Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, all of this is made easier if mom stays home with the children and dad makes more money to compensate. I know it’s an unpopular sentiment, but most women would feel much less resentment if they dropped work to focus their efforts (when the children are young) on raising them and let their DH work harder to cover the bills.

So you think the only function women should have once they become mothers is to solely focus on being a mom? Why is that fair? Women have talents, skills and brains that society can benefit from! Why can Dads be dads and also productive members of society!

You do know the story of Japan? Women are choosing not to become mothers because of the unequal treatment of women! I am not encouraging my dds to become mothers! If the population dies out so be it.

I’m saying that mothers would be much happier if the focused solely on being moms when their children are young. They very well may have talents/brain/skills society can benefit from, but the discussion about happiness and purpose are two separate ones. The vast majority of career women have jobs, not careers, and it is ironic that women supporting feminism parrot the incredulous lie that working 45 hours per week as Regional Sales Manager to Management is worth more to women than being home with their child. It is certainly worth more to your company that you spend those hours click-clacking on your laptop, but it won’t make you happier. I think the female resentment is symptomatic that some women are waking up like “what the hell am I doing, getting sucked dry for $35/hr?” but the market absolutely cannot allow her to consider quitting so - quick! - blame her DH and they can fight about who cleans gutters so that no one stops and says “wait, who is actually getting all our time?”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree a lot of this list is super condescending but there’s some real truth to it. In my marriage, and the marriage of most of my friends the saying “he does his best and I do the rest” is 100 percent the case. It’s not that the dads don’t do anything, it’s that they view virtually everything as optional or extra credit. If my husband gets busy at work or wants to travel, he does that. If one of our kids has extra needs, that’s a problem mom will solve regardless of whether she also works or what else she has going on. My husband is not a bad guy and will laugh about both our moms raving how wonderful he is for taking a child to a physical (scheduled by mom, Who is at work and needs to be there because she handled the sick days last week because dad “can’t” reschedule any meetings) but he is still totally guilty of kicking anything hard or inconvenient to me. He knows that I will always always always find a way to do the things I think are important for the kids so he can just say “I can’t” guilt free.

Also this one reminded me of DCUM:
If I do a task incorrectly, people will tell my partner to praise me for trying.

Totally agree. "He does his best and I do the rest" is absolutely how my marriage and those of pretty much all my friends work. "His best" can vary a bit, but I only know one marriage where I genuinely think the dad is the primary parent and is doing "the rest" and he's a SAHD and his wife is an executive and they have one kid.

I think this is the dirty secret of most dual income couples. It looks pretty equal from the outside -- both partners work, they say the right things, dad is visibly doing stuff like taking kids to activities, cooking, seems engaged. But if you open things up and really look at what is happening, dad is taking kids to activities that mom (who also works) researched, arranged, and provided dad with the schedule for. Dad is cooking but so is mom, and mom is also thinking a week ahead to when her MIL is in town and suggesting they make and freeze an extra casserole so they have a quick dinner for the night she arrives. Mom doesn't always seem engaged, because she's exhausted and has a laundry list of things in her head to keep track of (including laundry).

But the veneer of "things are pretty equal!" is there because it's easier on everyone's ego and it keeps the ship afloat. You could nag and nitpick dad to death but he's never, ever going to do as much as mom. Ever. If you don't want to ruin your marriage and get a divorce, which most of us don't, you just accept the inequity and move on. But it's unequal. Very, very unequal.

“I’m oppressed because DH doesn’t think a week ahead to freeze a casserole for MIL” isn’t quite the own you think it is. That is you concerned about appearances and looking on top of things lest MIL judge you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Find it here: https://zawn.substack.com/p/the-dad-privilege-checklist

Please read the checklist and return for a conversation about it. I want to hear from others about their own experiences with coparenting their children with the children's dad.

Honestly, this is trope stacked on top of trope and is really some lazy thinking by someone heavily invested in martyred mothering (just note the name of the substack -- "Liberating Motherhood" -- this thing comes at this with an axe to grind and part of the business model is to stoke outrage; it's not dissimilar from right-wing news media like Fox or Newsmax in that regard.) The article itself incredibly lazy thinking that borrows the language of liberation theology for cynical purposes, and I'm going to hazard a guess that the "checklist" is just a crowdsourced list of grievances from women with a similar mindset. In other words, I don't think the author has any original thoughts on the matter.

This is not to say some individual items on the list aren't valid phenomena -- I have definitely been approached by women at the playground when I was out with my toddlers and praised for being a great dad and giving mom a "break," for example, but I've also been approached by women keen on "helping" me because they assumed by these women to be incompetent because I have a penis). So, this isn't really dad "privilege" so much as it is a recounting of various stereotypes that are harmful to both women AND men. It's kind of like the dumb, clueless dad trope you used to see in advertising (and thankfully don't see so much anymore, that ridiculous car commercial where the dad gets the wrong binky notwithstanding).

