Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine went TO to William and Mary.His best friend entered with a 1540 SAT. His friend has been struggling and mine is is doing well with a Business Analytics major and a time consuming arts minor. There is a lot more to it than scores.

+
My kids are doing just fine, even without top SAT scores.
They worked hard in high school, had well-balanced extracurriculars and leadership roles.
Their GPA was strong, and they took a rigorous course load. They are all attending selective colleges.

I believe success isn't defined by the SAT score—it's the grit and diligence that bring out the best in you.

Isn’t SAT an indicator of grit and diligence (the more you study, the better your do—?)

The logic is this:
Yes, there can be kids with grit and diligence who have high SAT scores, but not every low SAT score means a lack of grit and diligence, and not every high SAT score reflects grit and diligence.

Therefore, what defines your success is not your SAT score, but your grit and diligence.

Every kid I know who’s done well on the test has true grit. It’s not an easy test. People love to say it is, but it isn’t - it takes a lot of studying + the academic foundation. Some kids do have grit but do poorly and it’s because they don’t have the academic foundation. I agree it’s not an intelligence test.

I’ve seen a student with high scores but a poor GPA—definitely a smart kid, but he didn’t put much effort into his schoolwork.
He could be an outlier, but he fits into the category of “high scores but lacking diligence.

Perhaps he is taking more advanced courses that affect his GPA. Perhaps he is heavily involved in student activities or sports. Why, when you talk about GPA, the bar becomes 4.0 or perfect score? Whereas when you discuss SAT, the test score suddenly becomes non-important?

Or maybe he needs to work to support the family. Or he is neurodiverse so he couldn't focus so much on the classwork.

The most troubling issue with TO lovers is they use double standards in judging a kid.

Test score must not be a result of grit and diligence (or whatever standard they see fit).
GPA must be a result of grit and diligence.

This artificial dichotomy simply just don't follow the logic.

At the policy level, if test optional is okay, then gpa optional is also okay.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine went TO to William and Mary.His best friend entered with a 1540 SAT. His friend has been struggling and mine is is doing well with a Business Analytics major and a time consuming arts minor. There is a lot more to it than scores.

+
My kids are doing just fine, even without top SAT scores.
They worked hard in high school, had well-balanced extracurriculars and leadership roles.
Their GPA was strong, and they took a rigorous course load. They are all attending selective colleges.

I believe success isn't defined by the SAT score—it's the grit and diligence that bring out the best in you.

Isn’t SAT an indicator of grit and diligence (the more you study, the better your do—?)

The logic is this:
Yes, there can be kids with grit and diligence who have high SAT scores, but not every low SAT score means a lack of grit and diligence, and not every high SAT score reflects grit and diligence.

Therefore, what defines your success is not your SAT score, but your grit and diligence.

Every kid I know who’s done well on the test has true grit. It’s not an easy test. People love to say it is, but it isn’t - it takes a lot of studying + the academic foundation. Some kids do have grit but do poorly and it’s because they don’t have the academic foundation. I agree it’s not an intelligence test.

I’ve seen a student with high scores but a poor GPA—definitely a smart kid, but he didn’t put much effort into his schoolwork.
He could be an outlier, but he fits into the category of “high scores but lacking diligence.

Perhaps he is taking more advanced courses that affect his GPA. Perhaps he is heavily involved in student activities or sports. Why, when you talk about GPA, the bar becomes 4.0 or perfect score? Whereas when you discuss SAT, the test score suddenly becomes non-important?

Or maybe he needs to work to support the family. Or he is neurodiverse so he couldn't focus so much on the classwork.

Sure, if the course was rigorous and he gave his full effort but still ended up with a low GPA, then he’ll probably do just fine in life. The ones who really have a diligence issue are the “slackers".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine went TO to William and Mary.His best friend entered with a 1540 SAT. His friend has been struggling and mine is is doing well with a Business Analytics major and a time consuming arts minor. There is a lot more to it than scores.

+
My kids are doing just fine, even without top SAT scores.
They worked hard in high school, had well-balanced extracurriculars and leadership roles.
Their GPA was strong, and they took a rigorous course load. They are all attending selective colleges.

I believe success isn't defined by the SAT score—it's the grit and diligence that bring out the best in you.

Isn’t SAT an indicator of grit and diligence (the more you study, the better your do—?)

The logic is this:
Yes, there can be kids with grit and diligence who have high SAT scores, but not every low SAT score means a lack of grit and diligence, and not every high SAT score reflects grit and diligence.

Therefore, what defines your success is not your SAT score, but your grit and diligence.

