Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are still bickering and I’m not sure OP
has even come back.

🤣 OP here. I've been reading but this thread is...a lot

I'm not sure what else to ask other than: why do people keep mentioning the inability to do IB and take extra curriculars. I'm big on the idea that kids should have well rounded school experiences. Is the extra coursework in IB problems so great that kids can't have outside activities. That doesn't sound like a great trade off but I could be misunderstanding.

It’s a prescriptive program that wasn’t designed with American HS kids with their own extra-curricular interests in mind. So some of the requirements take up a lot of time.

I’ll admit I’m biased. We were at an IB school where a lot of kids doing the full IB program were miserable and then resentful when other kids they knew got into the same or better schools. I think you really need to do full IB for its intrinsic value, such as it is, and not expecting some big payoff in terms of college admissions.

+1
IB is not going to help in college admissions, because of its rigidity and a lot of busy work. For academics AP kids can easily take 6-8 core APs outshining the 3 HL classes in the diploma program and as a results they are better prepared for college with a broader knowledge base.

IB kids sink a lot of time in their ToK, CAS, EE, etc, when the other kids load up on rigorous academic classes.

All of your reasoning is completely inconsequential. Universities look at admissions in the context of available courses at each school, so a comparison between a kid at an IB school versus an AP school is never drawn in the first place. Neither program helps nor hurts more than another as far as admissions goes.

Context matters but only marginally, it’s not the determining factor. You’ll be compared against the entire applicant pool, still need to take the challenging course load. You’re at a disadvantage in IB because it’s so restrictive and you waste so much effort on on the fluff. When did Theory of knowledge ever moved the needle on an applicant? But I’m certain taking AP Physics C matters. With AP, you have the flexibility to choose you schedule based on how capable you are, you can focus more in an area you’re interested in, and you have more rigorous courses to begin with.

Compare 6-8 APs with 3HL, there’s no contest and no surprise, IB kids don’t do as well in admissions.

The HL courses are 2 year courses.

Yeah, IB HL classes take two years, while AP classes take one year. Yet AP classes get more university credit because they go deeper.

Imagine this, an IB kid is interested in stem and takes HL Math analysis, and HL Physics. That’s all he can do in this area because the rest is filled with ToK, CAS, SL classes etc. The AP kid will take Calculus BC, Statistics, Chemistry, plus he has two elective that could be Biology and Computer Science.

IB kid has two college level classes, the AP kid has six. But no, we’re being told they’ll never be compared directly because they come from two different high schools in the same zip code. There shouldn’t be a surprise IB kids are not doing that well.

But wait, who’s the better global citizen with critical thinking and problem solving skills? For sure admissions “love” IB applicants! Seriously how dumb does one have to be to buy into the these cliches!

I believe most top schools encourage students to still take intro courses if required for their STEM degrees. I’m not sure if it was always the case but I think they are finding that students who bypass intro courses really struggle. I think if goal is to get credits, AP wins. BUT both AP and IB can prepare a student to handle college level work.

Anonymous wrote:Why is IB not offered at any of the top fcps high schools?

Because parents would riot in the streets.

Anonymous wrote:Why is it easier to enroll students into IB but not AP courses, especially at underperforming FCPS schools? Is IB program less rigorous or does it come with adjustable rigor to fit the caliber of student cohort?

IB classes come in two flavors, one is High Level comparable with AP, the other Standard Level comparable with a regular class, and generally don’t get you any college credit. A weaker student could take an SL class a la carte, but I can’t imagine why that would be beneficial in any way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is better off getting an IB diploma than they would be if they took AP courses, especially if they took some AP courses that are writing and research-intensive. That is why the top-performing high schools remain AP schools and there is no interest in converting to IB. It’s turned out to be a poor investment by FCPS, but leadership won’t revisit it because they are suckers for any program that claims to turn kids into “global citizens.”

Yep.

+2

Everyone can see IB is inferior to AP and a bad fit for most students. But if you’re bringing it up, you’re an “IB hater”.

Why is it easier to enroll students into IB but not AP courses, especially at underperforming FCPS schools? Is IB program less rigorous or does it come with adjustable rigor to fit the caliber of student cohort?

IB is a good program that when implemented correctly will do an excellent job of preparing one for college. It has greater recognition if one plans to apply to a non-US university.

As others have mentioned it develops strong writing skills which is important for those college majors that have not devolved to multiple choice exams.

The key point is implemented correctly, something FCPS rarely does.

Anonymous wrote:No one is better off getting an IB diploma than they would be if they took AP courses, especially if they took some AP courses that are writing and research-intensive. That is why the top-performing high schools remain AP schools and there is no interest in converting to IB. It’s turned out to be a poor investment by FCPS, but leadership won’t revisit it because they are suckers for any program that claims to turn kids into “global citizens.”

