Anonymous wrote:Another one bites the dust - Eastern Nazarene in MA

https://www.masslive.com/news/2024/06/eastern-nazarene-college-in-quincy-to-close-doors-citing-financial-issues.html?outputType=amp

I found out about it through a post on the social media account of the small MA school my daughter will attend this Fall

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://wapo.st/4b31Cky

Now, more than ever, families and students pursuing higher education opportunities must do their research into the financial viability of colleges as well as the long-term cost of tuition, student loans, and other expenses. In many cases, this is almost as big a financial investment as buying a home.

Our upper middle class neighbor's daughter is going to play soccer at some D3 college in the fall and they swear they're only paying $10,000 total all-in per year. Tells me these small colleges are extremely hard-up for students.

They are charging $10k because that’s all these under resourced colleges are worth. There is literally zero on-campus recruiting. They can’t afford expensive engineering or nursing depts. They’re a joke with tenured faculty, admins & local vendors all leeching off the dying carcass until they go insolvent.

And, yet, professors at the well-off research universities often prefer to send their own children to LACs without engineering and nursing programs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://wapo.st/4b31Cky

Now, more than ever, families and students pursuing higher education opportunities must do their research into the financial viability of colleges as well as the long-term cost of tuition, student loans, and other expenses. In many cases, this is almost as big a financial investment as buying a home.

Our upper middle class neighbor's daughter is going to play soccer at some D3 college in the fall and they swear they're only paying $10,000 total all-in per year. Tells me these small colleges are extremely hard-up for students.

They are charging $10k because that’s all these under resourced colleges are worth. There is literally zero on-campus recruiting. They can’t afford expensive engineering or nursing depts. They’re a joke with tenured faculty, admins & local vendors all leeching off the dying carcass until they go insolvent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would anyone know of small colleges in VA that might be showing signs of being in danger of closing down?

Lynchburg had recent layoffs

Sweet Briar just barely survived a few years ago

I would hate to see these schools close. My daughter was accepted to Randolph and really liked it there. She chose a different LAC with just over 1k students, only because the other school had both programs she wanted as possible majors. But Randolph is a very special little school for a great price.

Lynchburg did have layoffs. And their PR wasn't great. But it was a handful of departments where those depts. closed due to the cost of running them when there are only a handful of kids enrolled in those majors (like theater). Friends with kids there said some classes had 1-2 kids in them and they had to fund those, plus the running of the department. While sad for those people who had the majors cut (they still offer arts, for example, just not all as a "major") you cannot fund programs for 4 kids. So their decision making was sound there. They are more known for their health related paths and some other programs (they have a well regarded PA school and a PT school, as well as nursing).

Lburg is also a big sports school and is expanding those offerings (mens vball, mens wrestling). So the school isn't going anywhere.

Lburg is a D3 sports school...I would be very concerned that they are expanding sports offerings that are guaranteed $$$ losers.

Even Alabama loses money overall on their sports (not terrible...but it's negative). Football makes all their money, and literally every other sport loses money. Most of the football money is made from SEC television rights.

Lburg has a very good D3 baseball team (won the D3 college world series)...at best, the baseball team breaks even (but probably doesn't).

Expanding D3 sports I guess gets more tuition revenue (?)...although, I don't know if the student population is expanding overall, vs. it is attracting more men to the campus. Many of these small D3 schools are now like 65%+ female.

Like it or not, sports is a draw. I know many rising seniors who are gearing for Tech and JMU b/c they want a "sports school." And those are just the students, not the athletes. And the fact that you feel the need to denigrate "D3" schools tells me you know very little about this topic overall. Those kids work hard and some D3 schools perform at a very high level, scrimmaging and beating lower level D2 and D1 schools.

Lburg has a very good baseball team, yes. But their FH team went several rounds into the NCAA tournament. Their track and XC teams are also very good. As well, so is their mens LAX. When we have visited, all of the sports events were well attended and supported. And lots of kids on each of these teams were athletic and academic all americans.

It remains to be seen if this will increase enrollment overall or not. But you don't know that any more than I do. And Lburg's M to FM ratio closer to 50/50.

You don't have to like the school but I know several kids having VERY good experiences there and who will grad debt free (I have a rising senior in HS and no one at the school).

This is nonsense. Lynchburg has a 96% acceptance rate and a 54% graduation rate. Few (if any) are Athletic AND Academic All Americans.

You’re an idiot. and an ignorant one. Their FH team alone had an ave. 3.69 gpa. 9 4.0 students. Head to IG ignoramus. It’s all there.

Sorry...I thought you meant these were HS academic All Americans. Those players are not going to Lynchburg.

