Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CMU is not unnecessarily hard. It seems hard because many universities artificially reduce courses rigor to accommodate the increased unreadiness of nowadays high school graduates. There are big portion of CMU students graduate with high honor. More importantly, CMU students are trained to get jobs done. The practicality and reliability is highly valued in work place, but disdained by many individuals as outdated qualities.

Examples? Most top colleges are still…well, really freaking hard. The difficulty of CMU just sounds like the difficulty of stem degrees. The honest question becomes why does it seem CMU’s education comes at a detriment to the college experience, while peers at other institutions can have both rigorous stem education and an amazing college experience.

Frankly everyone at top colleges “studies a lot”

Peers at other institutions with rigorous stem education don’t have “amazing” college experiences. If a program is known rigorous, the complains are similar. Though such programs can be small at many universities and thus overshadowed by the overall school experiences.

DCs are all stem majors
1) Princeton for Math
2) Swarthmore for Physics
3) MIT for ChemE
None hate their times. All are in clubs, go out with friends, and will absolutely geek out if you ask them anything about their studies. So no…the rigorous majors at other colleges aren’t making people complain incessantly or hate their experiences- maybe CMU is just a miserable place.

I have heard my fair share of anecdotes about students being miserable at Princeton, MIT, or Cal/Columbia/Cornell/Penn Engineering. You believe what you believe.

You can find anecdotes of students being miserable at literally any school in any major, but it's simply not the same proportion as CMU or even close. The only college I know that might have a worse work-life balance is Caltech.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CMU is not unnecessarily hard. It seems hard because many universities artificially reduce courses rigor to accommodate the increased unreadiness of nowadays high school graduates. There are big portion of CMU students graduate with high honor. More importantly, CMU students are trained to get jobs done. The practicality and reliability is highly valued in work place, but disdained by many individuals as outdated qualities.

Examples? Most top colleges are still…well, really freaking hard. The difficulty of CMU just sounds like the difficulty of stem degrees. The honest question becomes why does it seem CMU’s education comes at a detriment to the college experience, while peers at other institutions can have both rigorous stem education and an amazing college experience.

Frankly everyone at top colleges “studies a lot”

Peers at other institutions with rigorous stem education don’t have “amazing” college experiences. If a program is known rigorous, the complains are similar. Though such programs can be small at many universities and thus overshadowed by the overall school experiences.

DCs are all stem majors
1) Princeton for Math
2) Swarthmore for Physics
3) MIT for ChemE
None hate their times. All are in clubs, go out with friends, and will absolutely geek out if you ask them anything about their studies. So no…the rigorous majors at other colleges aren’t making people complain incessantly or hate their experiences- maybe CMU is just a miserable place.

I have heard my fair share of anecdotes about students being miserable at Princeton, MIT, or Cal/Columbia/Cornell/Penn Engineering. You believe what you believe.

Sure, people can be miserable anywhere. Never heard it as ubiquitous as CMU. It sounds like an expectation at CMU

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CMU is not unnecessarily hard. It seems hard because many universities artificially reduce courses rigor to accommodate the increased unreadiness of nowadays high school graduates. There are big portion of CMU students graduate with high honor. More importantly, CMU students are trained to get jobs done. The practicality and reliability is highly valued in work place, but disdained by many individuals as outdated qualities.

Examples? Most top colleges are still…well, really freaking hard. The difficulty of CMU just sounds like the difficulty of stem degrees. The honest question becomes why does it seem CMU’s education comes at a detriment to the college experience, while peers at other institutions can have both rigorous stem education and an amazing college experience.

Frankly everyone at top colleges “studies a lot”

Peers at other institutions with rigorous stem education don’t have “amazing” college experiences. If a program is known rigorous, the complains are similar. Though such programs can be small at many universities and thus overshadowed by the overall school experiences.

DCs are all stem majors
1) Princeton for Math
2) Swarthmore for Physics
3) MIT for ChemE
None hate their times. All are in clubs, go out with friends, and will absolutely geek out if you ask them anything about their studies. So no…the rigorous majors at other colleges aren’t making people complain incessantly or hate their experiences- maybe CMU is just a miserable place.

