How many housekeepers at Trump’s hotels are immigrants? 99.99%

Americans won’t do those jobs. It’s true. Ameeicans don’t want to be housekeepers or farm hands. They think it’s degrading

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys know what substitute teachers are paid? $18/hour and no benefits. In Loudoun County, a supposedly wealthy county. I became a sub after being a longtime volunteer because I like the people at my specific school and my kids were getting older. My husband makes almost $1M a year so I basically view it as still volunteer, but they need the help and it gives me something to do during the school day, with no obligation other times.

My 17 year old actually makes more than I do food-running at a local nice restaurant because she is “tipped out” each night based on receipts. She makes $20-25/hour. But she mostly works Fri and Sat nights and she likes it.

My point is - paying people more to pick strawberries isn’t going to make them want to pick strawberries. People are willing to work for less for the right job.

People with husband’s who make a million a year are willing to work for less for the right job. It’s a very privileged position to be in. A single mom with mouths to feed would not choose to substitute teach for $18 an hour of a food service job offers $25.

She won't pick strawberries for $44/hour either. That's what we are talking about.

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys know what substitute teachers are paid? $18/hour and no benefits. In Loudoun County, a supposedly wealthy county. I became a sub after being a longtime volunteer because I like the people at my specific school and my kids were getting older. My husband makes almost $1M a year so I basically view it as still volunteer, but they need the help and it gives me something to do during the school day, with no obligation other times.

My 17 year old actually makes more than I do food-running at a local nice restaurant because she is “tipped out” each night based on receipts. She makes $20-25/hour. But she mostly works Fri and Sat nights and she likes it.

My point is - paying people more to pick strawberries isn’t going to make them want to pick strawberries. People are willing to work for less for the right job.

People with husband’s who make a million a year are willing to work for less for the right job. It’s a very privileged position to be in. A single mom with mouths to feed would not choose to substitute teach for $18 an hour of a food service job offers $25.

Anonymous wrote:We shouldn’t be giving people welfare of any kind while there are jobs they could be doing out in the fields. And yes they should be forced to move out of the city if that’s where the work is. I’d rather pay people a little taxpayer money on top of whatever farmers can pay to have them work rather than just give them that money in welfare payments to sit around. Only American citizens though.

No tax payer money. That would just subsidize business. This is basically what Walmart was doing. You would have some cunning business men figuring out how to keep people perpetually unemployed so they could use the welfare payments instead of paying their workers fair market wages. They'd call us lazy to boot.

We should start a list of occupations Democrats don't believe in paying fair market rates in the free world. Strawberry picking and software engineering are clearly ineligible for free market rates.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t understand systemic issues and it shows.

OP here. What’s that supposed to mean?

I’ve enjoyed reading the comments here. Some are eye opening and some are completely predictable.

“No OP, you just don’t get it. We need this exploitable cheap labor because we have always dependent upon it. We need it for capitalism and prosperity”

LOL. Of course capitalists love exploitable cheap labor. And UMC folks who love that their dollars stretch further with exploitable cheap labor and they can spend less on groceries and childcare and more on vacations and home renovations.

My beef is about self identifying liberals and progressives insisting we MUST HAVE this cheap exploitable labor. Pick a lane!!

IMO we do should not end immigration, and we should not restrict immigration only to wealthy people.

But we do need to restrict the pipeline in order to protect wages at the bottom.

Pick a lane? Well, the strawberries aren't going to pick themselves, and clearly Americans aren't going to do it, and there is no current, mass produced technology available to farms to do it. So that leaves a choice of either bringing in labor to do it, importing strawberries (probably also picked by exploited labor, possibly even worse than those who would have done it in the US), or doing without strawberries. What would you have us do, just stop doing all of it?

Seems to me the better solution would be for you to stop pointing fingers and get on board with expanding visas to fill the obvious labor need. I believe we need to expand visas where actually needed. But in other areas like tech where we DO have Americans who want to do that work, we need to be promoting our own students and grads rather than undercutting them and dial back on those visas. Why is this so hard for for everyone on the right to understand?

Americans aren’t doing it because we give them other options - like not working and collecting benefits anyway. If we take away those benefits, people will do the jobs they need to do.

And remember that there are plenty of first or second generation Americans who are poor and still have a good work ethic. Not every worker out there now is illegal.

We shouldn’t be giving people welfare of any kind while there are jobs they could be doing out in the fields. And yes they should be forced to move out of the city if that’s where the work is. I’d rather pay people a little taxpayer money on top of whatever farmers can pay to have them work rather than just give them that money in welfare payments to sit around. Only American citizens though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t understand systemic issues and it shows.

OP here. What’s that supposed to mean?

I’ve enjoyed reading the comments here. Some are eye opening and some are completely predictable.

“No OP, you just don’t get it. We need this exploitable cheap labor because we have always dependent upon it. We need it for capitalism and prosperity”

LOL. Of course capitalists love exploitable cheap labor. And UMC folks who love that their dollars stretch further with exploitable cheap labor and they can spend less on groceries and childcare and more on vacations and home renovations.

My beef is about self identifying liberals and progressives insisting we MUST HAVE this cheap exploitable labor. Pick a lane!!

IMO we do should not end immigration, and we should not restrict immigration only to wealthy people.

