Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they could pair two regions together for certain programs where it would make more sense to have 3 programs countywide than 6? How well would that work with this set of regions, or would you need to change the regions to make that work? Which regions would you pair together? 5&6 is already pretty close to the existing sending schools for upcounty programs, right?

What about 1 with 2, 3 with 4, 5 with 6? Could do three high-level SMCS magnets-- keep Poolesville (for 5 & 6) and Blair (for 1 & 2) and then add one new one for the schools in regions 3 & 4.

That actually doesn't look too bad. So it's kind of divided by lower county, with Whitman being kind of the outlier but not too different from how Poolesville is usually on the outer edge, miiddle county and upper county.

Even if they keep the current proposed six regions, I think they can mix up regions five and six a little bit to balance it out. The large part of Crown basically used to go to Quince Orchard. And Quince Orchard is often grouped with Northwest. So they'd probably be able to swap some schools between the two regions and still make them contiguous areas with no islands.

But it still goes back to I don't think these groupings will really matter. Where unless they put some really outstanding programs in a school, I don't really see many students leaving their home school for that program. For example is Argyle the middle school in Silver Spring with a magnet program? I remember several families looking into it and visiting it during it's open house. But decided it wasn't worth going to over their home school. Then the number of students that do choose to go to another school for a special program, won't really make that much of a change in anything at the school. Like maybe one or two classrooms of students in a high school?

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if they could pair two regions together for certain programs where it would make more sense to have 3 programs countywide than 6? How well would that work with this set of regions, or would you need to change the regions to make that work? Which regions would you pair together? 5&6 is already pretty close to the existing sending schools for upcounty programs, right?

What about 1 with 2, 3 with 4, 5 with 6? Could do three high-level SMCS magnets-- keep Poolesville (for 5 & 6) and Blair (for 1 & 2) and then add one new one for the schools in regions 3 & 4.

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Anonymous wrote:Here are the regional HS programs:

Medical Science
Clinical Healthcare
Medicine & Pharmacy
Engineering and
Robotics
Engineering and
Construction
Future Teachers
Academy
International
Interdisciplinary Studies
Global Languages
Visual Art and Design
Performing Arts
Communications &
Media
Law and Criminal
Justice
Leadership and
Advocacy
Finance and Business
Entrepreneurship
Information Technology
Cybersecurity
Data Science & Analytics

This is an insane list, IMO. Most of these are professional programs that don’t belong in high school. How will they be spread across the 6 regions? What if the one you want isn’t in your region? They’re certainly not proposing putting each of these 15(?) programs in all 6 regions, are they?

I agree that the focus on choosing a narrow career/high school focus for 13 year olds is bizarre. I was undecided as a college freshman!

Yeah and many people change careers and majors several times.

I didn't appreciate it back then and probably wanted more of the technical school type of training they're offering. And didn't want to waste my time or money on things that wouldn't directly help me get a job.

But now appreciate how teaching someone to press a button is different then having someone fully understand what the button does and how it works.

Part of education is to gain critical thinking skills and general awareness.

It's the trend now to make students career ready. And it's kind of crazy to me to see the professional certs that some high school students are working towards or the type of questions they'd ask adults, like really gearing towards a specific path in a career.

Most people go into the family business or into careers with low education requirements (AA degree). Those students need a cheap, quick college education to get ready to work, and to redo it if they need to switch career paths.

Some families are in the elite SES business.

Like I said, I've been there and done that. Kind of have regrets about it in some ways and is why I want my kids to focus on quality of education overall instead of just getting a paycheck.

My main issue is that it may pigeonhole some students or let them take the quick way out. When they don't really have a broader view of what the options are. And unless the overall market changes, people taking this path will hit a wall in their career due to not having a four year degree or grad degree. Where I've seen some people who have been at some more old fashioned/traditional places for 20 or 30 years straight out of high school not be considered for management opportunities due to not having a degree. Doesn't matter how much people like them there, they can't even get their application past HR due to not having the qualifications necessary. So they'll always just be a worker or a button pusher.

The board members also touched upon another concern, where you don't know if some of these paths may eventually become obsolete.

But see some benefits of it as well. It's great to be able to get a well paying job at such a young age. And they'll still be taking the other regular courses for a well rounded curriculum.

I think these programs are like take 2-3 course in your interest and rest of course courses like everyone else. If you change your interest, you do specialization in undergrad/grad level. Taking 2-3 extra courses is not going to pigeonhold anyone, Anyione will still needs to do specialization later if they want that field. HS should be still about getting a well rounded education.

If it’s only 2-3 courses, then why bus kids around for 4 years? Is it worth so much investment?
This regional plan still sounds like a glorified busing plan to me.

