Anonymous wrote:We need to stop thinking about this in terms of right or left along an x axis. They are both beholden to the capitalist economic machine that exploits poor and POC and benefits UC and UMC whites. We need a new party. I’m not going to say “moderate” or “centrist” because then we are still stuck on the x axis with no real change. Dems just used causes to gain support but did not really do anything to transform the position and power of workers and families.

However, an effective third party for Workers and Families, needs to focus on real economic issues and not get involved in things like extreme gender ideology or abortion positions. And it needs to not be led by people who live in bubbles and love echo chambers.

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Anonymous wrote:NP. I am one of the rare Democrats who correctly predicted Trump’s win in spring of 2016 and again in 2024.

What OP is getting at is directionally correct (the disillusionment with the status quo, for rise of populism) but where I think she is wrong is that as of yet, I don’t see that somewhat leftward populist shift reflecting in national election outcomes. The critical voters that Democrats need in swing states do not trust the Democratic Party at all, and certainly don’t see Democrats as any sort of “good guy.”

Democrats have an enormous trust hole to dig themselves out of before they can win national elections again. The voters they need see them as liars right now.

I am watching a few Democratic candidates around the country who show promise, although I think a party that relies on the lightning in a bottle that was Obama is ultimately doomed. But the situation isn’t entirely hopeless. Someone who can capitalize on what OP is observing without being tainted by the deep trust issues the party has would have a good shot.

I’m not as pessimistic. To be cynical, there are only two national parties, and always will be. Even if people distrust Democrats (and I’m not sure that’s true), they’ll still vote blue in order to to kick out the vastly more unpopular Trump.

PP here. Why on earth do you think Trump is more unpopular than the Democrats? There is no polling that shows that now. Polls now show Trump is unpopular but the Democratic Party is even more unpopular.

And I don’t know how you can’t see how distrusted the Democrats are at this point, but this is the same smug complacency that lost the presidency in 2024. I find it incredibly frustrating, because if you’d just open your eyes (where you refers to Democrats more generally), maybe we’d have a shot at winning again.

Trump is losing all demographics in polling right now except gen x. And he keeps digging himself in a bigger hole everyday with his crazy, erratic tweets, alienating us further from our allies, implementing very unpopular policies, etc, etc!

Do not see that helping Rs in the mid terms and beyond.

How do you figure?


Job approval for congressional Democrats hits all-time low: ‘Flat out terrible’
July 17, MSN

The job approval rating for congressional Democrats has plunged to another all-time low, with fewer than 2 in 10 Americans happy with their work on Capitol Hill.

Only 19% of registered voters approve of the way Democrats in Congress are handling their job, a Quinnipiac University Poll released Wednesday found.

The dismal rating for congressional Dems is the lowest ever recorded by the pollster, which first began asking the question in 2009.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/job-approval-for-congressional-democrats-hits-all-time-low-flat-out-terrible/ar-AA1IKeYG

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Anonymous wrote:NP. I am one of the rare Democrats who correctly predicted Trump’s win in spring of 2016 and again in 2024.

What OP is getting at is directionally correct (the disillusionment with the status quo, for rise of populism) but where I think she is wrong is that as of yet, I don’t see that somewhat leftward populist shift reflecting in national election outcomes. The critical voters that Democrats need in swing states do not trust the Democratic Party at all, and certainly don’t see Democrats as any sort of “good guy.”

Democrats have an enormous trust hole to dig themselves out of before they can win national elections again. The voters they need see them as liars right now.

I am watching a few Democratic candidates around the country who show promise, although I think a party that relies on the lightning in a bottle that was Obama is ultimately doomed. But the situation isn’t entirely hopeless. Someone who can capitalize on what OP is observing without being tainted by the deep trust issues the party has would have a good shot.

I’m not as pessimistic. To be cynical, there are only two national parties, and always will be. Even if people distrust Democrats (and I’m not sure that’s true), they’ll still vote blue in order to to kick out the vastly more unpopular Trump.

PP here. Why on earth do you think Trump is more unpopular than the Democrats? There is no polling that shows that now. Polls now show Trump is unpopular but the Democratic Party is even more unpopular.

And I don’t know how you can’t see how distrusted the Democrats are at this point, but this is the same smug complacency that lost the presidency in 2024. I find it incredibly frustrating, because if you’d just open your eyes (where you refers to Democrats more generally), maybe we’d have a shot at winning again.

Trump is losing all demographics in polling right now except gen x. And he keeps digging himself in a bigger hole everyday with his crazy, erratic tweets, alienating us further from our allies, implementing very unpopular policies, etc, etc!

Do not see that helping Rs in the mid terms and beyond.

