Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That 15 seconds your doctor looked at your xray is not 15 seconds of his time. It’s years to be that educated to quickly diagnose your problem. But you don’t seem to really be logical here. Don’t go.

+1

A plumber came to my house and fixed the problem in fifteen minutes. Still cost $150.

I paid for his experience and not his time.

And if a doctor charged $150 for a 15-minute house call, people wouldn't be complaining. But instead we're paying doctors 2-4x as much as western European countries and getting worse results.

It's almost like greed isn't a good predictor for being a good doctor.

Anonymous wrote:That 15 seconds your doctor looked at your xray is not 15 seconds of his time. It’s years to be that educated to quickly diagnose your problem. But you don’t seem to really be logical here. Don’t go.

+1

A plumber came to my house and fixed the problem in fifteen minutes. Still cost $150.

I paid for his experience and not his time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So OP, surely you understand that the ones who bring in the revenue , in any business, are the ones who get paid the most. If you are a cardiac surgeon who performs complex congenital heart defect repairs on infants, you bring in tons of revenue and you’re going to be paid well. Public defenders don’t bring in revenue so of course they aren’t paid as well. Big law partners do bring in revenue. See the trend?

Gee, so all those med students who say they want to enter into medicine "to help people" and not for the money were full of S all along, huh?

Of course, in America, medicine is about revenue, NPV, and cash flows. No wonder medicine in the US sucks ass and is bottom of the barrel garbage.

This tired argument comes out every time a doctor or a nurse or a teacher (or, on another thread, a PT or SLP) mentions wanting to be compensated for their expertise, you come and say “oh I thought you were doing this to HELP PEOPLE not GET PAID”. Like, grow up. No one is going to train for 8-12 years while going into significant debt and then not expect to get paid for their expertise. The difference is, pediatric cardiac surgeons ALSO want to help children survive. They want to use their brains and their hands to do good in their community. Also wanting to be compensated fairly for that doesn’t turn them into a corporate monster.

Anonymous wrote:So OP, surely you understand that the ones who bring in the revenue , in any business, are the ones who get paid the most. If you are a cardiac surgeon who performs complex congenital heart defect repairs on infants, you bring in tons of revenue and you’re going to be paid well. Public defenders don’t bring in revenue so of course they aren’t paid as well. Big law partners do bring in revenue. See the trend?

Gee, so all those med students who say they want to enter into medicine "to help people" and not for the money were full of S all along, huh?

Of course, in America, medicine is about revenue, NPV, and cash flows. No wonder medicine in the US sucks ass and is bottom of the barrel garbage.

So OP, surely you understand that the ones who bring in the revenue , in any business, are the ones who get paid the most. If you are a cardiac surgeon who performs complex congenital heart defect repairs on infants, you bring in tons of revenue and you’re going to be paid well. Public defenders don’t bring in revenue so of course they aren’t paid as well. Big law partners do bring in revenue. See the trend?

I am a pediatric subspecialist and while insurance reimbursement rates don’t actually affect my salary, which is determined by the corporate overlords, it certainly isn’t 1600 dollars for a 30min visit. Hahaha. Get real. Even if the hospital sent an EOB that listed that amount (which they don’t), that’s not what insurance is paying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of you are completely missing the opportunity cost to go into these different specialties. My wife is a liver/kidney/pancreas transplant surgeon and did 4 years of med school, 7 years of general surgery residency (5 years + 2 research years), and a 2 year transplant specific fellowship. 13 years after graduation with 9 of those years being paid very little.

Trust me, she would have made far more in other fields with how intelligent/driven she is, but she actually values helping her patients over $$$. This is just one example, but how is this worse than some random overworked investment banker or lawyer?

Her colleagues abroad make far less and their patients have better outcomes in a better system. They could also go into banking or whatever. No career is “owed” outrageous pay.💰

That is true but what is it in particular that leads people to post it here? Why not lawyers, insurance exs or tech bros? This is a constant refrain on here (that doctors make too much).

Because everyone goes to the doctor and we are all paying outrageous sums for insurance. And because we are all nerds we look at the insurance statement and see the doctor charged the insurance $800 for a 20 minute appointment. So we see the cost right in front of us, more than insurance executive pay or whatever else.

Pull the other one, OP.

Has anyone here submitted an insurance claim for an out of network visit and gotten a check for $800? My $$$$ PPO pays out $160 for a 45 minute followup with a subspecialist.

Not sure what kind of insurance or specialist you are talking about- this is kind of the problem, isn’t it? My insurance reimbursed something like $1600 for a visit with a pediatric sub specialist while yours paid $160 for a different specialist. Everyone is paying seemingly random amounts.

*Did you just pull $1600 out of your rear end because I said $160? You said $800 before.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of you are completely missing the opportunity cost to go into these different specialties. My wife is a liver/kidney/pancreas transplant surgeon and did 4 years of med school, 7 years of general surgery residency (5 years + 2 research years), and a 2 year transplant specific fellowship. 13 years after graduation with 9 of those years being paid very little.

