Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

They're trying their best.

But people are staying to notice the racism and shaking their heads.

Studying is as essential to academics as practice is to athletics. American academics are not immune from competition and it kids have to compete. If the argument is that Asians only do well because they try harder then why aren't you kids trying harder? Their competition isn't the Asian kid next door, it's the Asian kid in China.

For the same reason college coaches look beyond athletes that have had an enormous amount of coaching/practice already. In many cases they are overcoached, overworked, and are already at their peak with no room to grow.

This sounds like you just made this up on the spot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being white isn't great either. ... Oh my God the things that people actually say

Yeah, in college admissions, being white isn't great.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a friend who was screwed (likely because she is Asian). She ended at becoming a doctor and is now CMO at a health care company. Super successful - no long term damage!

A friend told her daughter that the next time she applies to college, she should be less female and less Asian. They have a healthy sense of humor! Girl went on to beat out a slew of kids from T10 schools in competition for not one but two of the most coveted graduate school scholarships on the planet. She was just better, but not never got bitter. Amazing young woman, now. Very successful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

Asians may be overrepresented relative to their overall percentage in the school going population, but underrepresented relative to their credentials and accomplishments. Both can be true.

This. Exactly.

So, they are using their analytical abilities to look beyond the college name and going for - in-demand hard STEM majors where there is a high barrier to entry, saving their education dollars, building wealth and network, as well as having profession adjacent gigs and startup ideas.

You are basically arguing that computer science skills are more worthy than great writers or great dancers or great linguists and so on. You need to find a place at a school that agrees with that. If you are trying to get a place at a school that also values scientific research skills, then you might get beat out by a science researcher. What the student brings to the table needs to align with what the school wants on the table.

No. I am not arguing that at all. What I am saying and seeing is that these Asian superstars are often times studying a STEM major and a Humanities major. So, really, they are all-rounders. Good communicators, able to see the big picture, good debaters etc. Most of them are polygots- knowing multiple languages. In addition to all of this - they are dancers, painters, singers, photographers, and accompalished musicians too. It is the culture of being all-rounders and excelling in everything. So, it becomes immaterial if Ivies don't take them. They are increasing the profile of the regular state colleges. In schools like UMD, it is extremely hard for average kids to get into the high demand classes or even compete with the cohort.

Ok. So they're not screwed. I thought this thread was about students feeling they were screwed over by getting a spot at UMD. Umd is a very fine institution with competitive admissions and offers significant opportunities to its graduates . I am not of the opinion that anyone is screwed over by going there but that was the topic of this thread.

No. I believe that Asian students have changed the rhetoric now. The tippy-top students are being rejected for being Asians (yes, I understand that colleges want diversity and not merit) and they are going to state flagships instead. So, now, because the influx of these academic superstars, state colleges are doing very well and rising in ranking. The only downside I can see is the average student in-state may find it extremely hard to get into these programs because the academic stats and ECs are so high.

Having super hardworking Asians in this country is a boon for this country and for our educational institutions. It is keeping US competitive. And no, intelligence does not have a racial component. Individuals can be geniuses and every child can be educated to reach their best.

You seem to be myopically focused on what you call academic super stardom. That simply is not enough at some of these top schools. Almost all the students at top colleges are overall academic superstars. So many of the students at these places have an additional very developed specific talent.

Every department at the school is fighting to get students in there that they want in their programs. Nobody is fighting for an overall well-rounded high-level academic student. The math department want s. High-level math majors. The arts department s want accomplished people in their discipline. The diving coach wants an Olympic diver. That coach does not care if the diver is Asian or white or black or green. They want the best diver they can get.

If they're admitting a class of a thousand, you are not competing against every kid that's applying to the school. You are competing against the other students with your specific talent for the most part.

Again, you are using the same old racist trope of Asians being academic superstars but nothing more than that. Most Asian students are multi-faceted kids who excel equally in various ECs, are multi-lingual, have more exposure to different cultures, will give back to the community etc. They are also mentally and emotionally strong, having a solid family support and financial strength behind them.

Anyhow, Asian Americans are smart enough to anticipate the jealousy and hate from Whites (Blacks and Hispanics are too downtrodden to impact Asians in any way but through violence). and take steps to mitigate it. They are determined to not be victims and are forward looking. They elevate any school they go to and do well in their careers.

In any case, the percentage of super achievers among Asian-Americans is high enough that colleges cannot do without them. Even with all the discrimination - Asians will continue to rise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

When I hear about such cases, I am always skeptical that the person who got "screwed" actually knows the other kid's stats, and it is impossible that they know all the information about the other kid that caused the admissions committee to accept that kid and reject the other kid.