Every kid I know who’s done well on the test has true grit. It’s not an easy test. People love to say it is, but it isn’t - it takes a lot of studying + the academic foundation. Some kids do have grit but do poorly and it’s because they don’t have the academic foundation. I agree it’s not an intelligence test.

I’ve seen a student with high scores but a poor GPA—definitely a smart kid, but he didn’t put much effort into his schoolwork.
He could be an outlier, but he fits into the category of “high scores but lacking diligence.

Perhaps he is taking more advanced courses that affect his GPA. Perhaps he is heavily involved in student activities or sports. Why, when you talk about GPA, the bar becomes 4.0 or perfect score? Whereas when you discuss SAT, the test score suddenly becomes non-important?

Or maybe he needs to work to support the family. Or he is neurodiverse so he couldn't focus so much on the classwork.

Back in my days, students with humble backgrounds (FGLI) who has a low gpa get an opportunity to prove they are capable by taking LSAT and getting a high LSAT score. Some law schools will give you scholarship based on a high score. It helps many many young aspiring lawyers fulfill their dreams.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine went TO to William and Mary.His best friend entered with a 1540 SAT. His friend has been struggling and mine is is doing well with a Business Analytics major and a time consuming arts minor. There is a lot more to it than scores.

+
My kids are doing just fine, even without top SAT scores.
They worked hard in high school, had well-balanced extracurriculars and leadership roles.
Their GPA was strong, and they took a rigorous course load. They are all attending selective colleges.

I believe success isn't defined by the SAT score—it's the grit and diligence that bring out the best in you.

Isn’t SAT an indicator of grit and diligence (the more you study, the better your do—?)

The logic is this:
Yes, there can be kids with grit and diligence who have high SAT scores, but not every low SAT score means a lack of grit and diligence, and not every high SAT score reflects grit and diligence.

Therefore, what defines your success is not your SAT score, but your grit and diligence.

Every kid I know who’s done well on the test has true grit. It’s not an easy test. People love to say it is, but it isn’t - it takes a lot of studying + the academic foundation. Some kids do have grit but do poorly and it’s because they don’t have the academic foundation. I agree it’s not an intelligence test.

I’ve seen a student with high scores but a poor GPA—definitely a smart kid, but he didn’t put much effort into his schoolwork.
He could be an outlier, but he fits into the category of “high scores but lacking diligence.

Perhaps he is taking more advanced courses that affect his GPA. Perhaps he is heavily involved in student activities or sports. Why, when you talk about GPA, the bar becomes 4.0 or perfect score? Whereas when you discuss SAT, the test score suddenly becomes non-important?

Or maybe he needs to work to support the family. Or he is neurodiverse so he couldn't focus so much on the classwork.

The most troubling issue with TO lovers is they use double standards in judging a kid.

Test score must not be a result of grit and diligence (or whatever standard they see fit).
GPA must be a result of grit and diligence.

This artificial dichotomy simply just don't follow the logic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine went TO to William and Mary.His best friend entered with a 1540 SAT. His friend has been struggling and mine is is doing well with a Business Analytics major and a time consuming arts minor. There is a lot more to it than scores.

+
My kids are doing just fine, even without top SAT scores.
They worked hard in high school, had well-balanced extracurriculars and leadership roles.
Their GPA was strong, and they took a rigorous course load. They are all attending selective colleges.

I believe success isn't defined by the SAT score—it's the grit and diligence that bring out the best in you.

Isn’t SAT an indicator of grit and diligence (the more you study, the better your do—?)

The logic is this:
Yes, there can be kids with grit and diligence who have high SAT scores, but not every low SAT score means a lack of grit and diligence, and not every high SAT score reflects grit and diligence.

Therefore, what defines your success is not your SAT score, but your grit and diligence.

Every kid I know who’s done well on the test has true grit. It’s not an easy test. People love to say it is, but it isn’t - it takes a lot of studying + the academic foundation. Some kids do have grit but do poorly and it’s because they don’t have the academic foundation. I agree it’s not an intelligence test.

I’ve seen a student with high scores but a poor GPA—definitely a smart kid, but he didn’t put much effort into his schoolwork.
He could be an outlier, but he fits into the category of “high scores but lacking diligence.

Perhaps he is taking more advanced courses that affect his GPA. Perhaps he is heavily involved in student activities or sports. Why, when you talk about GPA, the bar becomes 4.0 or perfect score? Whereas when you discuss SAT, the test score suddenly becomes non-important?

Or maybe he needs to work to support the family. Or he is neurodiverse so he couldn't focus so much on the classwork.