But we do need to restrict the pipeline in order to protect wages at the bottom.

Pick a lane? Well, the strawberries aren't going to pick themselves, and clearly Americans aren't going to do it, and there is no current, mass produced technology available to farms to do it. So that leaves a choice of either bringing in labor to do it, importing strawberries (probably also picked by exploited labor, possibly even worse than those who would have done it in the US), or doing without strawberries. What would you have us do, just stop doing all of it?

Seems to me the better solution would be for you to stop pointing fingers and get on board with expanding visas to fill the obvious labor need. I believe we need to expand visas where actually needed. But in other areas like tech where we DO have Americans who want to do that work, we need to be promoting our own students and grads rather than undercutting them and dial back on those visas. Why is this so hard for for everyone on the right to understand?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a cultural truth that Americans feel superior in ways that they shouldn't. They simply won't be picking fruit in 100 degree heat if they can collect unemployment. As poor as a poor American us you need to see what poor us like in India and around the world. Mississippi poor or whatever southern state poor is still not that poor.

Working in a steel mill or coal mining is not the same as washing dishes and farming in the heat. It's just culturally different I can't explain it. As an immigrant however, it's something I feel. Not sure that the question of labor by illegal immigrants is about the ability to substitute them out by mass American labor force when you understand this truth. Not suggesting poor won't work but that the kind of work they may accept simply is if a certain kind.

This why don't like "high skilled" immigrants. They tend to be from upper echelons of society in these other countries and are quite fine with crushing people's souls. It's like being in the cubicles in grad school and hearing the Indian CS students talk about the "other castes".

I know the rich tech folk and California Democrats like the caste system, they brought the Indians here to implement their tech caste with their tiered schemes, but I don't like it.

You keep talking about "rich California Democrat tech folks" yet it's many right wing technocrats like Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, David Sacks, Marc Andreesen, Peter Thiel along with Trump himself, Marco Rubio, Don Bacon and other prominent Republicans who have pushed hard to expand H1 and the "caste" system, even nodding to India's caste system by referring to it as a meritocracy.

Do you guys know what substitute teachers are paid? $18/hour and no benefits. In Loudoun County, a supposedly wealthy county. I became a sub after being a longtime volunteer because I like the people at my specific school and my kids were getting older. My husband makes almost $1M a year so I basically view it as still volunteer, but they need the help and it gives me something to do during the school day, with no obligation other times.

My 17 year old actually makes more than I do food-running at a local nice restaurant because she is “tipped out” each night based on receipts. She makes $20-25/hour. But she mostly works Fri and Sat nights and she likes it.

My point is - paying people more to pick strawberries isn’t going to make them want to pick strawberries. People are willing to work for less for the right job.

Anonymous wrote:You don’t understand systemic issues and it shows.

OP here. What’s that supposed to mean?

I’ve enjoyed reading the comments here. Some are eye opening and some are completely predictable.

“No OP, you just don’t get it. We need this exploitable cheap labor because we have always dependent upon it. We need it for capitalism and prosperity”

LOL. Of course capitalists love exploitable cheap labor. And UMC folks who love that their dollars stretch further with exploitable cheap labor and they can spend less on groceries and childcare and more on vacations and home renovations.

My beef is about self identifying liberals and progressives insisting we MUST HAVE this cheap exploitable labor. Pick a lane!!

IMO we do should not end immigration, and we should not restrict immigration only to wealthy people.

But we do need to restrict the pipeline in order to protect wages at the bottom.

Anonymous wrote:So OP, have you put in your job application to go pick strawberries? You say Americans will do those jobs, so you should be the first to lead the way. Hop to it.

Have you filled out your application to be in the Democrat primary? They're looking for the next loser.

So OP, have you put in your job application to go pick strawberries? You say Americans will do those jobs, so you should be the first to lead the way. Hop to it.

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t a great argument, I agree. It is also a very true statement.

+1
It is true for some sectors and some areas though. The farms are not generally located in places with enough native born low skill workers for them to use local help. It’s just not there. I work for an ag sector that uses a lot of immigrant labor and the farmers pay pretty high wages but simply cannot get Americans to want to do those jobs.

It’s different if you’re talking about other jobs in more urban areas. For instance we need 0 more h1B visas right now. The CS market is flooded and AI is shedding jobs. Cxl all the H1B visas and you will fix part of the problem there.

Anonymous wrote:It's a cultural truth that Americans feel superior in ways that they shouldn't. They simply won't be picking fruit in 100 degree heat if they can collect unemployment. As poor as a poor American us you need to see what poor us like in India and around the world. Mississippi poor or whatever southern state poor is still not that poor.

Working in a steel mill or coal mining is not the same as washing dishes and farming in the heat. It's just culturally different I can't explain it. As an immigrant however, it's something I feel. Not sure that the question of labor by illegal immigrants is about the ability to substitute them out by mass American labor force when you understand this truth. Not suggesting poor won't work but that the kind of work they may accept simply is if a certain kind.

This why don't like "high skilled" immigrants. They tend to be from upper echelons of society in these other countries and are quite fine with crushing people's souls. It's like being in the cubicles in grad school and hearing the Indian CS students talk about the "other castes".

I know the rich tech folk and California Democrats like the caste system, they brought the Indians here to implement their tech caste with their tiered schemes, but I don't like it.