I have heard my fair share of anecdotes about students being miserable at Princeton, MIT, or Cal/Columbia/Cornell/Penn Engineering. You believe what you believe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CMU is not unnecessarily hard. It seems hard because many universities artificially reduce courses rigor to accommodate the increased unreadiness of nowadays high school graduates. There are big portion of CMU students graduate with high honor. More importantly, CMU students are trained to get jobs done. The practicality and reliability is highly valued in work place, but disdained by many individuals as outdated qualities.

Examples? Most top colleges are still…well, really freaking hard. The difficulty of CMU just sounds like the difficulty of stem degrees. The honest question becomes why does it seem CMU’s education comes at a detriment to the college experience, while peers at other institutions can have both rigorous stem education and an amazing college experience.

Frankly everyone at top colleges “studies a lot”

Peers at other institutions with rigorous stem education don’t have “amazing” college experiences. If a program is known rigorous, the complains are similar. Though such programs can be small at many universities and thus overshadowed by the overall school experiences.

This simply isn't true. Stanford, Rice and Berkeley are very much STEM-oriented schools that no one would call "easy", yet they have plenty of happy students who have fulfilling experiences in college.

What sets CMU apart is a few factors:

1) CMU kicked off about 80% of its fraternities from 2003-2013 or so. A few have recolonized as shadows of their former selves, but without nearly a century of tradition you aren't going to get anything remotely resembling the same experience.

2) The lack of a D1 sports scene is a huge detriment. There's nothing to rally around or rejoice in on a regular basis, and school spirit is in the negatives.

3) Anecdotally, from the students I've known, CMU does not place a heavy emphasis on high school extracurriculars during the admissions process. Thus, it selects for a very one-dimensional workhorse type of student without social aptitude.

4) The amount of work CMU piles on is absolutely different than peer institutions, as is the grading scale. Professors are completely merciless in both regards.

5) The weather is godawful, which both discourages venturing outside and puts a big wet blanket over your spirits.

These aspects set CMU apart and aside from the nice surrounding city (which most CMU students will never venture more than a mile into, if that) the school basically offers nothing to counterbalance the brutal academics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CMU is not unnecessarily hard. It seems hard because many universities artificially reduce courses rigor to accommodate the increased unreadiness of nowadays high school graduates. There are big portion of CMU students graduate with high honor. More importantly, CMU students are trained to get jobs done. The practicality and reliability is highly valued in work place, but disdained by many individuals as outdated qualities.

Examples? Most top colleges are still…well, really freaking hard. The difficulty of CMU just sounds like the difficulty of stem degrees. The honest question becomes why does it seem CMU’s education comes at a detriment to the college experience, while peers at other institutions can have both rigorous stem education and an amazing college experience.

Frankly everyone at top colleges “studies a lot”

Peers at other institutions with rigorous stem education don’t have “amazing” college experiences. If a program is known rigorous, the complains are similar. Though such programs can be small at many universities and thus overshadowed by the overall school experiences.

DCs are all stem majors
1) Princeton for Math
2) Swarthmore for Physics
3) MIT for ChemE
None hate their times. All are in clubs, go out with friends, and will absolutely geek out if you ask them anything about their studies. So no…the rigorous majors at other colleges aren’t making people complain incessantly or hate their experiences- maybe CMU is just a miserable place.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CMU is not unnecessarily hard. It seems hard because many universities artificially reduce courses rigor to accommodate the increased unreadiness of nowadays high school graduates. There are big portion of CMU students graduate with high honor. More importantly, CMU students are trained to get jobs done. The practicality and reliability is highly valued in work place, but disdained by many individuals as outdated qualities.

Examples? Most top colleges are still…well, really freaking hard. The difficulty of CMU just sounds like the difficulty of stem degrees. The honest question becomes why does it seem CMU’s education comes at a detriment to the college experience, while peers at other institutions can have both rigorous stem education and an amazing college experience.

Frankly everyone at top colleges “studies a lot”

I wonder whether OOSers have a different experience vs. locals. In parent times, the CMU students I knew were Pittsburgh metro locals who still had local friends at a variety of schools and relatives.