Perhaps, but it’s also possible that he’s a smart kid who tests well but doesn’t put a lot of effort into schoolwork because he just doesn’t want to. I’ve known that kid and my sibling was like that. Why is it so hard for some people on this thread to understand that there are lots of variations of kids who test well? It’s really odd. Some have grit and determination and some don’t. Some have tons of activities and responsibilities and some don’t. Some get good grades and take hard classes and some don’t. Some care about school and some don’t. The only thing some of them have in common is good test scores. That’s fine and it’s logical. We don’t have to come up with a single identifying trait.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine went TO to William and Mary.His best friend entered with a 1540 SAT. His friend has been struggling and mine is is doing well with a Business Analytics major and a time consuming arts minor. There is a lot more to it than scores.

+
My kids are doing just fine, even without top SAT scores.
They worked hard in high school, had well-balanced extracurriculars and leadership roles.
Their GPA was strong, and they took a rigorous course load. They are all attending selective colleges.

I believe success isn't defined by the SAT score—it's the grit and diligence that bring out the best in you.

Isn’t SAT an indicator of grit and diligence (the more you study, the better your do—?)

The logic is this:
Yes, there can be kids with grit and diligence who have high SAT scores, but not every low SAT score means a lack of grit and diligence, and not every high SAT score reflects grit and diligence.

Therefore, what defines your success is not your SAT score, but your grit and diligence.

Every kid I know who’s done well on the test has true grit. It’s not an easy test. People love to say it is, but it isn’t - it takes a lot of studying + the academic foundation. Some kids do have grit but do poorly and it’s because they don’t have the academic foundation. I agree it’s not an intelligence test.

I’ve seen a student with high scores but a poor GPA—definitely a smart kid, but he didn’t put much effort into his schoolwork.
He could be an outlier, but he fits into the category of “high scores but lacking diligence.

Perhaps he is taking more advanced courses that affect his GPA. Perhaps he is heavily involved in student activities or sports. Why, when you talk about GPA, the bar becomes 4.0 or perfect score? Whereas when you discuss SAT, the test score suddenly becomes non-important?

Or maybe he needs to work to support the family. Or he is neurodiverse so he couldn't focus so much on the classwork.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine went TO to William and Mary.His best friend entered with a 1540 SAT. His friend has been struggling and mine is is doing well with a Business Analytics major and a time consuming arts minor. There is a lot more to it than scores.

+
My kids are doing just fine, even without top SAT scores.
They worked hard in high school, had well-balanced extracurriculars and leadership roles.
Their GPA was strong, and they took a rigorous course load. They are all attending selective colleges.

I believe success isn't defined by the SAT score—it's the grit and diligence that bring out the best in you.

Isn’t SAT an indicator of grit and diligence (the more you study, the better your do—?)

The logic is this:
Yes, there can be kids with grit and diligence who have high SAT scores, but not every low SAT score means a lack of grit and diligence, and not every high SAT score reflects grit and diligence.

Therefore, what defines your success is not your SAT score, but your grit and diligence.

Every kid I know who’s done well on the test has true grit. It’s not an easy test. People love to say it is, but it isn’t - it takes a lot of studying + the academic foundation. Some kids do have grit but do poorly and it’s because they don’t have the academic foundation. I agree it’s not an intelligence test.

That’s funny, because my anecdotal evidence is different. I’ve known kids who did very well on the tests but did not have grit and had meh grades. I’ve known kids with tremendous grit who didn’t do as well on the test. And then there are dozens of variations on this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine went TO to William and Mary.His best friend entered with a 1540 SAT. His friend has been struggling and mine is is doing well with a Business Analytics major and a time consuming arts minor. There is a lot more to it than scores.

+
My kids are doing just fine, even without top SAT scores.
They worked hard in high school, had well-balanced extracurriculars and leadership roles.
Their GPA was strong, and they took a rigorous course load. They are all attending selective colleges.

I believe success isn't defined by the SAT score—it's the grit and diligence that bring out the best in you.

Isn’t SAT an indicator of grit and diligence (the more you study, the better your do—?)

The logic is this:
Yes, there can be kids with grit and diligence who have high SAT scores, but not every low SAT score means a lack of grit and diligence, and not every high SAT score reflects grit and diligence.

Therefore, what defines your success is not your SAT score, but your grit and diligence.

Every kid I know who’s done well on the test has true grit. It’s not an easy test. People love to say it is, but it isn’t - it takes a lot of studying + the academic foundation. Some kids do have grit but do poorly and it’s because they don’t have the academic foundation. I agree it’s not an intelligence test.

I’ve seen a student with high scores but a poor GPA—definitely a smart kid, but he didn’t put much effort into his schoolwork.
He could be an outlier, but he fits into the category of “high scores but lacking diligence.