However, do you really think it is that difficult to maintain a 3.5 GPA at Lynchburg?

Maintaining a 3.5 is an accomplishment anywhere. Your ignorance is showing again.

Sorry, but a 3.5 at Lynchberg is not a 3.5 at MIT.

Hopefully kids at Lynchburg can spell better than you.

For someone that supposedly has no personal stake in Lynchburg…you seem oddly triggered.

The student population has declined 25% over the last 8 years and keeps dropping.

Don’t worry…men’s wrestling and volleyball to the rescue (even though each of those players will receive about $25k in merit aid on average which is what everyone in the school receives).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would anyone know of small colleges in VA that might be showing signs of being in danger of closing down?

Lynchburg had recent layoffs

Sweet Briar just barely survived a few years ago

I would hate to see these schools close. My daughter was accepted to Randolph and really liked it there. She chose a different LAC with just over 1k students, only because the other school had both programs she wanted as possible majors. But Randolph is a very special little school for a great price.

Lynchburg did have layoffs. And their PR wasn't great. But it was a handful of departments where those depts. closed due to the cost of running them when there are only a handful of kids enrolled in those majors (like theater). Friends with kids there said some classes had 1-2 kids in them and they had to fund those, plus the running of the department. While sad for those people who had the majors cut (they still offer arts, for example, just not all as a "major") you cannot fund programs for 4 kids. So their decision making was sound there. They are more known for their health related paths and some other programs (they have a well regarded PA school and a PT school, as well as nursing).

Lburg is also a big sports school and is expanding those offerings (mens vball, mens wrestling). So the school isn't going anywhere.

Lburg is a D3 sports school...I would be very concerned that they are expanding sports offerings that are guaranteed $$$ losers.

Even Alabama loses money overall on their sports (not terrible...but it's negative). Football makes all their money, and literally every other sport loses money. Most of the football money is made from SEC television rights.

Lburg has a very good D3 baseball team (won the D3 college world series)...at best, the baseball team breaks even (but probably doesn't).

Expanding D3 sports I guess gets more tuition revenue (?)...although, I don't know if the student population is expanding overall, vs. it is attracting more men to the campus. Many of these small D3 schools are now like 65%+ female.

Like it or not, sports is a draw. I know many rising seniors who are gearing for Tech and JMU b/c they want a "sports school." And those are just the students, not the athletes. And the fact that you feel the need to denigrate "D3" schools tells me you know very little about this topic overall. Those kids work hard and some D3 schools perform at a very high level, scrimmaging and beating lower level D2 and D1 schools.

Lburg has a very good baseball team, yes. But their FH team went several rounds into the NCAA tournament. Their track and XC teams are also very good. As well, so is their mens LAX. When we have visited, all of the sports events were well attended and supported. And lots of kids on each of these teams were athletic and academic all americans.

It remains to be seen if this will increase enrollment overall or not. But you don't know that any more than I do. And Lburg's M to FM ratio closer to 50/50.

You don't have to like the school but I know several kids having VERY good experiences there and who will grad debt free (I have a rising senior in HS and no one at the school).

This is nonsense. Lynchburg has a 96% acceptance rate and a 54% graduation rate. Few (if any) are Athletic AND Academic All Americans.

You’re an idiot. and an ignorant one. Their FH team alone had an ave. 3.69 gpa. 9 4.0 students. Head to IG ignoramus. It’s all there.

Sorry...I thought you meant these were HS academic All Americans. Those players are not going to Lynchburg.

However, do you really think it is that difficult to maintain a 3.5 GPA at Lynchburg?

Maintaining a 3.5 is an accomplishment anywhere. Your ignorance is showing again.

Sorry, but a 3.5 at Lynchberg is not a 3.5 at MIT.

Hopefully kids at Lynchburg can spell better than you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would anyone know of small colleges in VA that might be showing signs of being in danger of closing down?

Lynchburg had recent layoffs

Sweet Briar just barely survived a few years ago

I would hate to see these schools close. My daughter was accepted to Randolph and really liked it there. She chose a different LAC with just over 1k students, only because the other school had both programs she wanted as possible majors. But Randolph is a very special little school for a great price.

Lynchburg did have layoffs. And their PR wasn't great. But it was a handful of departments where those depts. closed due to the cost of running them when there are only a handful of kids enrolled in those majors (like theater). Friends with kids there said some classes had 1-2 kids in them and they had to fund those, plus the running of the department. While sad for those people who had the majors cut (they still offer arts, for example, just not all as a "major") you cannot fund programs for 4 kids. So their decision making was sound there. They are more known for their health related paths and some other programs (they have a well regarded PA school and a PT school, as well as nursing).