So, I'm not going to say "not all men." I'm going to say "hardly any men" fit this list of "privilege." (Another co-opted term intended to provoke a response, natch).

Let's just look at the first two:

I know that someone else will register my children for school.

I know that someone else will know the signs of developmental disabilities and mental health issues in my children.

I guess we're assume that these things are exclusively the mom's domain? But I don't think that's true in any family I know of. I will say that same as women are known to approach dads at playgrounds and either praise or offer to help them, schools similarly default to contacting the mom, nevermind the fact that most dads are perfectly competent and capable caregivers.

I know of NO families where the presence of developmental disabilities or mental health issues are unilateral concerns for just mom.

The third one on the list about giving birth was first the clue to me that this was a crowdsourced list -- it's just dripping with contempt and doesn't make sense.

The next two:

My partner will be judged for my parenting shortcomings.

I don’t have to worry about school supplies because someone else will do it for me.

I guess it's true that men, in general, don't give a shit what other people think so wouldn't fret about being "judged." That's not "privilege," however. That's just a case of having self-confidence. To the degree women have more insecurities and worry about what other people think, that's a woman problem (and probably an individual one), not some broader indictment of men; everyone should carry on without caring what other people think, much less caring if someone else is "judging."

The school supplies thing is just stupid -- we always did back-to-school shopping as a family and there were plenty of dads doing the same when we were at Staples or whatever.

The men I know make doctors appointments and take their kids to doctors. They cook. They plan birthday parties (granted, these birthday parties might not be the elaborate affairs some martyr moms might feel like they need to have so they don't feel judged, but that, again, is a woman problem, it's not "dad privilege."). They plan trips and pack their children for them. They chaperone school field trips. In fact, they do most of these things on this list except things they're physically incapable of, such as giving birth or breastfeeding. But they do, in fact, pick up the slack when their partners DO those physical things, the contemptuous tone of the bulleted list items notwithstanding.

So, I guess what I'm saying is I dispute the very premise of the article. I understand it was written to try to rile up women feeling resentful about things. But objectively, the insinuation that men don't do the things on this (ridiculously long, crow-sourced list) is unsupported by facts, except for some things that might fall more into the bucket of "emotional labor," which takes us back to those conversations since, at the end of the day, there are some things some moms care a lot more about than most dads -- and most of those are grounded in <checks notes> fear of "being judged" or other anxieties that men, generally, don't have.

Is not having that anxiety "dad privilege?" I suppose you could make the case. But, honestly, moms didn't have that anxiety for most millennia. If the supposition here is that men should start caring about these things that give moms anxiety (fear of being judged...) that's arguably stupid. Misery loves company, sure... But maybe, just maybe, women should take a page from the attitude most dads have and stop obsessing so much about things that don't matter in the long run.

+1,000 to this guy.

I work FT and am a very involved dad, and always have been. So were my dad, and my FIL.

My wife works PT, and does more than half, but less than 2/3 of family logistical management.

I do all grocery shopping and 90% of the cooking.

Many of you are complaining, essentially, that the judgment from society surrrounding parenting and child outcomes falls primarily on mom. There is truth to that.

You’re ignoring that, likewise, the judgment for the family’s earning and financial situation falls primarily on dad. When people think “it’s too bad they aren’t able to stay in a fancier hotel at Disney World, or travel to Europe for Spring Break, or send four kids to private colleges,” they’re wondering why dad doesn’t earn more. Not mom. So enjoy your “mom privilege.”

Ultimately, only we can decide for ourselves wise will individually adopt this guilt as our own burdens. My wife and I decided long ago that we would not, and we’re a lot happier for it. Highly recommend anyone who wants to submit such lists to substack instead try to find the same peace and confidence.

I have literally never heard anyone ever wonder why a dad isn’t earning more or say any version of anything you quoted. It’s really hard to believe this has happened to you more than once if at all. Or you hang out with total jerks.

What I do hear constantly is women who are judged as being bad moms for working AND other moms who are judged for being lazy because the SAH. Every choice a mom makes is fair game for judgement. You have no idea what you are talking about.

You don’t think that Dads who stay home don’t get judged as lazy? I sure have news for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:where can i sign up for these privledges

you do realize that if it doesnt apply to you or your husband then you arent the audience of the list?

keep doing what you do.

Do you realize that most of the comments are painting “most” men with the same broad brush? Why wouldn’t any man want to defend the inaccurate stereotypes being foisted upon them for no other reason than gender?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:where can i sign up for these privledges

you do realize that if it doesnt apply to you or your husband then you arent the audience of the list?

keep doing what you do.