+1. That is a very serious point. If *most* of a student’s schedule is regular academic requirements like English and math that should be equally available at all schools, how many schedule slots are even available for specialty programs and is this whole round robin “worth” it.

100% agree that they are just moving chairs around the deck. I see nothing about providing academic instruction appropriate to kid's abilities.

Anonymous wrote:As others mentioned, the presentation that MCPS used to show the distribution of high performing students was flawed to begin with by using students with a 4.0. Where an A is meaningless if it doesn't take into account the rigors of the course.

They should identify students as high performing if they met any of the following criteria for the given school year:

-met the MAP benchmark
-earned a 3 or 4 proficiency level in the MCAP ELA or Math test
-earned 3 or higher in any AP exam
-earned 4 or higher in any IB exam
-earned 530 or higher in math and 480 or higher in the ERBW in the SAT exam
-earn a 21 or higher in the ACT
-earn a 31 or higher in the AFQT for the ASVAB

This would cover more grade levels and be based on something more standardized.

And the high school level standards above are what MSDE checks to see if a student completed a well rounded curriculum.

Just a correction, the MCAP and MAP standards should be based on tests taken in the given school year. The high school related criteria can be based off of if they met the criteria at anytime in the past or the current school year.

As others mentioned, the presentation that MCPS used to show the distribution of high performing students was flawed to begin with by using students with a 4.0. Where an A is meaningless if it doesn't take into account the rigors of the course.

They should identify students as high performing if they met any of the following criteria for the given school year:

-met the MAP benchmark
-earned a 3 or 4 proficiency level in the MCAP ELA or Math test
-earned 3 or higher in any AP exam
-earned 4 or higher in any IB exam
-earned 530 or higher in math and 480 or higher in the ERBW in the SAT exam
-earn a 21 or higher in the ACT
-earn a 31 or higher in the AFQT for the ASVAB

This would cover more grade levels and be based on something more standardized.

And the high school level standards above are what MSDE checks to see if a student completed a well rounded curriculum.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Region 1 doesn't look too bad to me.

BCC is supposed to be kind of decent right? And there have often been positive posts about Einstein.

I think the main questions would be how Blair looks if they removed the county wide magnet program. And I'm not entirely sure of Northwood (as in I don't think I've heard too much about it. Know some people with siblings that graduated from there but that's it.)

Based on test scores/FARMs rates, I would say region 5 looks the most questionable. Northwest is an average/above average school. The rest of the schools are projected to have at least 35% FARMS, including the new Crown HS. With Watkins Mill over 60% FARMS and Gaithersburg HS hovering close to there. Option 3 has Seneca Valley hovering around it's current 35% FARMS but the rest of the options has it around 45%.

MCPS overall average is 44% FARMS. Totally reasonable for a grouping of high schools to be at that average. Parents who are shocked by it are a symptom of how divided the system currently is and how out of touch some parents are.

This particular grouping is always at least 46% FARMS when you add all the schools together and look at the four current realignment options.
Current: 46.8%
Option 1: 47.11%
Option 2: 47.15%
Option 3: 46.19%
Option 4: 48.68%

I haven't worked out all the other proposed regions yet.

If the overall MCPS average is 44%, this is very close to it. Unless we see a region that is sub-34 or over-54 (or something like that), it's probably the best that can be done with some manageable regional proximity. Hopefully, all the regions end up averaging in the 40s. (Really hopefully, the overall FARMS rate decreases, and not for lack of identification, but with the way society is going, both nationally and locally, I'm not holding my breath.)

The problem with averages is that it's not really spread out and you have the extremes balancing each other out.

Not all the schools are represented in the boundary studies.

But on mdreportcard, it says the FARMS rate is about 41% for MCPS and 40% if you limit to high schools.

Looking at the schools in boundary studies with a current FARMS rate of over 40% the schools are:

Blair 51.4
Gaithersburg HS 53.7
Kennedy 55.1
Northwood 50.8
Seneca Valley 47.2
Watkins Mill 54
Wheaton 62.7

According to MD Report Card, which may have different rules or source for FARMS, the schools not in the boundary studies and a FARMS population of more than 40% are:
Blake 54.8
Magruder 49.3
Paint Branch 59.2
Rockville 48.9
Sherwood 21.6
Springbrook 63.6

So Region 2 has three of the schools above, with Sherwood balancing it out. These schools aren't in any of the boundary studies. So we're looking at about a 49.8 percent FARMS rate

Region 5 has three schools above as well with Northwest and maybe Crown to balance it out. So let's say Crown has the same FARMS rate as Northwest the FARMS rate for this group would be 44.46, which we're saying is the average.

But then no other region either has this number of high FARM schools or has very low FARMS schools to balance it out.