Lburg is also a big sports school and is expanding those offerings (mens vball, mens wrestling). So the school isn't going anywhere.

Lburg is a D3 sports school...I would be very concerned that they are expanding sports offerings that are guaranteed $$$ losers.

Even Alabama loses money overall on their sports (not terrible...but it's negative). Football makes all their money, and literally every other sport loses money. Most of the football money is made from SEC television rights.

Lburg has a very good D3 baseball team (won the D3 college world series)...at best, the baseball team breaks even (but probably doesn't).

Expanding D3 sports I guess gets more tuition revenue (?)...although, I don't know if the student population is expanding overall, vs. it is attracting more men to the campus. Many of these small D3 schools are now like 65%+ female.

Like it or not, sports is a draw. I know many rising seniors who are gearing for Tech and JMU b/c they want a "sports school." And those are just the students, not the athletes. And the fact that you feel the need to denigrate "D3" schools tells me you know very little about this topic overall. Those kids work hard and some D3 schools perform at a very high level, scrimmaging and beating lower level D2 and D1 schools.

Lburg has a very good baseball team, yes. But their FH team went several rounds into the NCAA tournament. Their track and XC teams are also very good. As well, so is their mens LAX. When we have visited, all of the sports events were well attended and supported. And lots of kids on each of these teams were athletic and academic all americans.

It remains to be seen if this will increase enrollment overall or not. But you don't know that any more than I do. And Lburg's M to FM ratio closer to 50/50.

You don't have to like the school but I know several kids having VERY good experiences there and who will grad debt free (I have a rising senior in HS and no one at the school).

This is nonsense. Lynchburg has a 96% acceptance rate and a 54% graduation rate. Few (if any) are Athletic AND Academic All Americans.

You’re an idiot. and an ignorant one. Their FH team alone had an ave. 3.69 gpa. 9 4.0 students. Head to IG ignoramus. It’s all there.

Sorry...I thought you meant these were HS academic All Americans. Those players are not going to Lynchburg.

However, do you really think it is that difficult to maintain a 3.5 GPA at Lynchburg?

Maintaining a 3.5 is an accomplishment anywhere. Your ignorance is showing again.

Sorry, but a 3.5 at Lynchberg is not a 3.5 at MIT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://wapo.st/4b31Cky

Now, more than ever, families and students pursuing higher education opportunities must do their research into the financial viability of colleges as well as the long-term cost of tuition, student loans, and other expenses. In many cases, this is almost as big a financial investment as buying a home.

Our upper middle class neighbor's daughter is going to play soccer at some D3 college in the fall and they swear they're only paying $10,000 total all-in per year. Tells me these small colleges are extremely hard-up for students.

They are charging $10k because that’s all these under resourced colleges are worth. There is literally zero on-campus recruiting. They can’t afford expensive engineering or nursing depts. They’re a joke with tenured faculty, admins & local vendors all leeching off the dying carcass until they go insolvent.

They definitely have enough money to run an engineering or nursing department, they have $1bn lmao. It just goes against the purpose of a liberal arts college to derail your emphasis to practical, pre-professional majors only. You also, surprise surprise, don't need some good-looking woman who just got out of undergrad to come to your campus, so you can apply for a role. Just apply. Sadly, for you, they aren't going anywhere.

I am confused…what LAC that is “hurting for students” has a $1BN endowment and gives UMC students so much merit aid that net cost is $10k?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would anyone know of small colleges in VA that might be showing signs of being in danger of closing down?

Lynchburg had recent layoffs

Sweet Briar just barely survived a few years ago

I would hate to see these schools close. My daughter was accepted to Randolph and really liked it there. She chose a different LAC with just over 1k students, only because the other school had both programs she wanted as possible majors. But Randolph is a very special little school for a great price.

Lynchburg did have layoffs. And their PR wasn't great. But it was a handful of departments where those depts. closed due to the cost of running them when there are only a handful of kids enrolled in those majors (like theater). Friends with kids there said some classes had 1-2 kids in them and they had to fund those, plus the running of the department. While sad for those people who had the majors cut (they still offer arts, for example, just not all as a "major") you cannot fund programs for 4 kids. So their decision making was sound there. They are more known for their health related paths and some other programs (they have a well regarded PA school and a PT school, as well as nursing).

Lburg is also a big sports school and is expanding those offerings (mens vball, mens wrestling). So the school isn't going anywhere.

Lburg is a D3 sports school...I would be very concerned that they are expanding sports offerings that are guaranteed $$$ losers.