Do you realize that most of the comments are painting “most” men with the same broad brush? Why wouldn’t any man want to defend the inaccurate stereotypes being foisted upon them for no other reason than gender?

Anonymous wrote:Yikes.

All the listed work are easy-peasy jobs for me. I prefer doing or outsourcing these to going to work for a paycheck. My DH thinks I am a superwoman just because I deal with everything that does not pertain to his career. This gives him space and bandwidth to become a high earner and give us a good lifestyle.

I prefer that 1) my DH make good money, 2) is loyal, loving and respectful to me, and 3) appreciates me. I do the same for him, except instead of making good money, I give him great return for the money he earns in the sense of building wealth, having a well run household and having kids who excel etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yikes.

All the listed work are easy-peasy jobs for me. I prefer doing or outsourcing these to going to work for a paycheck. My DH thinks I am a superwoman just because I deal with everything that does not pertain to his career. This gives him space and bandwidth to become a high earner and give us a good lifestyle.

I prefer that 1) my DH make good money, 2) is loyal, loving and respectful to me, and 3) appreciates me. I do the same for him, except instead of making good money, I give him great return for the money he earns in the sense of building wealth, having a well run household and having kids who excel etc.

Lucky you. Turns out your privilege is not "reading the room."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

I think the takeaway should be that every family is different. Clearly the list is extreme, however some people DO live this way. I am one of them. I also do almost everything on this list that some "women never have to think about". My husband never grills, has no idea when to put out the garbage because I do it, never knows when the recycling needs to go out, doesn't cut the lawn, doesn't make coffee, knows nothing about our landscaping, I pressure wash the exterior of the house as high up as I can then one of my sons does the rest, I open the pool, etc. There is such a clear imbalance in my life that I am a fool and am in the process of changing that because I am tired of living this way. My husband takes no interest in our now almost grown children except for the boys, and I would bet he has no idea how old or what grade my youngest is in. It's sad and unhealthy, but I am damn sure that there are women that don't live this this, so maybe everyone needs to just understand that everyone is different.

Then why make this a gender war? Any man with a wife that doesn’t do anything is equally screwed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

I think the takeaway should be that every family is different. Clearly the list is extreme, however some people DO live this way. I am one of them. I also do almost everything on this list that some "women never have to think about". My husband never grills, has no idea when to put out the garbage because I do it, never knows when the recycling needs to go out, doesn't cut the lawn, doesn't make coffee, knows nothing about our landscaping, I pressure wash the exterior of the house as high up as I can then one of my sons does the rest, I open the pool, etc. There is such a clear imbalance in my life that I am a fool and am in the process of changing that because I am tired of living this way. My husband takes no interest in our now almost grown children except for the boys, and I would bet he has no idea how old or what grade my youngest is in. It's sad and unhealthy, but I am damn sure that there are women that don't live this this, so maybe everyone needs to just understand that everyone is different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:where can i sign up for these privledges

you do realize that if it doesnt apply to you or your husband then you arent the audience of the list?

keep doing what you do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article would be better if there were a list of things that women don’t have to worry about.

Cleaning the gutters? I mean, as long as she can call someone else to do it.

Otherwise, go ahead and list them.

Never worry about the grass getting cut

Never has to discuss whether the tires need to be rotated

Never gives actors sound in the car a 2nd thought

Doesn’t know the vets name or even where they are

Never worry about lightbulbs

Never need to replace a light switch or ceiling fan

Don’t worry about the kids learning an instrument since he teaches them that

Don’t need to talk sorta (though I can but not to the level they care to)

Never edited a paper

Mousetraps

Never even need to understand how to trim a tree

Have no clue what indigenous plants are

Never split wood

Never started a fire

Don’t clean cars

Never grilled anything ever

No clue what days the trash goes to the curb

No idea how to get large trash pickups

Never made coffee


I could obviously learn or do all these but I don’t need to

Anonymous wrote:Yikes.

All the listed work are easy-peasy jobs for me. I prefer doing or outsourcing these to going to work for a paycheck. My DH thinks I am a superwoman just because I deal with everything that does not pertain to his career. This gives him space and bandwidth to become a high earner and give us a good lifestyle.

I prefer that 1) my DH make good money, 2) is loyal, loving and respectful to me, and 3) appreciates me. I do the same for him, except instead of making good money, I give him great return for the money he earns in the sense of building wealth, having a well run household and having kids who excel etc.

Anonymous wrote:My husband does everything on that list. Where do I go to pick up my prize?

Anonymous wrote:where can i sign up for these privledges