You didn't get screwed just because the college didn't take all 60,000 applications, rank them in order of GPA and test scores, and then offer admission to the top 10,000 applications without looking at anything else.

Yes but if a 36/1580, valedictorian, class president and varsity capt of championship sports team with maybe something else (national award in major related activity) doesn't get in, but others with demonstrably lower stats (per teachers) are getting in, that kid was screwed.

absolutely.
and yes, its part of life and it happens. but yes, it was being screwed.

That is ridiculous. There are more kids like that than spots every year. I think there are something like 30,000 high school valedictorians alone every single year.

Disagree. Most Valedictorians don't have all the other bells & whistles. Those bells & whistles are actually more important.

Definitely, and there was nothing in that list that would be some kind of bell or whistle that would guarantee admission to a competitive college. High stats ....admirable but many applicants have them. Class presidents .....admirable but every high School class has a president. There's 30,000 of those as well. Varsity Captains... Admirable again but well over 30,000 of those. National awards admirable again but what award there are 100,000 of those also.

Did you miss the party about the 1580 SAT score in addition to all of that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a friend who was screwed (likely because she is Asian). She ended at becoming a doctor and is now CMO at a health care company. Super successful - no long term damage!

Asian kids are not screwed by universities. As it is, they're wildly overrepresented. So just stop with that ridiculous nonsense.

It is possible to be overrepresented and discriminated against

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

Asians may be overrepresented relative to their overall percentage in the school going population, but underrepresented relative to their credentials and accomplishments. Both can be true.

This. Exactly.

So, they are using their analytical abilities to look beyond the college name and going for - in-demand hard STEM majors where there is a high barrier to entry, saving their education dollars, building wealth and network, as well as having profession adjacent gigs and startup ideas.

You are basically arguing that computer science skills are more worthy than great writers or great dancers or great linguists and so on. You need to find a place at a school that agrees with that. If you are trying to get a place at a school that also values scientific research skills, then you might get beat out by a science researcher. What the student brings to the table needs to align with what the school wants on the table.

No. I am not arguing that at all. What I am saying and seeing is that these Asian superstars are often times studying a STEM major and a Humanities major. So, really, they are all-rounders. Good communicators, able to see the big picture, good debaters etc. Most of them are polygots- knowing multiple languages. In addition to all of this - they are dancers, painters, singers, photographers, and accompalished musicians too. It is the culture of being all-rounders and excelling in everything. So, it becomes immaterial if Ivies don't take them. They are increasing the profile of the regular state colleges. In schools like UMD, it is extremely hard for average kids to get into the high demand classes or even compete with the cohort.

Ok. So they're not screwed. I thought this thread was about students feeling they were screwed over by getting a spot at UMD. Umd is a very fine institution with competitive admissions and offers significant opportunities to its graduates . I am not of the opinion that anyone is screwed over by going there but that was the topic of this thread.

No. I believe that Asian students have changed the rhetoric now. The tippy-top students are being rejected for being Asians (yes, I understand that colleges want diversity and not merit) and they are going to state flagships instead. So, now, because the influx of these academic superstars, state colleges are doing very well and rising in ranking. The only downside I can see is the average student in-state may find it extremely hard to get into these programs because the academic stats and ECs are so high.

Having super hardworking Asians in this country is a boon for this country and for our educational institutions. It is keeping US competitive. And no, intelligence does not have a racial component. Individuals can be geniuses and every child can be educated to reach their best.

You seem to be myopically focused on what you call academic super stardom. That simply is not enough at some of these top schools. Almost all the students at top colleges are overall academic superstars. So many of the students at these places have an additional very developed specific talent.

Every department at the school is fighting to get students in there that they want in their programs. Nobody is fighting for an overall well-rounded high-level academic student. The math department want s. High-level math majors. The arts department s want accomplished people in their discipline. The diving coach wants an Olympic diver. That coach does not care if the diver is Asian or white or black or green. They want the best diver they can get.

If they're admitting a class of a thousand, you are not competing against every kid that's applying to the school. You are competing against the other students with your specific talent for the most part.

Again, you are using the same old racist trope of Asians being academic superstars but nothing more than that. Most Asian students are multi-faceted kids who excel equally in various ECs, are multi-lingual, have more exposure to different cultures, will give back to the community etc. They are also mentally and emotionally strong, having a solid family support and financial strength behind them.

