Anonymous wrote:I replaced a Rav4 (which was very reliable and got about 25 MPG) with a small KIA Niro EV. I drive about 1K miles per month to work and in the area, and do all of my charging at home overnight. Here are some of my cost observations:

I save about $150 per month in gas but my monthly electricity bill increased by about $15.

I no longer get seasonal oil changes or other fluid changes.

My auto insurance went up by about $500 annually after buying the EV (not sure what it would be if I bought a similarly priced new gas car).

In VA, I pay an extra $117 electric car fee annually to register the EV.

After 3 years, I needed new tires for the EV (about $750).

I spent about $2K for a 220V charging cable and plug installation.

However, this is all pennies compared to the depreciate of my EV. In another year or so, the 12 year Rav4 is is probably going to be worth more than the 5 year old Niro EV, which is tanking in value (down 70% since purchase).

Thanks for sharing. Resale values on EVs is a real issue currently.

I replaced a Rav4 (which was very reliable and got about 25 MPG) with a small KIA Niro EV. I drive about 1K miles per month to work and in the area, and do all of my charging at home overnight. Here are some of my cost observations:

I save about $150 per month in gas but my monthly electricity bill increased by about $15.

I no longer get seasonal oil changes or other fluid changes.

My auto insurance went up by about $500 annually after buying the EV (not sure what it would be if I bought a similarly priced new gas car).

In VA, I pay an extra $117 electric car fee annually to register the EV.

After 3 years, I needed new tires for the EV (about $750).

I spent about $2K for a 220V charging cable and plug installation.

However, this is all pennies compared to the depreciate of my EV. In another year or so, the 12 year Rav4 is is probably going to be worth more than the 5 year old Niro EV, which is tanking in value (down 70% since purchase).

Car and Driver attempts to answer this question. There was not a clear winner between EV and gas vehicles. https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32494027/ev-vs-gas-cheaper-to-own/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not buying an EV until I can get a full charge in 5 minutes with the convenience of gas stations.

You got this totally wrong. The reason you buy an EV is the convenience of charging (aka fueling) at home. Traveling to gas stations is totally inconvenient.

This is exactly how we view it. We save time not having to stop at a gas station. We have an EV and a plug in hybrid, and it’s been at least three months since we’ve stopped at a gas station.

We have 2 EV’s and an ICE and now see it this way as well. But it does require a suspension of belief in the beginning to get there. The truth is that yes, filling a tank with gas takes way less time than charging while on a road trip. But if you consider all the time spent skipping the gas station on regular days, plus all the time saved from oil changes, maintenance, etc, it starts to make sense. The way to think about it is that both types of cars require inconveniences, but we are so culturally used to filling up at the gas station, getting an oil change, going in for maintenance every 10k miles, that it seems like a baseline. The baseline should be zero maintenance, zero gas station visits, zero tire rotations, zero charging stops. And then compare how much time each type of car requires.

I had to fill the tank of my old ICE car (Acura mdx) 3 times a week after all the school runs and sports practices. That took 30 min out of my week that I now have back. Or 20 hours over the year, assuming I was doing that 40 weeks of the year.

We live in a mountain town and I like having one ICE car because of one scenario - going on a road trip and having to outrun weather. I chose the EV to make a 800 mile trip to California, but I chose the ICE to make a 5 hour trip and beat an oncoming snowstorm. And as far as comfort and driving experience? EV all the way. ICE car gets 2-3k miles a year and the EV’s get the lion’s share.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not buying an EV until I can get a full charge in 5 minutes with the convenience of gas stations.

You got this totally wrong. The reason you buy an EV is the convenience of charging (aka fueling) at home. Traveling to gas stations is totally inconvenient.

This is exactly how we view it. We save time not having to stop at a gas station. We have an EV and a plug in hybrid, and it’s been at least three months since we’ve stopped at a gas station.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve got 80,000 miles on a 12-year-old gas car and 18,000 miles on a 3-year-old EV, so I feel pretty confident I’m never going to need to worry too much about how much range the EV loses by 200,000 miles.

There does seem to be a lot of opposition to EVs in this thread that’s based on worst-case scenarios or rare situations rather than real-life use.

My neighbors regularly take their Tesla to their second home in NC. Full chargers takes 20 minutes and they often have to wait 20 minutes for their turn. This is not worse case. This is every time they go. They also have to stop twice on a trip where an ICE car would only need to stop once.

I have an EV, and I don’t find stopping for 20 minutes on a four-hour road trip (or stopping twice) to be such a horrible experience. If that seems terrible to you, I agree, maybe don’t get an EV. But I also never have to get gas or stop at a rapid charger literally any other time, because I just plug the car in in my driveway.

+1. I would normally stop every 2 or 3 hours during a road trip anyway because I like to stretch and walk around. Someone who wants to do road trips with the least amount of stopping time should not get an EV.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most energy- and cost-efficient car you can buy is likely the new Prius, or the Prius Prime.