Even Alabama loses money overall on their sports (not terrible...but it's negative). Football makes all their money, and literally every other sport loses money. Most of the football money is made from SEC television rights.

Lburg has a very good D3 baseball team (won the D3 college world series)...at best, the baseball team breaks even (but probably doesn't).

Expanding D3 sports I guess gets more tuition revenue (?)...although, I don't know if the student population is expanding overall, vs. it is attracting more men to the campus. Many of these small D3 schools are now like 65%+ female.

Like it or not, sports is a draw. I know many rising seniors who are gearing for Tech and JMU b/c they want a "sports school." And those are just the students, not the athletes. And the fact that you feel the need to denigrate "D3" schools tells me you know very little about this topic overall. Those kids work hard and some D3 schools perform at a very high level, scrimmaging and beating lower level D2 and D1 schools.

Lburg has a very good baseball team, yes. But their FH team went several rounds into the NCAA tournament. Their track and XC teams are also very good. As well, so is their mens LAX. When we have visited, all of the sports events were well attended and supported. And lots of kids on each of these teams were athletic and academic all americans.

It remains to be seen if this will increase enrollment overall or not. But you don't know that any more than I do. And Lburg's M to FM ratio closer to 50/50.

You don't have to like the school but I know several kids having VERY good experiences there and who will grad debt free (I have a rising senior in HS and no one at the school).

This is nonsense. Lynchburg has a 96% acceptance rate and a 54% graduation rate. Few (if any) are Athletic AND Academic All Americans.

You’re an idiot. and an ignorant one. Their FH team alone had an ave. 3.69 gpa. 9 4.0 students. Head to IG ignoramus. It’s all there.

Sorry...I thought you meant these were HS academic All Americans. Those players are not going to Lynchburg.

However, do you really think it is that difficult to maintain a 3.5 GPA at Lynchburg?

Maintaining a 3.5 is an accomplishment anywhere. Your ignorance is showing again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://wapo.st/4b31Cky

Now, more than ever, families and students pursuing higher education opportunities must do their research into the financial viability of colleges as well as the long-term cost of tuition, student loans, and other expenses. In many cases, this is almost as big a financial investment as buying a home.

Our upper middle class neighbor's daughter is going to play soccer at some D3 college in the fall and they swear they're only paying $10,000 total all-in per year. Tells me these small colleges are extremely hard-up for students.

They are charging $10k because that’s all these under resourced colleges are worth. There is literally zero on-campus recruiting. They can’t afford expensive engineering or nursing depts. They’re a joke with tenured faculty, admins & local vendors all leeching off the dying carcass until they go insolvent.

They definitely have enough money to run an engineering or nursing department, they have $1bn lmao. It just goes against the purpose of a liberal arts college to derail your emphasis to practical, pre-professional majors only. You also, surprise surprise, don't need some good-looking woman who just got out of undergrad to come to your campus, so you can apply for a role. Just apply. Sadly, for you, they aren't going anywhere.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://wapo.st/4b31Cky

Now, more than ever, families and students pursuing higher education opportunities must do their research into the financial viability of colleges as well as the long-term cost of tuition, student loans, and other expenses. In many cases, this is almost as big a financial investment as buying a home.

Our upper middle class neighbor's daughter is going to play soccer at some D3 college in the fall and they swear they're only paying $10,000 total all-in per year. Tells me these small colleges are extremely hard-up for students.

They are charging $10k because that’s all these under resourced colleges are worth. There is literally zero on-campus recruiting. They can’t afford expensive engineering or nursing depts. They’re a joke with tenured faculty, admins & local vendors all leeching off the dying carcass until they go insolvent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://wapo.st/4b31Cky

Now, more than ever, families and students pursuing higher education opportunities must do their research into the financial viability of colleges as well as the long-term cost of tuition, student loans, and other expenses. In many cases, this is almost as big a financial investment as buying a home.

Our upper middle class neighbor's daughter is going to play soccer at some D3 college in the fall and they swear they're only paying $10,000 total all-in per year. Tells me these small colleges are extremely hard-up for students.

They are charging $10k because that’s all these under resourced colleges are worth. There is literally zero on-campus recruiting. They can’t afford expensive engineering or nursing depts. They’re a joke with tenured faculty, admins & local vendors all leeching off the dying carcass until they go insolvent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://wapo.st/4b31Cky

Now, more than ever, families and students pursuing higher education opportunities must do their research into the financial viability of colleges as well as the long-term cost of tuition, student loans, and other expenses. In many cases, this is almost as big a financial investment as buying a home.

