children to learn through abstract, big-picture thinking would automatically make them better at math. However, this ignored how math skills actually develop.

High-performing students often master the rules, formulas, and repetitive practice first, using that solid foundation to unlock deeper conceptual understanding later. By removing traditional math practice and drill-work from classrooms, schools left average and struggling students without the basic tools they need, ultimately making them worse at both the formulas and the concepts.

For example, students spend a massive amount of wasted time as teachers get them to draw out pictures and circles to understand multiplication, talk about it, and try to construct their own understanding and problem-solving methods. This visual drawing process takes so much more time than traditional math. Furthermore, when they manually count up all those drawings, they have no real way of confirming if the problem is correct because they have no automatic recall to verify it against.

If schools just had students memorize the multiplication tables first, and then did a couple of days' worth of conceptual understanding, the students would have it down quickly. Instead, math students now get no real procedural, repetitive practice, so they don't really develop conceptual knowledge either. They are just low in math all around.

Different curriculum works for different kids. Homeschool parents understand this. Some kids do very well with conceptual, abstract math and they don't need repetition. Other kids need traditional math with algorithms and multiplication tables. I think math is where ed tech makes the most sense. Put the top kids in something like AoPS and put the struggling kids in a program in a more traditional program.

This is not true. All kids need to nail down math facts. Some do it more quickly and instinctively than others, but the way they learn is not different.

Ed Tech does not help at all here.

You are wrong. My youngest did not need help nailing down math facts beyond Beast Academy. She is the fastest kid in her class at school on math facts, and she's never done drills at home. The only math supplementing we've done is BA, and we do it at home, not at a center, and we are not math inclined ourselves - we just follow their script, and she knows all her math facts cold and can mentally add, subtract, multiply, and divide multi-digit numbers. We've never done flashcards, plaid math games (outside of BA), etc. This would not have worked for our other kids, but it's worked very well for her.

Anonymous wrote:Yep using an app to do math and having either multiple choice or getting the chance to do a lesson over and over, with the same questions, they eventually just remember the answer and pass the lesson. But they can't actually solve a problem on their own. I see what my kids are doing.

Anonymous wrote:It's not just smart phones and social media. A lot of these losses are happening among elementary age kids who don't have access to either. But the reliance on Ed Tech to teach math and reading is a big problem. Blaming screens at home doesn't make sense because kids have been watching screens at home for decades, that's not something that started in 2015.

What shifted for kids is they went from mostly using books, paper, and pencil in the classroom to using 1:1 devices and ed tech software. That's true for kids who were get zero screen time at home, and it's true for kids who get hours of screen time at home every day.

Go back to physical books, handwriting, and working out math problems with pencil and paper. Studies show that children retain information better and longer when they learn it from physical media instead of digitally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really a school created problem.

When schools noticed that top students deeply understood math concepts, they changed the curriculum for everyone. They assumed that forcing all children to learn through abstract, big-picture thinking would automatically make them better at math. However, this ignored how math skills actually develop.

High-performing students often master the rules, formulas, and repetitive practice first, using that solid foundation to unlock deeper conceptual understanding later. By removing traditional math practice and drill-work from classrooms, schools left average and struggling students without the basic tools they need, ultimately making them worse at both the formulas and the concepts.

For example, students spend a massive amount of wasted time as teachers get them to draw out pictures and circles to understand multiplication, talk about it, and try to construct their own understanding and problem-solving methods. This visual drawing process takes so much more time than traditional math. Furthermore, when they manually count up all those drawings, they have no real way of confirming if the problem is correct because they have no automatic recall to verify it against.

If schools just had students memorize the multiplication tables first, and then did a couple of days' worth of conceptual understanding, the students would have it down quickly. Instead, math students now get no real procedural, repetitive practice, so they don't really develop conceptual knowledge either. They are just low in math all around.

Different curriculum works for different kids. Homeschool parents understand this. Some kids do very well with conceptual, abstract math and they don't need repetition. Other kids need traditional math with algorithms and multiplication tables. I think math is where ed tech makes the most sense. Put the top kids in something like AoPS and put the struggling kids in a program in a more traditional program.

This is not true. All kids need to nail down math facts. Some do it more quickly and instinctively than others, but the way they learn is not different.

Ed Tech does not help at all here.

You are wrong. My youngest did not need help nailing down math facts beyond Beast Academy. She is the fastest kid in her class at school on math facts, and she's never done drills at home. The only math supplementing we've done is BA, and we do it at home, not at a center, and we are not math inclined ourselves - we just follow their script, and she knows all her math facts cold and can mentally add, subtract, multiply, and divide multi-digit numbers. We've never done flashcards, plaid math games (outside of BA), etc. This would not have worked for our other kids, but it's worked very well for her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really a school created problem.

When schools noticed that top students deeply understood math concepts, they changed the curriculum for everyone. They assumed that forcing all children to learn through abstract, big-picture thinking would automatically make them better at math. However, this ignored how math skills actually develop.

High-performing students often master the rules, formulas, and repetitive practice first, using that solid foundation to unlock deeper conceptual understanding later. By removing traditional math practice and drill-work from classrooms, schools left average and struggling students without the basic tools they need, ultimately making them worse at both the formulas and the concepts.

For example, students spend a massive amount of wasted time as teachers get them to draw out pictures and circles to understand multiplication, talk about it, and try to construct their own understanding and problem-solving methods. This visual drawing process takes so much more time than traditional math. Furthermore, when they manually count up all those drawings, they have no real way of confirming if the problem is correct because they have no automatic recall to verify it against.