(The Prius Prime you can plug into a normal outlet, get 30 miles or so of all-electric range, and if you go farther than that, the gasoline engine kicks in and it becomes a regular hybrid.)

As someone who owns the new Prius Prime, yes.

I have visited a gas station just a few times since getting it last summer. Weather depending, I have 49 miles on a charge. 95% of the time its an EV.

The premium you paid for the Prius Prime compared to just the regular Prius hybrid will take you about 8 years to break even.

And I don’t care. I would have gotten the highest end package on the regular hybrid and I got the middle package on the prime so its about even. And I did not pay over MSRP.

Anonymous wrote:I'm not buying an EV until I can get a full charge in 5 minutes with the convenience of gas stations.

You got this totally wrong. The reason you buy an EV is the convenience of charging (aka fueling) at home. Traveling to gas stations is totally inconvenient.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve got 80,000 miles on a 12-year-old gas car and 18,000 miles on a 3-year-old EV, so I feel pretty confident I’m never going to need to worry too much about how much range the EV loses by 200,000 miles.

There does seem to be a lot of opposition to EVs in this thread that’s based on worst-case scenarios or rare situations rather than real-life use.

My neighbors regularly take their Tesla to their second home in NC. Full chargers takes 20 minutes and they often have to wait 20 minutes for their turn. This is not worse case. This is every time they go. They also have to stop twice on a trip where an ICE car would only need to stop once.

I have an EV, and I don’t find stopping for 20 minutes on a four-hour road trip (or stopping twice) to be such a horrible experience. If that seems terrible to you, I agree, maybe don’t get an EV. But I also never have to get gas or stop at a rapid charger literally any other time, because I just plug the car in in my driveway.

Anonymous wrote:I’ve got 80,000 miles on a 12-year-old gas car and 18,000 miles on a 3-year-old EV, so I feel pretty confident I’m never going to need to worry too much about how much range the EV loses by 200,000 miles.

There does seem to be a lot of opposition to EVs in this thread that’s based on worst-case scenarios or rare situations rather than real-life use.

My neighbors regularly take their Tesla to their second home in NC. Full chargers takes 20 minutes and they often have to wait 20 minutes for their turn. This is not worse case. This is every time they go. They also have to stop twice on a trip where an ICE car would only need to stop once.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some EVs include a tax credit for $7500. Did you factor that in?

Also less maintenance -- no oil changes, spark plugs, etc needed.

EVs eat through tires very quickly. Tires can easily be $1,000 for four.

20% faster. So, that’s roughly a $200 penalty or around 1.333 dealer oil changes. In a city, you’re lucky to get full use of your tires before you put a hole in one and need to replace a pair. I don’t think I’ve had worn out treads in 15 years.

No idea what you are talking about. I have only replaced tires due to low treads, and I have lived in many cities.

Ok, well then by your numbers you’re looking at a $200 penalty for EV wear and tear on tires spread out over 80% of the time it takes you to wear out your ICE tires.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some EVs include a tax credit for $7500. Did you factor that in?

Also less maintenance -- no oil changes, spark plugs, etc needed.

EVs eat through tires very quickly. Tires can easily be $1,000 for four.

20% faster. So, that’s roughly a $200 penalty or around 1.333 dealer oil changes. In a city, you’re lucky to get full use of your tires before you put a hole in one and need to replace a pair. I don’t think I’ve had worn out treads in 15 years.

No idea what you are talking about. I have only replaced tires due to low treads, and I have lived in many cities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some EVs include a tax credit for $7500. Did you factor that in?

Also less maintenance -- no oil changes, spark plugs, etc needed.

EVs eat through tires very quickly. Tires can easily be $1,000 for four.

20% faster. So, that’s roughly a $200 penalty or around 1.333 dealer oil changes. In a city, you’re lucky to get full use of your tires before you put a hole in one and need to replace a pair. I don’t think I’ve had worn out treads in 15 years.

Anonymous wrote:Some EVs include a tax credit for $7500. Did you factor that in?

Also less maintenance -- no oil changes, spark plugs, etc needed.

EVs eat through tires very quickly. Tires can easily be $1,000 for four.

Anonymous wrote:Depends on where you live. Major city with chargers and you have an at home charger? Yes. If not no it doesn’t and makes life more stressful. I just did a huge road trip that took me through Texas which is the US home of Tesla and outside of Austin and Houston I didn’t see any charging centers. It would have been a pain to do this trip had I had a Tesla.

You can easily go from Houston to El Paso with high speed chargers along the entire route.

Going from Abilene to Amarillo through Lubbock you may have some problems. But who the hell wants to do that anyway?

In general, throughout the US there are high speed charging stations along all interstates about every 120 miles.

Just because you don’t see them doesn’t mean they aren’t there.