Anonymous wrote:agree that advanced/honors courses/tracks with fluid entry is best. being right around the cutoff for a rigid track program is tough.

Say what you want about Basis, it provides an accelerated program without gate-keeping.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC's poor don't need gifted and talented programs. They need to learn enough to not repeat 9th grade academy or drop out.

G&T isn't for them. It's for us, me and you, and the rest of the children of graduate degree holders.

As much as we love love love the rhetoric of identifying geniuses blooming among the families doing poorly in DC, it's not a statistical reality.

Not true. How did the mostly poor kids at Center City Congress Height’s score among BASIS and Latin for 8th grade math? The school put them in advanced coursework. The greatest failure is that we don’t give poor kids higher level work early enough and sometimes never at all. I say this as someone who has helped multiple of those poor kids you dismiss get to Ivy League schools.

Gifted and Talented isn’t about all. It’s about some. Deciding income is the measure or gateway for some is flat out wrong.

I will add that lots of kids at the bottom will not go anywhere no matter how much money you throw at them, that is just reality because parents don’t care, they don’t care, truancy, wrong priorities, whatever. This is very evident with how much money DC spends. Encourage the bottom 20-30% to vocational training and instead of using money for worthless, new initiatives every year, pay theses kids a small amount to go.

Use some of that money and open a G&T or magnet test in elementary school in each ward of the city, allocating a certain percentage of seats to low income SES kids and you will see a much higher ROI for your money. Do same with magnet middle and high school. You focus on lifting those with potential and motivation..

It is impossible to lift everyone up. Best you can do for the bottom is give them support and a pathway to being a productive member of society. We need lots more people in the trades.

agree that advanced/honors courses/tracks with fluid entry is best. being right around the cutoff for a rigid track program is tough.

Anonymous wrote:DC's poor don't need gifted and talented programs. They need to learn enough to not repeat 9th grade academy or drop out.

G&T isn't for them. It's for us, me and you, and the rest of the children of graduate degree holders.

As much as we love love love the rhetoric of identifying geniuses blooming among the families doing poorly in DC, it's not a statistical reality.

Not true. How did the mostly poor kids at Center City Congress Height’s score among BASIS and Latin for 8th grade math? The school put them in advanced coursework. The greatest failure is that we don’t give poor kids higher level work early enough and sometimes never at all. I say this as someone who has helped multiple of those poor kids you dismiss get to Ivy League schools.

Gifted and Talented isn’t about all. It’s about some. Deciding income is the measure or gateway for some is flat out wrong.

There are ways and ways to structure ES and MS GT programs in this country. But unfortunately, DCPS won't consider any of them, other than for middle school math tracking. We have DC friends who moved to MoCo for schools only to report being disappointed that their children failed to test into GT programming, often by a whisker, a point or two on admissions tests given to 3rd graders (for entry to MoCo's all GT 4th and 5th grade classrooms), or 5th grades for 6-8th grade GT programs, or 8th graders for HS magnet programs. DC friends who moved to Fairfax had similar complaints.

Meanwhile, DC pals who moved to Arlington for schools complain less. Their children had access to some GT ES programming and honors/intensified classes in 7th and 8th grade across core subjects open to all (but teachers will not dumb down the curriculum to stragglers).

I wish that DCPS would copy Arlington's approach. Even Deal lumps kids who work far behind grade level into the very same English, science and social studies classes as those who work ahead. It's a bad system for all the kids.

Anonymous wrote:DC's poor don't need gifted and talented programs. They need to learn enough to not repeat 9th grade academy or drop out.

G&T isn't for them. It's for us, me and you, and the rest of the children of graduate degree holders.

As much as we love love love the rhetoric of identifying geniuses blooming among the families doing poorly in DC, it's not a statistical reality.

Gifted and talented got me out of a low income bracket. When you remove it for the poor you remove the ladder.

Yes, the rich also benefit from it. Yes the majority of the poor don’t. However, when you remove the ladder, there is no way out.

You turn every kid into the statistics instead of helping those who can beat the odds.

