Anonymous wrote:I'm afraid of failing my kids by not providing the support or guidance or resources they need to do the following things:

(1) Get a good education - in high school, college, and beyond. I mean this very broadly, knowing that there are MANY versions of this, not just one specific path;

(2) Identify 10+ colleges (safety, target, and reach) where they feel truly comfortable they can thrive and develop, both academically and socially (and conversely, rule out the colleges where they do not feel they are likely to thrive); and

(3) Provide them with whatever guidance or resources they need to put their best foot forward and get a fair shake in this messed up admissions process that often feels more unpredictable and random than it should.

More broadly, I have little doubt that both my kids will be successful in life, though I have no clue what exactly that will look like. Both kids are smart, hardworking, good with people, emotionally even-keeled, and surprisingly adaptable. Whatever path they take, I genuinely believe they will be fine!

So, I guess my fear is sadly self-focused. I feel a lot of pressure to "do right by them" - to help them navigate this complicated (and often seemingly random) process in a way that helps them be seen and evaluated for who they are. Truly "holistically," which is ironic . . . .

(Thanks for posting your quesiton, OP. Just writing the above "confession" has helped me step back a bit and remind myself that I need to chill the heck out. It's going to be ok. Yes, I'll likely miss something - or many somethings - or inadvertantly give them a bad steer or two. But in the end, I trust that they both can thrive and be happy in all many different environments while handling whatever ups and downs they encounter along the way. I just need to remind myself of that more often . . . . .)

Anonymous wrote:Some of you have wildly dystopian views of the future and really no faith in your kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

I agree with this in part.

Yes, I agee that UHNW families who can quite comfortably pay $400k+ per child are not viewing the choice of college through a lens of future economic security.

For most familes in this group, questions and concerns about job prospects - especially first jobs and average starting salaries - are much lower on the list of priorities than for other families. Unless the family has a strong "do it yourself" ethos or forced "make your own way" approach, they know their kids will graduate college with accessible generational wealth behind them and access to whatever networks they may want or need to succeed.

But I disagree about these families being less interested or intense about the Ivies/T10 colleges, especially for their kids who have succeeded in rigorous private schools and demonstrated that they meet (or are close to) the "objective" criteria for admission.

In this country, college offers many things in addition to an education and a pathway to a job and career. In America, higher education is - and always has been - a social and economic sorting tool. And my experience tells me that UHNW families do prefer to see their kids at Ivies/T10 colleges if they think it will be a good experience for them overall. This is especially true for parents who themselves had good experiences at these elite schools.

When it comes to viewing college as a vehicle for economic security, families who can comfortably pay $400k_when it comes to the focus on job security

I just want to highlight the difference in what college rankings mean in East Asian countries vs. in US.

In East Asian countries the college rankings reflect purely academic excellence, not wealth. People genuinely respect you if you say you graduated from the University of Tokyo, simply for your academic achievements. Sure, socioeconomic status can provide some advantages, but ultimately it’s the student’s own performance that matters.

Because of this, students can fully enjoy their hobbies—playing soccer, baseball, games, dancing—simply for the joy of it. Extracurriculars are for fun, not to prove their worth, because their academic record already speaks for itself. I am well aware of the grinding culture in East Asia but for truly bright kids, that is not the case. They can do well academically without too much efforts not like how people portrait them that they are just NERDs. Quite the contrary.

Anonymous wrote:Downward mobility

Anonymous wrote:All of these discussions really raise the question of whether college—or elite colleges in particular—still function as tools for social mobility into the ultra-wealthy class (especially if the middle class continues to shrink, in my view). That’s why so many middle-class parents are worried about downward social mobility.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

Spot on. And chances are those parents themselves came from top-10 schools in their home countries.

In reality, the fast lane in this country is still reserved for certain groups. Immigrants may or may not recognize this, but they either conform to it—or their children actually see through it and try to break through the ceiling by starting their own businesses.

I disagree. I constantly see how the rich and elite class finds ways to get their kids in to top colleges. Remember varsity blues? Why did all these celebrities and highly influential families need to pay someone to take the SATs for their children or lie about extra curriculars? The rich and influential people want more. Just being rich is not enough they want all sorts of labels and brands, job titles etc..
Also, we are in a high achieving high school district. Many parents went to Ivy or Ivy plus. And the kids of those parents have been bragging since they were 10 that thats where they are headed too. They are competitive and they not immigrants, not even Asians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

Spot on. And chances are those parents themselves came from top-10 schools in their home countries.