I never met anyone who transferred from CMU to Pitt. But it would be a fairly painless option if anyone needed to. As close as a dorm move at some big schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter's friend is a business major at CMU, had a great internship on the West coast after freshman year, joined a sorority and loves every second of college. Studies a lot though.

That makes a world of difference.

Heck, the business major makes the difference. CMU is known for their CS/Engineering at the undergrad level (business is huge at the MBA level), most business majors are happy at any school as it's simply not nearly as intense as CS/Engineering

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from CMU with a degree in Computer Engineering in 2010 with so many regrets. I literally spent at least 75 hours a week on classes and assignments. I didn't have time to develop my social skills (e.g. EQ) and hobbies during my time there. There were many hobbies that I wanted to do in those four years, but I never had the time due to academic commitments. You could say that I can follow up on those hobbies after graduation, but they were never the same after that. IMHO, I could get the same job with the same pay had I gone to UVA, Virginia Tech, or GMU as I would at CMU, and had much more time to pursue my hobbies. Time is something that I will never get back at CMU. CMU is a great school for people who have passions for academics and very much nothing else, and it was definitely not for me. YMMV.

The average CS graduate from CMU makes much more than the average UVA, VT, or GMU CS graduate.

The PP is literally telling you that wasn't the case for them. It might be for some, but in reality, it's not about where you go as much as the degree itself and a decent GPA. Fact is you don't get paid that much more (if any ) from a top school. It might be slightly easier to land a job with FAANG, but if you do, you will be working with kids from other less "hard core Schools" and making the same thing

The PP wouldn't know. They didn't attend both and have the option to compare.

The actual data shows you do get paid more from top schools. CS graduates from CMU make 56% more than UVA CS grads according to U.S. College Scorecard data.

DP. I actually have the data to compare abeit it is a small sample. I graduated from CMU and my brother graduated from UVA. I make 350K and he makes 300K. He has a much better quality of life than I do because he had time in college to develop his passion and hobbies, and I did not. That's the difference. I make a bit more than he does, but after taxes, not by much.

Exacty. I'd rather be happy in a studio apartment than miserable in a mansion. Someday we're all going to end up six feet under either way, so might as well enjoy our time here.

Exactly! But even more importantly, the difference is not "studio apartment vs mansion" It's nice 2K sq ft 4 bed/2.5 bath home in a great suburb with good schools vs Mansion.
That 50K difference (if in the same state with same taxes) is likely only a $25-30K difference after all taxes.

I went to CMU for grad school. The kids never looked happy (My company sent me there for MS degree, I didn't "pick" the school) I came from a "higher ranked school" but the kids at my school (even in CS/Engineering--I was one of them) were much much much happier overall.
I vote for being happy and having the life you want outside of work as more important than a slightly higher salary

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CMU is not unnecessarily hard. It seems hard because many universities artificially reduce courses rigor to accommodate the increased unreadiness of nowadays high school graduates. There are big portion of CMU students graduate with high honor. More importantly, CMU students are trained to get jobs done. The practicality and reliability is highly valued in work place, but disdained by many individuals as outdated qualities.

Examples? Most top colleges are still…well, really freaking hard. The difficulty of CMU just sounds like the difficulty of stem degrees. The honest question becomes why does it seem CMU’s education comes at a detriment to the college experience, while peers at other institutions can have both rigorous stem education and an amazing college experience.

Frankly everyone at top colleges “studies a lot”

Peers at other institutions with rigorous stem education don’t have “amazing” college experiences. If a program is known rigorous, the complains are similar. Though such programs can be small at many universities and thus overshadowed by the overall school experiences.

Anonymous wrote:CMU is not unnecessarily hard. It seems hard because many universities artificially reduce courses rigor to accommodate the increased unreadiness of nowadays high school graduates. There are big portion of CMU students graduate with high honor. More importantly, CMU students are trained to get jobs done. The practicality and reliability is highly valued in work place, but disdained by many individuals as outdated qualities.

Examples? Most top colleges are still…well, really freaking hard. The difficulty of CMU just sounds like the difficulty of stem degrees. The honest question becomes why does it seem CMU’s education comes at a detriment to the college experience, while peers at other institutions can have both rigorous stem education and an amazing college experience.