For the rich or poor who don’t want to go to school, pouring money into them won’t help. Any money spent this way is misdirected. These funds should be spent on kids who want help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is nice. It is hopeful. But it is not supported by experience or research.

It also aligns with what high income families want out of the system.

I suggest you look at Mississippi then who was one of the worst districts and vastly improved by giving support and holding kids back.

Also, public education should meet the needs of all students and that includes higher performing students no matter race or SES level.

People like you and your thought process is exactly why we have such low standards and expectations and why so many families with options flee DCPS so that you are left with only the poor and lowest performing kids.

+1

DC is a great example of what not to do. We spend more on schools that almost everywhere else, and have less to show for it than almost everywhere else.

Anonymous wrote:This is nice. It is hopeful. But it is not supported by experience or research.

It also aligns with what high income families want out of the system.

I suggest you look at Mississippi then who was one of the worst districts and vastly improved by giving support and holding kids back.

Also, public education should meet the needs of all students and that includes higher performing students no matter race or SES level.

People like you and your thought process is exactly why we have such low standards and expectations and why so many families with options flee DCPS so that you are left with only the poor and lowest performing kids.

Anonymous wrote:This is nice. It is hopeful. But it is not supported by experience or research.

It also aligns with what high income families want out of the system.

Kids who don’t want to be in school in high school should not be forced to attend school. It’s pretty easy to solve. Give them a menial job, help them improve their material position, and get them out of the classrooms of the kids that want to learn.

This is nice. It is hopeful. But it is not supported by experience or research.

It also aligns with what high income families want out of the system.

Anonymous wrote:DC's poor don't need gifted and talented programs. They need to learn enough to not repeat 9th grade academy or drop out.

G&T isn't for them. It's for us, me and you, and the rest of the children of graduate degree holders.

As much as we love love love the rhetoric of identifying geniuses blooming among the families doing poorly in DC, it's not a statistical reality.

I would disagree. Test poor kids in 1st and 2nd and those that do well, place them in G & T in 3rd on up.

They will do well. But they need the support and to start early.

As to the low performers, they need support classes in addition to standard classes. Also a robust vo-tech program. Social promotion and lowering standards for all which is what DCPS does helps no one.

DC's poor don't need gifted and talented programs. They need to learn enough to not repeat 9th grade academy or drop out.

G&T isn't for them. It's for us, me and you, and the rest of the children of graduate degree holders.

As much as we love love love the rhetoric of identifying geniuses blooming among the families doing poorly in DC, it's not a statistical reality.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to public schools and can’t remember what I learned. I was not a great student either because I knew none of it really mattered at the end of the day and preferred to work after school, enjoy life, and coast by in school. I loved college. As an adult, I love life as well and am my own boss, make my own hours, content with everything. All this to say, I’m shocked people whose kids will be fine in the grand scheme of things spend so much time worrying about high school (note- I said the kids who will be fine which is the kids who have resources and parents who support them). Some of y’all need to understand what real problems are in life because this ain’t it.

Yes this is why it’s the poorest students who are hurt by not having G&T programs. The rich kids can get by without.

I agree but getting by should not be the standards that families in this town should uphold or accept.

There are lots of above average kids who have great potential to be the best they can. They might not be 100% internally motivated but can be motivated by high expectations and high performing peers.

How do I know? Because my kid is one of them. Easy things he will cruise and get it done fast and do well. Raise the bar and the peer group and he will work at it to get it done.

That is the difference. What is a shame is that so many people accept that the higher performing kids are fine and will get by when many if those kids can do much better.

We only associate with J&J blacks.

Anonymous wrote:I went to public schools and can’t remember what I learned. I was not a great student either because I knew none of it really mattered at the end of the day and preferred to work after school, enjoy life, and coast by in school. I loved college. As an adult, I love life as well and am my own boss, make my own hours, content with everything. All this to say, I’m shocked people whose kids will be fine in the grand scheme of things spend so much time worrying about high school (note- I said the kids who will be fine which is the kids who have resources and parents who support them). Some of y’all need to understand what real problems are in life because this ain’t it.

Yes this is why it’s the poorest students who are hurt by not having G&T programs. The rich kids can get by without.