Anyhow, Asian Americans are smart enough to anticipate the jealousy and hate from Whites (Blacks and Hispanics are too downtrodden to impact Asians in any way but through violence). and take steps to mitigate it. They are determined to not be victims and are forward looking. They elevate any school they go to and do well in their careers.

In any case, the percentage of super achievers among Asian-Americans is high enough that colleges cannot do without them. Even with all the discrimination - Asians will continue to rise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

Asians may be overrepresented relative to their overall percentage in the school going population, but underrepresented relative to their credentials and accomplishments. Both can be true.

This. Exactly.

So, they are using their analytical abilities to look beyond the college name and going for - in-demand hard STEM majors where there is a high barrier to entry, saving their education dollars, building wealth and network, as well as having profession adjacent gigs and startup ideas.

You are basically arguing that computer science skills are more worthy than great writers or great dancers or great linguists and so on. You need to find a place at a school that agrees with that. If you are trying to get a place at a school that also values scientific research skills, then you might get beat out by a science researcher. What the student brings to the table needs to align with what the school wants on the table.

No. I am not arguing that at all. What I am saying and seeing is that these Asian superstars are often times studying a STEM major and a Humanities major. So, really, they are all-rounders. Good communicators, able to see the big picture, good debaters etc. Most of them are polygots- knowing multiple languages. In addition to all of this - they are dancers, painters, singers, photographers, and accompalished musicians too. It is the culture of being all-rounders and excelling in everything. So, it becomes immaterial if Ivies don't take them. They are increasing the profile of the regular state colleges. In schools like UMD, it is extremely hard for average kids to get into the high demand classes or even compete with the cohort.

Ok. So they're not screwed. I thought this thread was about students feeling they were screwed over by getting a spot at UMD. Umd is a very fine institution with competitive admissions and offers significant opportunities to its graduates . I am not of the opinion that anyone is screwed over by going there but that was the topic of this thread.

No. I believe that Asian students have changed the rhetoric now. The tippy-top students are being rejected for being Asians (yes, I understand that colleges want diversity and not merit) and they are going to state flagships instead. So, now, because the influx of these academic superstars, state colleges are doing very well and rising in ranking. The only downside I can see is the average student in-state may find it extremely hard to get into these programs because the academic stats and ECs are so high.

Having super hardworking Asians in this country is a boon for this country and for our educational institutions. It is keeping US competitive. And no, intelligence does not have a racial component. Individuals can be geniuses and every child can be educated to reach their best.

You seem to be myopically focused on what you call academic super stardom. That simply is not enough at some of these top schools. Almost all the students at top colleges are overall academic superstars. So many of the students at these places have an additional very developed specific talent.

Every department at the school is fighting to get students in there that they want in their programs. Nobody is fighting for an overall well-rounded high-level academic student. The math department want s. High-level math majors. The arts department s want accomplished people in their discipline. The diving coach wants an Olympic diver. That coach does not care if the diver is Asian or white or black or green. They want the best diver they can get.

If they're admitting a class of a thousand, you are not competing against every kid that's applying to the school. You are competing against the other students with your specific talent for the most part.

In any case, the percentage of super achievers among Asian-Americans is high enough that colleges cannot do without them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

Asians may be overrepresented relative to their overall percentage in the school going population, but underrepresented relative to their credentials and accomplishments. Both can be true.

This. Exactly.

So, they are using their analytical abilities to look beyond the college name and going for - in-demand hard STEM majors where there is a high barrier to entry, saving their education dollars, building wealth and network, as well as having profession adjacent gigs and startup ideas.

You are basically arguing that computer science skills are more worthy than great writers or great dancers or great linguists and so on. You need to find a place at a school that agrees with that. If you are trying to get a place at a school that also values scientific research skills, then you might get beat out by a science researcher. What the student brings to the table needs to align with what the school wants on the table.

No. I am not arguing that at all. What I am saying and seeing is that these Asian superstars are often times studying a STEM major and a Humanities major. So, really, they are all-rounders. Good communicators, able to see the big picture, good debaters etc. Most of them are polygots- knowing multiple languages. In addition to all of this - they are dancers, painters, singers, photographers, and accompalished musicians too. It is the culture of being all-rounders and excelling in everything. So, it becomes immaterial if Ivies don't take them. They are increasing the profile of the regular state colleges. In schools like UMD, it is extremely hard for average kids to get into the high demand classes or even compete with the cohort.