For example:

Region 1: 34.34, with Blair's numbers probably changing if they remove the countywide magnet program

Region 3: 38.775, and this is counting Woodward's FARMS numbers to be the same as Wheatons 62.7 but likely isn't forecasted to be this high in any of the current proposed options

Region 4: 37.02

Region 6: 28.82, with Quince Orchard's numbers actually going to be lower with ten percent of it's FARMS population going to Crown

So while the overall average of FARMS in MCPS might be about 44 percent, only regions 2 and 5, looks like they'll have an average FARMS rate of above 40%

Regions 3 and 4 are a little bit over 35 percent, not quite 40 percent. So would consider this the average.

Region 1 is relatively low, below 35 percent.

And region 6, with the lowest at 28.8 percent and likely will go lower with Crown taking some of Quince Orchard's FARMS students.

So the FARMS distribution isn't that spread out across all the regions evenly and you still have disparity in the underserved areas, such as the East county and some of the Gaithersburg area

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Region 1 doesn't look too bad to me.

BCC is supposed to be kind of decent right? And there have often been positive posts about Einstein.

I think the main questions would be how Blair looks if they removed the county wide magnet program. And I'm not entirely sure of Northwood (as in I don't think I've heard too much about it. Know some people with siblings that graduated from there but that's it.)

Based on test scores/FARMs rates, I would say region 5 looks the most questionable. Northwest is an average/above average school. The rest of the schools are projected to have at least 35% FARMS, including the new Crown HS. With Watkins Mill over 60% FARMS and Gaithersburg HS hovering close to there. Option 3 has Seneca Valley hovering around it's current 35% FARMS but the rest of the options has it around 45%.

MCPS overall average is 44% FARMS. Totally reasonable for a grouping of high schools to be at that average. Parents who are shocked by it are a symptom of how divided the system currently is and how out of touch some parents are.

This particular grouping is always at least 46% FARMS when you add all the schools together and look at the four current realignment options.
Current: 46.8%
Option 1: 47.11%
Option 2: 47.15%
Option 3: 46.19%
Option 4: 48.68%

I haven't worked out all the other proposed regions yet.

If the overall MCPS average is 44%, this is very close to it. Unless we see a region that is sub-34 or over-54 (or something like that), it's probably the best that can be done with some manageable regional proximity. Hopefully, all the regions end up averaging in the 40s. (Really hopefully, the overall FARMS rate decreases, and not for lack of identification, but with the way society is going, both nationally and locally, I'm not holding my breath.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Region 1 doesn't look too bad to me.

BCC is supposed to be kind of decent right? And there have often been positive posts about Einstein.

I think the main questions would be how Blair looks if they removed the county wide magnet program. And I'm not entirely sure of Northwood (as in I don't think I've heard too much about it. Know some people with siblings that graduated from there but that's it.)

Based on test scores/FARMs rates, I would say region 5 looks the most questionable. Northwest is an average/above average school. The rest of the schools are projected to have at least 35% FARMS, including the new Crown HS. With Watkins Mill over 60% FARMS and Gaithersburg HS hovering close to there. Option 3 has Seneca Valley hovering around it's current 35% FARMS but the rest of the options has it around 45%.

MCPS overall average is 44% FARMS. Totally reasonable for a grouping of high schools to be at that average. Parents who are shocked by it are a symptom of how divided the system currently is and how out of touch some parents are.

This particular grouping is always at least 46% FARMS when you add all the schools together and look at the four current realignment options.
Current: 46.8%
Option 1: 47.11%
Option 2: 47.15%
Option 3: 46.19%
Option 4: 48.68%

I haven't worked out all the other proposed regions yet.

I wonder if they could pair two regions together for certain programs where it would make more sense to have 3 programs countywide than 6? How well would that work with this set of regions, or would you need to change the regions to make that work? Which regions would you pair together? 5&6 is already pretty close to the existing sending schools for upcounty programs, right?

Anonymous wrote:Looks like they put the worst schools specifically to punish Whitman

Whitman gets Blair. They are winners as usual!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like they put the worst schools specifically to punish Whitman

lol and I’m over here thinking I’m happy for my kids to go to any of those schools but Whitman

🙄

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Region 1 doesn't look too bad to me.

BCC is supposed to be kind of decent right? And there have often been positive posts about Einstein.

I think the main questions would be how Blair looks if they removed the county wide magnet program. And I'm not entirely sure of Northwood (as in I don't think I've heard too much about it. Know some people with siblings that graduated from there but that's it.)

Based on test scores/FARMs rates, I would say region 5 looks the most questionable. Northwest is an average/above average school. The rest of the schools are projected to have at least 35% FARMS, including the new Crown HS. With Watkins Mill over 60% FARMS and Gaithersburg HS hovering close to there. Option 3 has Seneca Valley hovering around it's current 35% FARMS but the rest of the options has it around 45%.