If schools just had students memorize the multiplication tables first, and then did a couple of days' worth of conceptual understanding, the students would have it down quickly. Instead, math students now get no real procedural, repetitive practice, so they don't really develop conceptual knowledge either. They are just low in math all around.

Different curriculum works for different kids. Homeschool parents understand this. Some kids do very well with conceptual, abstract math and they don't need repetition. Other kids need traditional math with algorithms and multiplication tables. I think math is where ed tech makes the most sense. Put the top kids in something like AoPS and put the struggling kids in a program in a more traditional program.

This is not true. All kids need to nail down math facts. Some do it more quickly and instinctively than others, but the way they learn is not different.

Ed Tech does not help at all here.

It seems you're agreeing with PP - give the fast learners something that teaches the math facts quickly and briefly and review them in the context of challenging problems (which is what Beast Academy does) and give the normal kids something with regular facts practice well into upper elementary if necessary.

I do. I would prefer to send my kid to nature school with amazing teachers and no tech, but absent that option, I'd rather give the kids who are ahead something rigorous online like Beast Academy rather than make them sit and listen to the teacher teach to the lowest denominator how to add and subtract within 20 when they can already mentally add and subtract 4-digit numbers.

Anonymous wrote:For now teacher have to incessantly inflate the grades and I guess that proves that it is working ...as we really don't enforce for have consequences for cheating. When the whole system gets bankrupted by lawsuits and mismanagement a new school system will have to take it's place. Probably one that needs some good Ed tech. Then the tax dollar river goes flowing with billions again. The obscene amount of money that dominates education instead of people the whole thing is run on profiteering nonprofits. Teachers get blamed, hacked, or they fall in line and play the corruption game. Cover up the appalling negative data that reflects the true status of bs interventions and initiatives that cancels teachers in favor of tech.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is really a school created problem.

When schools noticed that top students deeply understood math concepts, they changed the curriculum for everyone. They assumed that forcing all children to learn through abstract, big-picture thinking would automatically make them better at math. However, this ignored how math skills actually develop.

High-performing students often master the rules, formulas, and repetitive practice first, using that solid foundation to unlock deeper conceptual understanding later. By removing traditional math practice and drill-work from classrooms, schools left average and struggling students without the basic tools they need, ultimately making them worse at both the formulas and the concepts.

For example, students spend a massive amount of wasted time as teachers get them to draw out pictures and circles to understand multiplication, talk about it, and try to construct their own understanding and problem-solving methods. This visual drawing process takes so much more time than traditional math. Furthermore, when they manually count up all those drawings, they have no real way of confirming if the problem is correct because they have no automatic recall to verify it against.

If schools just had students memorize the multiplication tables first, and then did a couple of days' worth of conceptual understanding, the students would have it down quickly. Instead, math students now get no real procedural, repetitive practice, so they don't really develop conceptual knowledge either. They are just low in math all around.

Different curriculum works for different kids. Homeschool parents understand this. Some kids do very well with conceptual, abstract math and they don't need repetition. Other kids need traditional math with algorithms and multiplication tables. I think math is where ed tech makes the most sense. Put the top kids in something like AoPS and put the struggling kids in a program in a more traditional program.

This is not true. All kids need to nail down math facts. Some do it more quickly and instinctively than others, but the way they learn is not different.

Ed Tech does not help at all here.

It seems you're agreeing with PP - give the fast learners something that teaches the math facts quickly and briefly and review them in the context of challenging problems (which is what Beast Academy does) and give the normal kids something with regular facts practice well into upper elementary if necessary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Are the admins all getting mega kickbacks for signing on to all the ed-tech? Like are they all sleeping with their ed-tech sales reps or something?

People imagine that ed tech adoption is some nefarious, corrupt thing. Rather, there are a number of reasons admin are pressured to purchase and deploy computer-based learning platforms.

A number of states have learning standards that include computer-based work. In the same way that students need to know their multiplication facts by the end of 3rd grade, there will be similar standards for 21st century learning skills or something similar. Teachers who fail to teach these standards can have reduced evaluation scores.

Classrooms are also very diverse. I’ve taught in small, moderately selective private schools where two students in the room are scoring in single-digit percentiles on standardized tests and three students in the room are scoring in the 99th percentile. Computers make it easier to support lagging learner and to challenge fast learners without the teacher designing three separate lessons per day. We aren’t going to fix this issue until all schools have meaningful identification, support, and remediation for learning disabled students and have ability-tracked classes (currently too much of a risk for discrimination claims in the public school setting).

Finally, grading takes a lot of time. When teachers have student loads of up to 140 students, they don’t even have one minute per child per day to do grading. Automated learning activities provide fast, actionable feedback.

I am not saying that any of this makes ed tech great. Rather, it’s useful for parents to understand how we got here in education.

Anonymous wrote:
Are the admins all getting mega kickbacks for signing on to all the ed-tech? Like are they all sleeping with their ed-tech sales reps or something?

Anonymous wrote:It's not just smart phones and social media. A lot of these losses are happening among elementary age kids who don't have access to either. But the reliance on Ed Tech to teach math and reading is a big problem. Blaming screens at home doesn't make sense because kids have been watching screens at home for decades, that's not something that started in 2015.

What shifted for kids is they went from mostly using books, paper, and pencil in the classroom to using 1:1 devices and ed tech software. That's true for kids who were get zero screen time at home, and it's true for kids who get hours of screen time at home every day.

Go back to physical books, handwriting, and working out math problems with pencil and paper. Studies show that children retain information better and longer when they learn it from physical media instead of digitally.