Ok. So they're not screwed. I thought this thread was about students feeling they were screwed over by getting a spot at UMD. Umd is a very fine institution with competitive admissions and offers significant opportunities to its graduates . I am not of the opinion that anyone is screwed over by going there but that was the topic of this thread.

No. I believe that Asian students have changed the rhetoric now. The tippy-top students are being rejected for being Asians (yes, I understand that colleges want diversity and not merit) and they are going to state flagships instead. So, now, because the influx of these academic superstars, state colleges are doing very well and rising in ranking. The only downside I can see is the average student in-state may find it extremely hard to get into these programs because the academic stats and ECs are so high.

Having super hardworking Asians in this country is a boon for this country and for our educational institutions. It is keeping US competitive. And no, intelligence does not have a racial component. Individuals can be geniuses and every child can be educated to reach their best.

You seem to be myopically focused on what you call academic super stardom. That simply is not enough at some of these top schools. Almost all the students at top colleges are overall academic superstars. So many of the students at these places have an additional very developed specific talent.

Every department at the school is fighting to get students in there that they want in their programs. Nobody is fighting for an overall well-rounded high-level academic student. The math department want s. High-level math majors. The arts department s want accomplished people in their discipline. The diving coach wants an Olympic diver. That coach does not care if the diver is Asian or white or black or green. They want the best diver they can get.

If they're admitting a class of a thousand, you are not competing against every kid that's applying to the school. You are competing against the other students with your specific talent for the most part.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all relative. A kid can is screwed if someone with lower stats gets accepted and you don't. But is has be significantly lower stats.

When I hear about such cases, I am always skeptical that the person who got "screwed" actually knows the other kid's stats, and it is impossible that they know all the information about the other kid that caused the admissions committee to accept that kid and reject the other kid.

You didn't get screwed just because the college didn't take all 60,000 applications, rank them in order of GPA and test scores, and then offer admission to the top 10,000 applications without looking at anything else.

Yes but if a 36/1580, valedictorian, class president and varsity capt of championship sports team with maybe something else (national award in major related activity) doesn't get in, but others with demonstrably lower stats (per teachers) are getting in, that kid was screwed.

absolutely.
and yes, its part of life and it happens. but yes, it was being screwed.

No it is NOT "being screwed". it's about recognizing that there is more to life and getting into college than a 36/1600/class president and varsity team Capitan. There are others who are apparently more interesting, write better essays, have better recommendations and perhaps just present themselves as more intellectual curiosity.

You are talking about schools where only 5-10% are accepted. So 90%+ are REJECTED
Do the math, it's going to happen to many top students.

Until recently it was skin color. But this year seems better than previous years. I'll wait to see what the admissions numbers look like. But the discrimination against asians seems noticeably reduced this year. At least based on anecdotal evidence.

Anonymous wrote:Op here.

The kid I was referring to, ironically, was a South Asian male. Think he was too good in too many things. Top everything.

I still stand behind my view he was screwed (even when I think of my own kids and their lesser qualifications doing better than his initial regular decisions).

It is clear everyone has a different perspective on this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:25% of Asian kids score 1400+ on the SAT.

Only 4% of White and 1% of Hispanic and Black kids do.

Asians are underrepresented at elite schools given their high grades and board scores.

But a lot of them get those scores because they go to cram schools. They're not naturally smarter or anything. And the problem with this framing is your premise is these scores are the primary criterion elite schools value -- or should value. They're not. And shouldn't be.

As it is, Asian kids are WOEFULLY overrepresented and we really should cut back on them.

They're trying their best.

But people are staying to notice the racism and shaking their heads.

Studying is as essential to academics as practice is to athletics. American academics are not immune from competition and it kids have to compete. If the argument is that Asians only do well because they try harder then why aren't you kids trying harder? Their competition isn't the Asian kid next door, it's the Asian kid in China.

For the same reason college coaches look beyond athletes that have had an enormous amount of coaching/practice already. In many cases they are overcoached, overworked, and are already at their peak with no room to grow.

Anonymous wrote:A lot of kids who think they were screwed are rejected based on intangibles. There are countless international kids (particularly Asian) who either refuse to assimilate or do so really poorly. American colleges do not want to have half their student population be poorly assimilated foreign kids.

I'm not saying this to be a jerk. It's true. Jews were discriminated against and did a better job of assimilating - not perfect, but much better. Many Asians do, but not nearly enough.

Obviously the world would be boring if everyone was the same, but if you are going to go to school in America, best to understand common norms of behavior.