Yep.

No one is better off getting an IB diploma than they would be if they took AP courses, especially if they took some AP courses that are writing and research-intensive. That is why the top-performing high schools remain AP schools and there is no interest in converting to IB. It’s turned out to be a poor investment by FCPS, but leadership won’t revisit it because they are suckers for any program that claims to turn kids into “global citizens.”

Anonymous wrote:Why is IB not offered at any of the top fcps high schools?

Everyone (besides IB cheerleaders or AP trolls) would agree that in a head to head between most solid/top FCPS high schools and IB schools a kid who is very interested in pre-med/STEM/advanced math or science courses is going to be at a disadvantage or at least have to worker much harder (attributable to inefficiencies due to non-stem/math/science course work) an IB school where they won’t have the ability to select among the range of AP courses focusing solely on those subjects. Top FCPS have a disproportionate number of passionate parents who are pushing their kids to focus on stem/advanced math & science course. So, it’s no surprise there is no push from parents. And why would school leadership rock the boat with no ground swell of backing?

I agree the full diploma it should be viewed as a niche achievement that can lead to great outcomes for certain subset of students potentially better than if those kids just did a bunch of AP courses.

Based on what everyone has written it seems that even non-IB diploma candidates who are not interested in a stem/advanced math & science heavy course load could benefit from IB courses. However, it doesn’t seem like there is a way to get hard data to support if the non-IB diploma vs non-stem A course trade off is worth it outside of anecdotal accounts from college profs who seem to think IB kids write and think better.

Why is IB not offered at any of the top fcps high schools?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have been years where some of the top AP schools like Langley, McLean, and Oakton each had as many National Merit Semifinalists as all eight of the IB schools in the county combined.

Selection effect, nitwit. Correlation not causation.

If IB were all that, the higher SES communities would by now have demanded it for their schools. They do not want it, whether it’s Langley in FCPS or Whitman in MCPS. That is far more compelling evidence than the typical, biased pro-IB anecdotes invariably offered on these threads.

You suggest the high-SES communities must know best. They aren't exactly experts in the field of education. The average parent simply knows that within FCPS, most AP schools have good GreatSchools ratings and most IB schools have poor GreatSchools ratings.
Few outsider parents know any real details about IB. It's always the same, incorrect, critiques repeated ad infinitum: perceived inflexibility, too much reading and writing (Writing for math and science? Ridiculous!), and less college credit (no credit for SL, credit for HL).

A stronger peer group at an AP school will always trump a weaker peer group at an IB school for educated parents seeking to maximize their kids’ academic potential.

My kid is at an IB school and has a strong peer group. His friends who graduated this year are going to great colleges.

Are there numbers available for the number of IB graduates per school? Seems like most of the comments are coming from one school district with lots of kids from high income families getting the IB diploma.

My high performing DC is doing the full diploma at one of the worst regarded schools in the county. Sure, the cohort is small, but it's truly a group of gifted and hardworking kids who will graduate much more prepared for college than many AP kids. And, coming from our school of our "stature" will give them a leg up in the admissions process

You’re smoking too much copium.

Colleges won’t know the results from the diploma when they offer admission, just a couple of SL scores.

At the worst regarded schools often IB programs won’t even offer HL math, and the only HL science is Biology. That’s a real handicap for someone interested in a stem major.

For the very top schools that totally makes sense, but for less elite schools like an Emory UVA or NYU it would be interesting to see if IB kids with similar profile (including roughly equivalent ACT/SAT scores) as AP kids at McLean or Langley have better chance of admission

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are still bickering and I’m not sure OP
has even come back.

🤣 OP here. I've been reading but this thread is...a lot

I'm not sure what else to ask other than: why do people keep mentioning the inability to do IB and take extra curriculars. I'm big on the idea that kids should have well rounded school experiences. Is the extra coursework in IB problems so great that kids can't have outside activities. That doesn't sound like a great trade off but I could be misunderstanding.

It’s a prescriptive program that wasn’t designed with American HS kids with their own extra-curricular interests in mind. So some of the requirements take up a lot of time.

I’ll admit I’m biased. We were at an IB school where a lot of kids doing the full IB program were miserable and then resentful when other kids they knew got into the same or better schools. I think you really need to do full IB for its intrinsic value, such as it is, and not expecting some big payoff in terms of college admissions.

+1
IB is not going to help in college admissions, because of its rigidity and a lot of busy work. For academics AP kids can easily take 6-8 core APs outshining the 3 HL classes in the diploma program and as a results they are better prepared for college with a broader knowledge base.

IB kids sink a lot of time in their ToK, CAS, EE, etc, when the other kids load up on rigorous academic classes.