Trust me, she would have made far more in other fields with how intelligent/driven she is, but she actually values helping her patients over $$$. This is just one example, but how is this worse than some random overworked investment banker or lawyer?

Agree. Nobody is upset that Lawyers make a ton of money?

My dh is a physician—we are still in a lot of debt and live a moderate lifestyle, especially compared to what I hear on this board.

The vast majority of lawyers do not make a ton of money and still go into debt. Biglaw is not the norm. Public defenders do not even crack $100k most of the time.

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of you are completely missing the opportunity cost to go into these different specialties. My wife is a liver/kidney/pancreas transplant surgeon and did 4 years of med school, 7 years of general surgery residency (5 years + 2 research years), and a 2 year transplant specific fellowship. 13 years after graduation with 9 of those years being paid very little.

Trust me, she would have made far more in other fields with how intelligent/driven she is, but she actually values helping her patients over $$$. This is just one example, but how is this worse than some random overworked investment banker or lawyer?

Agree. Nobody is upset that Lawyers make a ton of money?

My dh is a physician—we are still in a lot of debt and live a moderate lifestyle, especially compared to what I hear on this board.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of you are completely missing the opportunity cost to go into these different specialties. My wife is a liver/kidney/pancreas transplant surgeon and did 4 years of med school, 7 years of general surgery residency (5 years + 2 research years), and a 2 year transplant specific fellowship. 13 years after graduation with 9 of those years being paid very little.

Trust me, she would have made far more in other fields with how intelligent/driven she is, but she actually values helping her patients over $$$. This is just one example, but how is this worse than some random overworked investment banker or lawyer?

Her colleagues abroad make far less and their patients have better outcomes in a better system. They could also go into banking or whatever. No career is “owed” outrageous pay.💰

That is true but what is it in particular that leads people to post it here? Why not lawyers, insurance exs or tech bros? This is a constant refrain on here (that doctors make too much).

Because everyone goes to the doctor and we are all paying outrageous sums for insurance. And because we are all nerds we look at the insurance statement and see the doctor charged the insurance $800 for a 20 minute appointment. So we see the cost right in front of us, more than insurance executive pay or whatever else.

Pull the other one, OP.

Has anyone here submitted an insurance claim for an out of network visit and gotten a check for $800? My $$$$ PPO pays out $160 for a 45 minute followup with a subspecialist.

Not sure what kind of insurance or specialist you are talking about- this is kind of the problem, isn’t it? My insurance reimbursed something like $1600 for a visit with a pediatric sub specialist while yours paid $160 for a different specialist. Everyone is paying seemingly random amounts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC area

DP- The entire country is not the DC area. There are parts of the country where the median income is probably less than $40,000 where specialist doctors are making even larger salaries than in DC- that anaesthesiologist is probably making $600,000.

You guys don’t even really disagree, you simply disagree on which cost is greater impact. In the end all of these costs impact cost and health outcomes.

I doubt the pp actually thinks insurance executives have much of an impact on health care costs. Besides the fact that their numbers are dwarfed by doctors, their actions tend to decrease health care costs (for better or worse).

“Your Honor, I stole $30 million dollars from the company, which then had to lay off employees. So my actions reduced payroll costs!”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of you are completely missing the opportunity cost to go into these different specialties. My wife is a liver/kidney/pancreas transplant surgeon and did 4 years of med school, 7 years of general surgery residency (5 years + 2 research years), and a 2 year transplant specific fellowship. 13 years after graduation with 9 of those years being paid very little.

Trust me, she would have made far more in other fields with how intelligent/driven she is, but she actually values helping her patients over $$$. This is just one example, but how is this worse than some random overworked investment banker or lawyer?

Her colleagues abroad make far less and their patients have better outcomes in a better system. They could also go into banking or whatever. No career is “owed” outrageous pay.💰

That is true but what is it in particular that leads people to post it here? Why not lawyers, insurance exs or tech bros? This is a constant refrain on here (that doctors make too much).

Because everyone goes to the doctor and we are all paying outrageous sums for insurance. And because we are all nerds we look at the insurance statement and see the doctor charged the insurance $800 for a 20 minute appointment. So we see the cost right in front of us, more than insurance executive pay or whatever else.

Pull the other one, OP.

Has anyone here submitted an insurance claim for an out of network visit and gotten a check for $800? My $$$$ PPO pays out $160 for a 45 minute followup with a subspecialist.

Anonymous wrote:Doctor pay doesn’t bother me. They often have a lot of expenses and it’s earnings so they pay taxes on it.

Insurance companies and corporate hospitals on the other hand… bother me very much.

How nice of you to not be bothered by the affordability of health care.

Well, you don’t have to go to the doctor then.