In reality, the fast lane in this country is still reserved for certain groups. Immigrants may or may not recognize this, but they either conform to it—or their children actually see through it and try to break through the ceiling by starting their own businesses.

I disagree. I constantly see how the rich and elite class finds ways to get their kids in to top colleges. Remember varsity blues? Why did all these celebrities and highly influential families need to pay someone to take the SATs for their children or lie about extra curriculars? The rich and influential people want more. Just being rich is not enough they want all sorts of labels and brands, job titles etc..
Also, we are in a high achieving high school district. Many parents went to Ivy or Ivy plus. And the kids of those parents have been bragging since they were 10 that thats where they are headed too. They are competitive and they not immigrants, not even Asians.

In my anecdotal experience, the filthy rich don't give a damn where their kids go school. They are perfectly happy sending their kids to SMU or TCU or wherever. It's the upper middle class - professionals - who are scared senseless of downward mobility for their children. These people - who work demanding jobs - know exactly what the future beholds for most young people in America. It is going to be tough out there in the decades ahead. And since there is a strong correlation between going to a top university and future success, they are quite keen to see their kids go to elite schools so that they can a get decent job and have some opportunities. It has nothing to do with bragging and everything to do with fear.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

Spot on. And chances are those parents themselves came from top-10 schools in their home countries.

In reality, the fast lane in this country is still reserved for certain groups. Immigrants may or may not recognize this, but they either conform to it—or their children actually see through it and try to break through the ceiling by starting their own businesses.

I disagree. I constantly see how the rich and elite class finds ways to get their kids in to top colleges. Remember varsity blues? Why did all these celebrities and highly influential families need to pay someone to take the SATs for their children or lie about extra curriculars? The rich and influential people want more. Just being rich is not enough they want all sorts of labels and brands, job titles etc..
Also, we are in a high achieving high school district. Many parents went to Ivy or Ivy plus. And the kids of those parents have been bragging since they were 10 that thats where they are headed too. They are competitive and they not immigrants, not even Asians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

Spot on. And chances are those parents themselves came from top-10 schools in their home countries.

In reality, the fast lane in this country is still reserved for certain groups. Immigrants may or may not recognize this, but they either conform to it—or their children actually see through it and try to break through the ceiling by starting their own businesses.

I disagree. I constantly see how the rich and elite class finds ways to get their kids in to top colleges. Remember varsity blues? Why did all these celebrities and highly influential families need to pay someone to take the SATs for their children or lie about extra curriculars? The rich and influential people want more. Just being rich is not enough they want all sorts of labels and brands, job titles etc..
Also, we are in a high achieving high school district. Many parents went to Ivy or Ivy plus. And the kids of those parents have been bragging since they were 10 that thats where they are headed too. They are competitive and they not immigrants, not even Asians.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

Spot on. And chances are those parents themselves came from top-10 schools in their home countries.

In reality, the fast lane in this country is still reserved for certain groups. Immigrants may or may not recognize this, but they either conform to it—or their children actually see through it and try to break through the ceiling by starting their own businesses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

I agree with this in part.

Yes, I agee that UHNW families who can quite comfortably pay $400k+ per child are not viewing the choice of college through a lens of future economic security.

For most familes in this group, questions and concerns about job prospects - especially first jobs and average starting salaries - are much lower on the list of priorities than for other families. Unless the family has a strong "do it yourself" ethos or forced "make your own way" approach, they know their kids will graduate college with accessible generational wealth behind them and access to whatever networks they may want or need to succeed.

But I disagree about these families being less interested or intense about the Ivies/T10 colleges, especially for their kids who have succeeded in rigorous private schools and demonstrated that they meet (or are close to) the "objective" criteria for admission.

In this country, college offers many things in addition to an education and a pathway to a job and career. In America, higher education is - and always has been - a social and economic sorting tool. And my experience tells me that UHNW families do prefer to see their kids at Ivies/T10 colleges if they think it will be a good experience for them overall. This is especially true for parents who themselves had good experiences at these elite schools.

When it comes to viewing college as a vehicle for economic security, families who can comfortably pay $400k_when it comes to the focus on job security

I just want to highlight the difference in what college rankings mean in East Asian countries vs. in US.