MCPS overall average is 44% FARMS. Totally reasonable for a grouping of high schools to be at that average. Parents who are shocked by it are a symptom of how divided the system currently is and how out of touch some parents are.

Using FARMS rate is just a nice way of trying to point out why a school isn't good, while trying not to offend anyone. The issue with region 5 is it groups the bottom ranked MCPS High Schools according to US News, which probably corresponds with FARMs rates together:
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/maryland/districts/montgomery-county-public-schools-104047

Seneca Valley, Gaithersburg and Watkins Mill make up three of the bottom four regular pubic MCPS high schools according to the rankings.

Northwest might be the strongest out of the group but it's not W school level in terms of rankings, test scores, FARMS rate, etc. Crown at best might be about Northwest level.

So this region doesn't look that balanced compared to some of the other regions.

But until more details come out, I don't really see the region groupings being that big of a deal and changing which schools a large group of students would go to.

This isn't necessarily the best way of looking at things and doesn't take into account the new schools and how schools would be affected after any changes are made. But the average US News ranking, based on current rankings, for each region is below:

Region three: Winston Churchill in Potomac, Walter Johnson in Bethesda, Charles W. Woodward in Rockville, and Wheaton: 7

Region one: Bethesda-Chevy Chase and Walt Whitman in Bethesda, and Montgomery Blair, Albert Einstein and Northwood in Silver Spring: 10.4 (10.25 without Blair)

Region six: Clarksburg, Damascus, Poolesville, and Quince Orchard in Gaithersburg: 11.25 (14.33 without Poolesville)

Region four: John F. Kennedy in Silver Spring, and Col. Zadok Magruder, Richard Montgomery, Rockville, and Thomas S. Wootton in Rockville: 13.4 (14.75 without RM)

Region two: James Hubert Blake and Springbrook in Silver Spring, Paint Branch in Burtonsville, and Sherwood in Sandy Spring: 16

Region five: Northwest in Germantown, and Crown, Gaithersburg and Seneca Valley in Germantown; and Watkins Mill: 19.75

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Region 4 is basically the IB school region.

and 3/5 of the schools in that region are literally IB's.

And that means that 2/3 IB programs would be replaced with something else. I can't imagine they would offer more than one program per region.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Region 1 doesn't look too bad to me.

BCC is supposed to be kind of decent right? And there have often been positive posts about Einstein.

I think the main questions would be how Blair looks if they removed the county wide magnet program. And I'm not entirely sure of Northwood (as in I don't think I've heard too much about it. Know some people with siblings that graduated from there but that's it.)

Based on test scores/FARMs rates, I would say region 5 looks the most questionable. Northwest is an average/above average school. The rest of the schools are projected to have at least 35% FARMS, including the new Crown HS. With Watkins Mill over 60% FARMS and Gaithersburg HS hovering close to there. Option 3 has Seneca Valley hovering around it's current 35% FARMS but the rest of the options has it around 45%.

MCPS overall average is 44% FARMS. Totally reasonable for a grouping of high schools to be at that average. Parents who are shocked by it are a symptom of how divided the system currently is and how out of touch some parents are.

Using FARMS rate is just a nice way of trying to point out why a school isn't good, while trying not to offend anyone. The issue with region 5 is it groups the bottom ranked MCPS High Schools according to US News, which probably corresponds with FARMs rates together:
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/maryland/districts/montgomery-county-public-schools-104047

Seneca Valley, Gaithersburg and Watkins Mill make up three of the bottom four regular pubic MCPS high schools according to the rankings.

Northwest might be the strongest out of the group but it's not W school level in terms of rankings, test scores, FARMS rate, etc. Crown at best might be about Northwest level.

So this region doesn't look that balanced compared to some of the other regions.

But until more details come out, I don't really see the region groupings being that big of a deal and changing which schools a large group of students would go to.

Anonymous wrote:Region 1 doesn't look too bad to me.

BCC is supposed to be kind of decent right? And there have often been positive posts about Einstein.

I think the main questions would be how Blair looks if they removed the county wide magnet program. And I'm not entirely sure of Northwood (as in I don't think I've heard too much about it. Know some people with siblings that graduated from there but that's it.)

Based on test scores/FARMs rates, I would say region 5 looks the most questionable. Northwest is an average/above average school. The rest of the schools are projected to have at least 35% FARMS, including the new Crown HS. With Watkins Mill over 60% FARMS and Gaithersburg HS hovering close to there. Option 3 has Seneca Valley hovering around it's current 35% FARMS but the rest of the options has it around 45%.

MCPS overall average is 44% FARMS. Totally reasonable for a grouping of high schools to be at that average. Parents who are shocked by it are a symptom of how divided the system currently is and how out of touch some parents are.