Our upper middle class neighbor's daughter is going to play soccer at some D3 college in the fall and they swear they're only paying $10,000 total all-in per year. Tells me these small colleges are extremely hard-up for students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The colleges that will be in trouble:

For-profit colleges everywhere. Their scams have been exposed and their students often can't get aid. Good riddance.

Very small privates with small endowments that, as others have said, started out as: obscure women's colleges, junior colleges, or religiously affiliated with smaller and shrinking denominations that can no longer financially support them.

Larger privates with small endowments that grew recently, and especially those that are in shrinking parts of the US. High Point and Libertv are easy ones to see shrinking. I don't want to pick a fight with Northeastern boosters, but it's hard to see big enrollments continuing there when BU NEU, and maybe BC are all fishing in the same shrinking pool.

Non-flagship state colleges in dying parts of the country will shrink. They have almost no endowments and state legislatures will eventually push for shrinking and consolidating. This process is already underway in PA, with a few of its former teachers colleges (which all greatly expanded over the past 30 or 40 years) being slated to consolidate.

State flagships in declining states will shrink enrollment. They won't disappear, but enrollments will shrink at places like WVU, UMass, UNH, and Minnesota.

Agree with part but not the rest. High Point is growing not shrinking. You will see a larger and larger enrollment there. They are taking from the pool that you correctly say is in trouble. No idea on Liberty.

On Boston -- BC does not fish in the same water as BU never mind NEU. BC overlap are Ivy's, UVA, ND, and the like. If anything NEU is the safety for BC. I don't see NEU in trouble. They have a model and will take from the places below them.

I also do not see those state school you listed in any trouble or cutting back at all. They will all take from the failing pool of places that you listed. UMAss in particular. They will fill seats at the flagship from the non-flagships. Those will take seats from the failing ones.

I have to think that a place like High Point will be in trouble. It's grown like crazy by offering high end amenities to attract full-pay kids who can't get into places like Tulane or Wake Forest. When we go over the demographic cliff, Tulane and Wake Forest will say yes to those less than stellar, but full-pay, students. And if they need a little merit to be more attractive, they've got endowments to get them through the challenge. High Point is already accepting almost 80%. But even if they take everyone, they'll be left with a more needy group of students, and it will be hard to keep up the amenities. And once the amenities and the general sense of affluence are gone, then the magic is gone. And High Point will be in trouble.

High point was never known for academics. Wake and Tulane are known for decent academics. A lot of small liberal arts colleges in New York and PA will also be in trouble. Schools like Urisnus or Union are on shaky ground as is. With more kids choosing state schools, these schools will not have as many customers. A kid 20 years ago from the Northeast who would have gone to Union or WPI for engineering can get merit at Aubuurn or Purdue.

Why don't you do a little research instead of making up crap and typing it up?

Forbes give financial rankings of A+ to Union, A- to WPI, and B+ to Ursinus. Seems like they can all weather the storm.
But the one you defend, High Point, gets a C.

High Point seems like a house of cards that will eventually collapse.

\

With an endowment of 173+ million? Hardly.

Honestly, that's not very much.

+1 That's a low endowment! High Point has around 5k undergrads. Oberlin has about half as many undergraduates and an endowment of 1.2b--nearly 7x as much! And even if you go to the smaller LACs with smaller endowments in the midwest--
Wooster has 2000 students and an endowment of 370+m, Kenyon has 1900 students and a 500m+ endowment--even a very small school like Kalamazoo College with 1200 or so students has an endowment of 290+m, and none of these (except perhaps Oberlin's) are considered exceptionally large endowments--they are just "solid" ones for the school size. Each of those schools--even if they experience some enrollment declines/operational belt-tightening are in good financial shape because they have steadily grown their endowment over time. They all get in the A- to A+ range from Forbes.

This is why I believe the medium-sized universities with LAC endowments are next to crater. There's no way they have the capacity to provide a quality education and dorm/dining with how little money they have in the bank.

High Point is just fine. One of the things they do not do is discount very much. They get their full tuition pretty often. They are in full growth mode and taking students from other places. They also have no debt and have received about 500 million in donations in last several years, mostly to build their expanded campus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the schools that claim high tuition but absolutely none of their students pay that price.

Just reduce to the max rate, then give your scholarships from there.

They're delusional and like to price at their "peers" rate. For example, Oberlin believes its closest peers are Bowdoin, Wesleyan, Middlebury, Colgate, Haverford, and Vassar. The only one of these schools who they aren't immediately losing students to is Vassar, and Vassar is foolish enough to believe it is competing with Williams.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/who-does-your-college-think-its-peers-are?sra=true#id=197133