All of your reasoning is completely inconsequential. Universities look at admissions in the context of available courses at each school, so a comparison between a kid at an IB school versus an AP school is never drawn in the first place. Neither program helps nor hurts more than another as far as admissions goes.

Context matters but only marginally, it’s not the determining factor. You’ll be compared against the entire applicant pool, still need to take the challenging course load. You’re at a disadvantage in IB because it’s so restrictive and you waste so much effort on on the fluff. When did Theory of knowledge ever moved the needle on an applicant? But I’m certain taking AP Physics C matters. With AP, you have the flexibility to choose you schedule based on how capable you are, you can focus more in an area you’re interested in, and you have more rigorous courses to begin with.

Compare 6-8 APs with 3HL, there’s no contest and no surprise, IB kids don’t do as well in admissions.

The HL courses are 2 year courses.

Yeah, IB HL classes take two years, while AP classes take one year. Yet AP classes get more university credit because they go deeper.

Imagine this, an IB kid is interested in stem and takes HL Math analysis, and HL Physics. That’s all he can do in this area because the rest is filled with ToK, CAS, SL classes etc. The AP kid will take Calculus BC, Statistics, Chemistry, plus he has two elective that could be Biology and Computer Science.

IB kid has two college level classes, the AP kid has six. But no, we’re being told they’ll never be compared directly because they come from two different high schools in the same zip code. There shouldn’t be a surprise IB kids are not doing that well.

But wait, who’s the better global citizen with critical thinking and problem solving skills? For sure admissions “love” IB applicants! Seriously how dumb does one have to be to buy into the these cliches!

Just ignore this troll. My three kids all went to top 20 schools in STEM and were very well prepared by IB. There is a ton of info comparing IB and AP online if you’re interested in learning more.

Then please tell us what college level stem classes they took in high school that got them into “top 20 schools”.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are still bickering and I’m not sure OP
has even come back.

🤣 OP here. I've been reading but this thread is...a lot

I'm not sure what else to ask other than: why do people keep mentioning the inability to do IB and take extra curriculars. I'm big on the idea that kids should have well rounded school experiences. Is the extra coursework in IB problems so great that kids can't have outside activities. That doesn't sound like a great trade off but I could be misunderstanding.

It’s a prescriptive program that wasn’t designed with American HS kids with their own extra-curricular interests in mind. So some of the requirements take up a lot of time.

I’ll admit I’m biased. We were at an IB school where a lot of kids doing the full IB program were miserable and then resentful when other kids they knew got into the same or better schools. I think you really need to do full IB for its intrinsic value, such as it is, and not expecting some big payoff in terms of college admissions.

+1
IB is not going to help in college admissions, because of its rigidity and a lot of busy work. For academics AP kids can easily take 6-8 core APs outshining the 3 HL classes in the diploma program and as a results they are better prepared for college with a broader knowledge base.

IB kids sink a lot of time in their ToK, CAS, EE, etc, when the other kids load up on rigorous academic classes.

All of your reasoning is completely inconsequential. Universities look at admissions in the context of available courses at each school, so a comparison between a kid at an IB school versus an AP school is never drawn in the first place. Neither program helps nor hurts more than another as far as admissions goes.

Context matters but only marginally, it’s not the determining factor. You’ll be compared against the entire applicant pool, still need to take the challenging course load. You’re at a disadvantage in IB because it’s so restrictive and you waste so much effort on on the fluff. When did Theory of knowledge ever moved the needle on an applicant? But I’m certain taking AP Physics C matters. With AP, you have the flexibility to choose you schedule based on how capable you are, you can focus more in an area you’re interested in, and you have more rigorous courses to begin with.

Compare 6-8 APs with 3HL, there’s no contest and no surprise, IB kids don’t do as well in admissions.

The HL courses are 2 year courses.

Yeah, IB HL classes take two years, while AP classes take one year. Yet AP classes get more university credit because they go deeper.

Imagine this, an IB kid is interested in stem and takes HL Math analysis, and HL Physics. That’s all he can do in this area because the rest is filled with ToK, CAS, SL classes etc. The AP kid will take Calculus BC, Statistics, Chemistry, plus he has two elective that could be Biology and Computer Science.

IB kid has two college level classes, the AP kid has six. But no, we’re being told they’ll never be compared directly because they come from two different high schools in the same zip code. There shouldn’t be a surprise IB kids are not doing that well.

But wait, who’s the better global citizen with critical thinking and problem solving skills? For sure admissions “love” IB applicants! Seriously how dumb does one have to be to buy into the these cliches!

Just ignore this troll. My three kids all went to top 20 schools in STEM and were very well prepared by IB. There is a ton of info comparing IB and AP online if you’re interested in learning more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are still bickering and I’m not sure OP
has even come back.