In East Asian countries the college rankings reflect purely academic excellence, not wealth. People genuinely respect you if you say you graduated from the University of Tokyo, simply for your academic achievements. Sure, socioeconomic status can provide some advantages, but ultimately it’s the student’s own performance that matters.

Because of this, students can fully enjoy their hobbies—playing soccer, baseball, games, dancing—simply for the joy of it. Extracurriculars are for fun, not to prove their worth, because their academic record already speaks for itself. I am well aware of the grinding culture in East Asia but for truly bright kids, that is not the case. They can do well academically without too much efforts not like how people portrait them that they are just NERDs. Quite the contrary.

This sounds wonderful. Seriously.

Though I certainly appreciate some of the goals and values behind the "holistic" admissions process here in the US, it's turned in to a huge mess, especially for the T20 schools.

Kids are expected to show that they're so much more than "just" academically exceptional. They also need to be exceptional in multiple other ways (ideally, including a massive "spike"), able to articulate a coherent story they can convey consistently and in a way that "stands out" through different pieces of the application process, and be willing to advocate vigorously for themselves without sounding like an insufferable jerk.

Ultimately, it's exhausting.

At this point, I think I'd prefer a lottery system. In many ways it feels like that now. So why not make it official?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is anyone worried about spending 400K on their kids' college degree and then the kid can't find a job?

I will get criticized, but this is my honest observation:

Families who can comfortably pay $400k for 1 DC's college (so often over $1million for 2 kids esp if you consider this is post-tax net dollars and the opportunity investment cost) don't actually stress that much about whether their kids get can a job. They may have high expectations for getting the most prestigious and top-earning jobs, but these are not the families who fear their kids will starve and be homeless. Among our friend group, even those who have "normal great" jobs likes doctors, engineers, accountants, sales directors, etc. with HHI $250k-600k send their kids to state schools or try to get some merit. The ones who truly pays $400k cash out of pocket without loans have HHI $1mm+, and they are not worries their kids can't find any job. These parents and kids have enough connections, resources and frankly higher-than-average IQ that even if they don't get their dream job, they know they won't be working at Walmart.

I find it's typically the first-gen parents in the $200k-500k HHI category who are most intense about Ivies/T10 colleges. They have had some success themselves but are not secure about keeping that upward mobility going, and if they had seen someone at work getting promoted in the fast lane or a new young boss coming in with a HYP degree, that's all it takes to get them obsessed about getting into T10. Many top 1% families I know actually care less about Ivies, jobs after undergrad and prefer the WASP and grad school route.

I agree with this in part.

Yes, I agee that UHNW families who can quite comfortably pay $400k+ per child are not viewing the choice of college through a lens of future economic security.

For most familes in this group, questions and concerns about job prospects - especially first jobs and average starting salaries - are much lower on the list of priorities than for other families. Unless the family has a strong "do it yourself" ethos or forced "make your own way" approach, they know their kids will graduate college with accessible generational wealth behind them and access to whatever networks they may want or need to succeed.

But I disagree about these families being less interested or intense about the Ivies/T10 colleges, especially for their kids who have succeeded in rigorous private schools and demonstrated that they meet (or are close to) the "objective" criteria for admission.

In this country, college offers many things in addition to an education and a pathway to a job and career. In America, higher education is - and always has been - a social and economic sorting tool. And my experience tells me that UHNW families do prefer to see their kids at Ivies/T10 colleges if they think it will be a good experience for them overall. This is especially true for parents who themselves had good experiences at these elite schools.

When it comes to viewing college as a vehicle for economic security, families who can comfortably pay $400k_when it comes to the focus on job security

I just want to highlight the difference in what college rankings mean in East Asian countries vs. in US.

In East Asian countries the college rankings reflect purely academic excellence, not wealth. People genuinely respect you if you say you graduated from the University of Tokyo, simply for your academic achievements. Sure, socioeconomic status can provide some advantages, but ultimately it’s the student’s own performance that matters.

Because of this, students can fully enjoy their hobbies—playing soccer, baseball, games, dancing—simply for the joy of it. Extracurriculars are for fun, not to prove their worth, because their academic record already speaks for itself. I am well aware of the grinding culture in East Asia but for truly bright kids, that is not the case. They can do well academically without too much efforts not like how people portrait them that they are just NERDs. Quite the contrary.