Anonymous wrote:We need to stop thinking about this in terms of right or left along an x axis. They are both beholden to the capitalist economic machine that exploits poor and POC and benefits UC and UMC whites. We need a new party. I’m not going to say “moderate” or “centrist” because then we are still stuck on the x axis with no real change. Dems just used causes to gain support but did not really do anything to transform the position and power of workers and families.

However, an effective third party for Workers and Families, needs to focus on real economic issues and not get involved in things like extreme gender ideology or abortion positions. And it needs to not be led by people who live in bubbles and love echo chambers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to stop thinking about this in terms of right or left along an x axis. They are both beholden to the capitalist economic machine that exploits poor and POC and benefits UC and UMC whites. We need a new party. I’m not going to say “moderate” or “centrist” because then we are still stuck on the x axis with no real change. Dems just used causes to gain support but did not really do anything to transform the position and power of workers and families.

However, an effective third party for Workers and Families, needs to focus on real economic issues and not get involved in things like extreme gender ideology or abortion positions. And it needs to not be led by people who live in bubbles and love echo chambers.

This will never happen. Today's left is convinced that freedom and happiness are the same thing as widespread sexual deviance, and this is fundamental to their worldview. They cannot support a bunch of (in their eyes) gauche welders and pipelayers with (in their eyes) retrograde views on marriage and gender when there's the much more exciting alternative of supporting rainbow haired BIPOC disabled prostitutes. Your Marxist visions are a pipedream, pack it up my dude.

Anonymous wrote:I'm OP and I actually read through this entire thread, and pleasantly surprised that many of you actually read it and got my point. However, some obviously only read the title and the first sentence and immediately got to the conclusion that I must mean leftward shift = pro-Democrat, like Obama in 2008. That is absolutely not what I mean. The Democratic Establishment is going the way of the dinosaurs and the more they try to fight that the more they will lose. I also don't mean "liberal" or "woke." I mean anti-capitalist. Even if not outright supporting socialism, people HATE big business, Wall Street, the financial class, and increasingly, Silicon Valley and the Tech Oligarchs. So "left" might even be a misnomer since the populist right feels this way too.

Take this Washington Post article on Trump-Mamdani voters: https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/2025/07/18/donald-trump-zohran-mamdani-voters-new-york/

It's DCUM that lives in a bubble that thinks that most Americans yearn for moderate, pro-business, pro-corporate politicians. Sure, they probably want someone more moderate on immigration, law and order, trans issues. They do not want a mealy-mouth centrist when it comes to corporations. It's not even about wanting more government "handouts," they want less corporate influence on government and more importantly, less corporate "handouts." People don't believe that America is a meritocracy or that the American Dream is attainable with hard work anymore.

Anonymous wrote:We need to stop thinking about this in terms of right or left along an x axis. They are both beholden to the capitalist economic machine that exploits poor and POC and benefits UC and UMC whites. We need a new party. I’m not going to say “moderate” or “centrist” because then we are still stuck on the x axis with no real change. Dems just used causes to gain support but did not really do anything to transform the position and power of workers and families.

However, an effective third party for Workers and Families, needs to focus on real economic issues and not get involved in things like extreme gender ideology or abortion positions. And it needs to not be led by people who live in bubbles and love echo chambers.

Anonymous wrote:We need to stop thinking about this in terms of right or left along an x axis. They are both beholden to the capitalist economic machine that exploits poor and POC and benefits UC and UMC whites. We need a new party. I’m not going to say “moderate” or “centrist” because then we are still stuck on the x axis with no real change. Dems just used causes to gain support but did not really do anything to transform the position and power of workers and families.

However, an effective third party for Workers and Families, needs to focus on real economic issues and not get involved in things like extreme gender ideology or abortion positions. And it needs to not be led by people who live in bubbles and love echo chambers.

Anonymous wrote:I'm 95% sure the House will flip in 2026.

I'm 50-50 on the Senate, but it's possible if Susan Collins retires and Roy Cooper runs for Tom Tillis's seat in NC.

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Anonymous wrote:I am not seeing this OP. Be cautious you are not in an echo chamber and missing a silent majority.

FWIW I would vote for anyone moderate.

+1 I think most would.

DP. No they wouldn’t. That’s how Trump keeps winning.

Biden campaigned as a moderate but governed as a far-left progressive. In 2024, nobody trusted the Democrats any more when they claimed to be moderate as it was obviously a lie.

How did he govern as a far left progressive? He barely did anything despite claiming he would do progressive things like universal pre-K etc. He did very, very little at all.

These people claiming that Biden was any kind of progressive are quite insane. He ruled firmed for the center while giving republicans pretty much whatever that wanted. At best we didn’t move either left or right.