You study and prepare well for quiz, tests, exams, midterms, finals, etc. but don't for the important SAT?
WTF

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine went TO to William and Mary.His best friend entered with a 1540 SAT. His friend has been struggling and mine is is doing well with a Business Analytics major and a time consuming arts minor. There is a lot more to it than scores.

+
My kids are doing just fine, even without top SAT scores.
They worked hard in high school, had well-balanced extracurriculars and leadership roles.
Their GPA was strong, and they took a rigorous course load. They are all attending selective colleges.

I believe success isn't defined by the SAT score—it's the grit and diligence that bring out the best in you.

Isn’t SAT an indicator of grit and diligence (the more you study, the better your do—?)

The logic is this:
Yes, there can be kids with grit and diligence who have high SAT scores, but not every low SAT score means a lack of grit and diligence, and not every high SAT score reflects grit and diligence.

Therefore, what defines your success is not your SAT score, but your grit and diligence.

Every kid I know who’s done well on the test has true grit. It’s not an easy test. People love to say it is, but it isn’t - it takes a lot of studying + the academic foundation. Some kids do have grit but do poorly and it’s because they don’t have the academic foundation. I agree it’s not an intelligence test.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine went TO to William and Mary.His best friend entered with a 1540 SAT. His friend has been struggling and mine is is doing well with a Business Analytics major and a time consuming arts minor. There is a lot more to it than scores.

+
My kids are doing just fine, even without top SAT scores.
They worked hard in high school, had well-balanced extracurriculars and leadership roles.
Their GPA was strong, and they took a rigorous course load. They are all attending selective colleges.

I believe success isn't defined by the SAT score—it's the grit and diligence that bring out the best in you.

Isn’t SAT an indicator of grit and diligence (the more you study, the better your do—?)

The logic is this:
Yes, there can be kids with grit and diligence who have high SAT scores, but not every low SAT score means a lack of grit and diligence, and not every high SAT score reflects grit and diligence.

Therefore, what defines your success is not your SAT score, but your grit and diligence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine went TO to William and Mary.His best friend entered with a 1540 SAT. His friend has been struggling and mine is is doing well with a Business Analytics major and a time consuming arts minor. There is a lot more to it than scores.

+
My kids are doing just fine, even without top SAT scores.
They worked hard in high school, had well-balanced extracurriculars and leadership roles.
Their GPA was strong, and they took a rigorous course load. They are all attending selective colleges.

I believe success isn't defined by the SAT score—it's the grit and diligence that bring out the best in you.

Isn’t SAT an indicator of grit and diligence (the more you study, the better your do—?)

For SOME kids that’s true, but kids aren’t all alike. It seems to really irk some people that there isn’t a sharp distinction between outcomes for kids with different test scores. I think we’ve all known kids who did great withe less than stellar scores and vice versa. OP, don’t worry about this part too much if a school admits your kid they think your kid can succeed there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mine went TO to William and Mary.His best friend entered with a 1540 SAT. His friend has been struggling and mine is is doing well with a Business Analytics major and a time consuming arts minor. There is a lot more to it than scores.

+
My kids are doing just fine, even without top SAT scores.
They worked hard in high school, had well-balanced extracurriculars and leadership roles.
Their GPA was strong, and they took a rigorous course load. They are all attending selective colleges.

I believe success isn't defined by the SAT score—it's the grit and diligence that bring out the best in you.

Isn’t SAT an indicator of grit and diligence (the more you study, the better your do—?)

Anonymous wrote:Mine went TO to William and Mary.His best friend entered with a 1540 SAT. His friend has been struggling and mine is is doing well with a Business Analytics major and a time consuming arts minor. There is a lot more to it than scores.

+
My kids are doing just fine, even without top SAT scores.
They worked hard in high school, had well-balanced extracurriculars and leadership roles.
Their GPA was strong, and they took a rigorous course load. They are all attending selective colleges.

I believe success isn't defined by the SAT score—it's the grit and diligence that bring out the best in you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid went TO with a 1400 because submitted ranges have trended upward since Covid. He has a 3.8 at a T20.

DC has a 1400 - can I ask where you submitted or didn’t submit and was this for ED or RD? Ty.

FWIW this was 2 cycles ago. DS wouldn’t ED so apps were EA and RD. HS counselor instructed him to submit to any VA publics (coming from NoVA) and outside of that I don’t recall the specifics, but the formula was basically looking at where his score fell on the school’s published test score distribution, how the school values test scores, and the percentage of students who submit vs who apply TO. I recall Michigan being a tough call because his score was a little lower but they recommend submitting so more kids do. DS was WL there.

My kid didn’t submit Michigan OOS and was admitted (humanities major).

Remember don’t use the CDS for OOS - bc the 25% CDS is generally instate. Scores should be close to 1460-1480 if submitting OOS.