Frankly everyone at top colleges “studies a lot”

Anonymous wrote:Daughter's friend is a business major at CMU, had a great internship on the West coast after freshman year, joined a sorority and loves every second of college. Studies a lot though.

That makes a world of difference.

Daughter's friend is a business major at CMU, had a great internship on the West coast after freshman year, joined a sorority and loves every second of college. Studies a lot though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from CMU with a degree in Computer Engineering in 2010 with so many regrets. I literally spent at least 75 hours a week on classes and assignments. I didn't have time to develop my social skills (e.g. EQ) and hobbies during my time there. There were many hobbies that I wanted to do in those four years, but I never had the time due to academic commitments. You could say that I can follow up on those hobbies after graduation, but they were never the same after that. IMHO, I could get the same job with the same pay had I gone to UVA, Virginia Tech, or GMU as I would at CMU, and had much more time to pursue my hobbies. Time is something that I will never get back at CMU. CMU is a great school for people who have passions for academics and very much nothing else, and it was definitely not for me. YMMV.

The average CS graduate from CMU makes much more than the average UVA, VT, or GMU CS graduate.

The PP is literally telling you that wasn't the case for them. It might be for some, but in reality, it's not about where you go as much as the degree itself and a decent GPA. Fact is you don't get paid that much more (if any ) from a top school. It might be slightly easier to land a job with FAANG, but if you do, you will be working with kids from other less "hard core Schools" and making the same thing

The PP wouldn't know. They didn't attend both and have the option to compare.

The actual data shows you do get paid more from top schools. CS graduates from CMU make 56% more than UVA CS grads according to U.S. College Scorecard data.

DP. I actually have the data to compare abeit it is a small sample. I graduated from CMU and my brother graduated from UVA. I make 350K and he makes 300K. He has a much better quality of life than I do because he had time in college to develop his passion and hobbies, and I did not. That's the difference. I make a bit more than he does, but after taxes, not by much.

Exacty. I'd rather be happy in a studio apartment than miserable in a mansion. Someday we're all going to end up six feet under either way, so might as well enjoy our time here.

Anonymous wrote:CMU is not unnecessarily hard. It seems hard because many universities artificially reduce courses rigor to accommodate the increased unreadiness of nowadays high school graduates. There are big portion of CMU students graduate with high honor. More importantly, CMU students are trained to get jobs done. The practicality and reliability is highly valued in work place, but disdained by many individuals as outdated qualities.

"Am I out of touch? No, it's every other school that's wrong!"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from CMU with a degree in Computer Engineering in 2010 with so many regrets. I literally spent at least 75 hours a week on classes and assignments. I didn't have time to develop my social skills (e.g. EQ) and hobbies during my time there. There were many hobbies that I wanted to do in those four years, but I never had the time due to academic commitments. You could say that I can follow up on those hobbies after graduation, but they were never the same after that. IMHO, I could get the same job with the same pay had I gone to UVA, Virginia Tech, or GMU as I would at CMU, and had much more time to pursue my hobbies. Time is something that I will never get back at CMU. CMU is a great school for people who have passions for academics and very much nothing else, and it was definitely not for me. YMMV.

The average CS graduate from CMU makes much more than the average UVA, VT, or GMU CS graduate.

The PP is literally telling you that wasn't the case for them. It might be for some, but in reality, it's not about where you go as much as the degree itself and a decent GPA. Fact is you don't get paid that much more (if any ) from a top school. It might be slightly easier to land a job with FAANG, but if you do, you will be working with kids from other less "hard core Schools" and making the same thing

The PP wouldn't know. They didn't attend both and have the option to compare.

The actual data shows you do get paid more from top schools. CS graduates from CMU make 56% more than UVA CS grads according to U.S. College Scorecard data.

DP. I actually have the data to compare abeit it is a small sample. I graduated from CMU and my brother graduated from UVA. I make 350K and he makes 300K. He has a much better quality of life than I do because he had time in college to develop his passion and hobbies, and I did not. That's the difference. I make a bit more than he does, but after taxes, not by much.