Biden was off the chart progressive on the second most important issue to US voters in 2024

Biden and Democrats Priorities

And yet it is the democrats that expand immigration which allows companies to stomp on workers , and they wonder why they lose Elections . Focus on US workers first and never lose.

1.Biden refuses to mandate e-verify. there is no reason to require corporations to hire US workers. -https://www.governing.com/work/e-verify-creates-loophole-for-undocumented-workers-employers.html GOP refuses to mandate e-verify too, this is bi-partisan but for completely different reasons

2.Biden helps US companies replace US workers with cheap foreign labor by expanding H1B - https://www.axios.com/2022/01/12/h1b-visa-approval-rate-tech-biden-immigration he was also the biggest champion of unions, minimum wages, healthcare for the working class etc.

3.Biden expanded OPT to new job categories, this helps companies replace US workers with cheap foreign indentured servants - https://www.fragomen.com/insights/united-states-white-house-announces-expansion-of-stem-opt-program-and-other-initiatives-to-attract-stem-talent.html they didn't "replace" workers - US born workers were not available, so the country needed to import the talent

F1 - Legal system requires F-1 students to remain with employer for approximately 7-12 years

4.Biden proposes to create brand new W-1 visa with unlimited Green Cards, because we mythically don't have enough workers in the US, we devalued a master with H1B, and now we will devalue PhDs with W-1 visas - https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2022/01/27/house-adds-game-changing-visas-for-immigrant-startups-and-phds/?sh=500faa1810be we don't have enough workers - there have been so many un filled jobs the last 10 years...

5. Biden allowed millions of illegal aliens to flood the country. Pelosi and Schumer were in cahoots on this plan . He didn't have the same tools Trump had, and didn't want to be an authoritarian the way Trump is. He also supported the bi-partisan immigration reform bill that gave the GOP 85% of what it wanted. Why didn't Trump support that bill? Why hasn't the GOP congress passed it?

Anonymous wrote:I'm 95% sure the House will flip in 2026.

I'm 50-50 on the Senate, but it's possible if Susan Collins retires and Roy Cooper runs for Tom Tillis's seat in NC.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I am not seeing this OP. Be cautious you are not in an echo chamber and missing a silent majority.

FWIW I would vote for anyone moderate.

+1 I think most would.

DP. No they wouldn’t. That’s how Trump keeps winning.

Biden campaigned as a moderate but governed as a far-left progressive. In 2024, nobody trusted the Democrats any more when they claimed to be moderate as it was obviously a lie.

How did he govern as a far left progressive? He barely did anything despite claiming he would do progressive things like universal pre-K etc. He did very, very little at all.

These people claiming that Biden was any kind of progressive are quite insane. He ruled firmed for the center while giving republicans pretty much whatever that wanted. At best we didn’t move either left or right.

Biden was off the chart progressive on the second most important issue to US voters in 2024

Biden and Democrats Priorities

And yet it is the democrats that expand immigration which allows companies to stomp on workers , and they wonder why they lose Elections . Focus on US workers first and never lose.

1.Biden refuses to mandate e-verify. there is no reason to require corporations to hire US workers. -https://www.governing.com/work/e-verify-creates-loophole-for-undocumented-workers-employers.html

2.Biden helps US companies replace US workers with cheap foreign labor by expanding H1B - https://www.axios.com/2022/01/12/h1b-visa-approval-rate-tech-biden-immigration

3.Biden expanded OPT to new job categories, this helps companies replace US workers with cheap foreign indentured servants - https://www.fragomen.com/insights/united-states-white-house-announces-expansion-of-stem-opt-program-and-other-initiatives-to-attract-stem-talent.html

F1 - Legal system requires F-1 students to remain with employer for approximately 7-12 years

4.Biden proposes to create brand new W-1 visa with unlimited Green Cards, because we mythically don't have enough workers in the US, we devalued a master with H1B, and now we will devalue PhDs with W-1 visas - https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2022/01/27/house-adds-game-changing-visas-for-immigrant-startups-and-phds/?sh=500faa1810be

5. Biden allowed millions of illegal aliens to flood the country. Pelosi and Schumer were in cahoots on this plan .

Ah so you don’t know what progressive is. All of this benefits big business by supplying cheap labor. There is nothing remotely progressive about anything you listed. Also Schumer and Pelosi are not progressives!

That PP is ridiculous. I don’t want to hear another MAGA talk about e-verify ever again! Did they bury their heads when it was found a small fraction of the felon’s properties used e-verify and after that expose came out he quietly dismantled the program. MAGA is delusional.

The felon has used illegal immigrants his entire career and does not want it to go away, nor do his friends after their recent ballyhooing.

Democrats need to become the party of labor again.

Why is this so hard for urban elites to understand?