🤣 OP here. I've been reading but this thread is...a lot

I'm not sure what else to ask other than: why do people keep mentioning the inability to do IB and take extra curriculars. I'm big on the idea that kids should have well rounded school experiences. Is the extra coursework in IB problems so great that kids can't have outside activities. That doesn't sound like a great trade off but I could be misunderstanding.

It’s a prescriptive program that wasn’t designed with American HS kids with their own extra-curricular interests in mind. So some of the requirements take up a lot of time.

I’ll admit I’m biased. We were at an IB school where a lot of kids doing the full IB program were miserable and then resentful when other kids they knew got into the same or better schools. I think you really need to do full IB for its intrinsic value, such as it is, and not expecting some big payoff in terms of college admissions.

+1
IB is not going to help in college admissions, because of its rigidity and a lot of busy work. For academics AP kids can easily take 6-8 core APs outshining the 3 HL classes in the diploma program and as a results they are better prepared for college with a broader knowledge base.

IB kids sink a lot of time in their ToK, CAS, EE, etc, when the other kids load up on rigorous academic classes.

All of your reasoning is completely inconsequential. Universities look at admissions in the context of available courses at each school, so a comparison between a kid at an IB school versus an AP school is never drawn in the first place. Neither program helps nor hurts more than another as far as admissions goes.

Context matters but only marginally, it’s not the determining factor. You’ll be compared against the entire applicant pool, still need to take the challenging course load. You’re at a disadvantage in IB because it’s so restrictive and you waste so much effort on on the fluff. When did Theory of knowledge ever moved the needle on an applicant? But I’m certain taking AP Physics C matters. With AP, you have the flexibility to choose you schedule based on how capable you are, you can focus more in an area you’re interested in, and you have more rigorous courses to begin with.

Compare 6-8 APs with 3HL, there’s no contest and no surprise, IB kids don’t do as well in admissions.

The HL courses are 2 year courses.

Yeah, IB HL classes take two years, while AP classes take one year. Yet AP classes get more university credit because they go deeper.

Imagine this, an IB kid is interested in stem and takes HL Math analysis, and HL Physics. That’s all he can do in this area because the rest is filled with ToK, CAS, SL classes etc. The AP kid will take Calculus BC, Statistics, Chemistry, plus he has two elective that could be Biology and Computer Science.

IB kid has two college level classes, the AP kid has six. But no, we’re being told they’ll never be compared directly because they come from two different high schools in the same zip code. There shouldn’t be a surprise IB kids are not doing that well.

But wait, who’s the better global citizen with critical thinking and problem solving skills? For sure admissions “love” IB applicants! Seriously how dumb does one have to be to buy into the these cliches!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are still bickering and I’m not sure OP
has even come back.

🤣 OP here. I've been reading but this thread is...a lot

I'm not sure what else to ask other than: why do people keep mentioning the inability to do IB and take extra curriculars. I'm big on the idea that kids should have well rounded school experiences. Is the extra coursework in IB problems so great that kids can't have outside activities. That doesn't sound like a great trade off but I could be misunderstanding.

It’s a prescriptive program that wasn’t designed with American HS kids with their own extra-curricular interests in mind. So some of the requirements take up a lot of time.

I’ll admit I’m biased. We were at an IB school where a lot of kids doing the full IB program were miserable and then resentful when other kids they knew got into the same or better schools. I think you really need to do full IB for its intrinsic value, such as it is, and not expecting some big payoff in terms of college admissions.

+1
IB is not going to help in college admissions, because of its rigidity and a lot of busy work. For academics AP kids can easily take 6-8 core APs outshining the 3 HL classes in the diploma program and as a results they are better prepared for college with a broader knowledge base.

IB kids sink a lot of time in their ToK, CAS, EE, etc, when the other kids load up on rigorous academic classes.

All of your reasoning is completely inconsequential. Universities look at admissions in the context of available courses at each school, so a comparison between a kid at an IB school versus an AP school is never drawn in the first place. Neither program helps nor hurts more than another as far as admissions goes.

Context matters but only marginally, it’s not the determining factor. You’ll be compared against the entire applicant pool, still need to take the challenging course load. You’re at a disadvantage in IB because it’s so restrictive and you waste so much effort on on the fluff. When did Theory of knowledge ever moved the needle on an applicant? But I’m certain taking AP Physics C matters. With AP, you have the flexibility to choose you schedule based on how capable you are, you can focus more in an area you’re interested in, and you have more rigorous courses to begin with.

Compare 6-8 APs with 3HL, there’s no contest and no surprise, IB kids don’t do as well in admissions.

The HL courses are 2 year courses.

Right, like taking a 101 and 102 pair of college level classes while the SL level is the same as a single semester college class.