Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a top 25 school. He went through the summer internship interview process last year but didn’t land an internship with any of the prestigious employers people talk about here - banks, asset managers, consulting, etc. His school is so bloody competitive and there are so many hard driving and high achieving kids and, I guess, only this many spots at these firms per school. Kid has been pretty devastated.

But what has made it worse is seeing kids from lower ranked schools on LinkedIn, think 150+, who end up with internships at such places! I realise how this comes off but it is deeply upsetting when kid had to work SO hard to get into a top school and then see kids who have worked less hard, coming from schools with 80%+ acceptance rates, end up with opportunities that we have been told are easier to get as top school grads.

Kid just feels, what was the point of busting his behind so hard, he could have taken it easier, enjoyed high school a bit more, could have gone to a lower ranked school and still ended up at BlackRock or JP Morgan or Bain. And, of course, I haven’t shared this with him, but I’ve started feeling the same way.

Can you wrap your mind around the proposition that students at lower ranked schools also work hard?

There are a lot of assumptions in these two sentences.

Not OP. Can you in all honesty say that the AVERAGE kid at a 150+ school has worked as hard in high school as the AVERAGE kid at Princeton or MIT?? I think not but I’d be happy for people to prove me wrong.

- Grad of 150+ school who remembers what his average classmates were like

Some very smart hard working kids need to go to lower ranked schools because of merit.

And those kids tend to be more humble than the smug future masters of the universe. That also counts for a lot - Mom of one of the kids OP referenced

Anonymous[b wrote:]It’s called nepotism and personality

[/b]

not, it's about grit, work ethic and sometimes parental influence.

Anonymous wrote:We’ve said this many times. It doesn’t matter where you go to school if you are charismatic, a hard worker and can network. My husband is one of those people. You never heard of his college. He’s a people person and thrives in social business meetings over dinner or drinks.

He is every bit as smart as me even though he went to a community college and a no name school. You heard of my college. No one asks either of us where we went to college now. No one cares about your degree after your first job.

+1

I think the Top 25 still have a lock on placing into investment banking and PE. My kid is at one of the 150+ ranked institutions OP mentions and was hired by one of the firms he mentioned, but not in IB.

He hopes to work his way into PE or IB from within his employer’s ranks, or after B School. He was not able to get into a top school because he was an immature goof off in high school, like a lot of other boys. He’s every bit as smart as the kids at the top schools - he was just lazy in HS.

He wised up and worked his ass off to land his prestigious job. He treated his intern search - from freshman year on - as another class, and ended up spending more time on the search than anything else in college, because it was that important to him.

His goof of skills also morphed into amazing social skills. He is a pleasure to be with, looks people in the eye, has a firm handshake, and networks like crazy.

You sound like one of the people who doesn't understand that the elite college experience has very little to do with academic performance and everything to do with making connections.

Read "The Years That Matter Most" by Paul Tough -- he explores this in some depth (and it's a great book).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked for a Big 4 consulting firm starting in the mid 90’s. What a time. Here were some of the valuable KSA’s then:

- Knowledge of Bourbon and Cigars
- Skill to strike a golf ball just so
- Ability to carry on a conversation

Success was about building relationships.

That explains a ton about why the C suite is full of good ole boys who think women are arm candy.

Hopefully, they will die out soon and serious professionals can take over.

Troll to inflame. The answer today is grit, perseverance, using the college's career office and parental influence/contacts.

and that's the answer. Kid has to kick butt to distinguish themselves. Has to work the counseling office. if parents have contacts they use them. Why is this not obvious?

You are quite ignorant, OP

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Life is about the hustle. You have to hustle to get anywhere in life. Even going to a top school, you have to hustle. No one gives you anything in life.

My husband owns a company and no longer like to hire from MIT or other top engineering schools because the student are quick to tell you where they went to school but don’t actually work much. The ego and entitlement make them difficult teammates and employees. He would rather hire a hard worker from a second tier university.

This is a fact. Our firm doesn’t hire Ivy League grads anymore because they lack the work ethic and aren’t team players.

What a load of crap. I doubt that you have ever met any current or past Ivy league or MIT students.

+1. These kids are smart AND hard-working. There are probably some who coast, or maybe some who are poor fits at the company they join, but not the vast majority.

No, after years of dealing with them, the juice is not worth the squeeze. They make terrible teammates and employees. Huge egos that have been fed BS by parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked for a Big 4 consulting firm starting in the mid 90’s. What a time. Here were some of the valuable KSA’s then:

- Knowledge of Bourbon and Cigars
- Skill to strike a golf ball just so
- Ability to carry on a conversation

Success was about building relationships.

That explains a ton about why the C suite is full of good ole boys who think women are arm candy.

Hopefully, they will die out soon and serious professionals can take over.

Troll to inflame. The answer today is grit, perseverance, using the college's career office and parental influence/contacts.

It’s called nepotism and personality

OP do you work? Would you want to work with someone who is pleasant and competent but didn't go to a top school or someone with a loaded resume that you really could care less about?

I mean common sense would confer that the best case is a mix of great education +personality. Just because you have a lot of one area does not give you an edge over someone with equal parts. There's so many kids of people in this world and a school transcript hardly counts as the end all and be all of "best" people. There's so many different kinds of "best."

Is this a joke? Why would I look at us news report rankings to pick my hires. Those kids get plenty of advantages with recruiting at schools etc but who said they were best employees.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all, disabuse yourself of the notion that students who went to lower ranked schools "worked less hard." Students opt for lower ranked schools for many reasons that have nothing to do with their brains or work ethic - financial, geographic, athletic, etc. Perhaps they do have connections at the firms you mentioned, or perhaps they actually work harder than your son -- higher GPAs, more impressive extracurriculars, leadership roles, relevant work experience, research, etc.

Yes but you can look at common data set and majority doesn't have high grades and scores high enough for top schools.

But we're not talking about the majority. No "majority" from any school is at Bain, Goldman, etc. We're talking about the *top* students. At many "lower ranked" schools, there are students who have the grades and scores for top schools.

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a top 25 school. He went through the summer internship interview process last year but didn’t land an internship with any of the prestigious employers people talk about here - banks, asset managers, consulting, etc. His school is so bloody competitive and there are so many hard driving and high achieving kids and, I guess, only this many spots at these firms per school. Kid has been pretty devastated.

But what has made it worse is seeing kids from lower ranked schools on LinkedIn, think 150+, who end up with internships at such places! I realise how this comes off but it is deeply upsetting when kid had to work SO hard to get into a top school and then see [/b]kids who have worked less hard, coming from schools with 80%+ acceptance rates, [b]end up with opportunities that we have been told are easier to get as top school grads.

Kid just feels, what was the point of busting his behind so hard, he could have taken it easier, enjoyed high school a bit more, could have gone to a lower ranked school and still ended up at BlackRock or JP Morgan or Bain. And, of course, I haven’t shared this with him, but I’ve started feeling the same way.

Don’t assume kids at lower ranked schools worked less hard than your DS in either HS or in college. There are many reasons why students end up at the schools they attend.

Moreover, I’ve watched students land great internships no matter the rank of their school because of their talent and initiative. Internship aren’t meant to be a door prize for attending a highly ranked school.

Lastly, even lower ranked schools have enthusiastic and well connected alum who are in positions to offer internships or help students network.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another hiring partner weighing in. We hire the person with experience. So long as I have heard of your school, you did well and have experience that lines up with our field, you get an interview. Does not matter of it is Princeton or Vanderbilt or Ohio Wesleyan or Cal State Poly or CNU or High Point etc. Once you get the interview, we hire the person with the best personality and experience in our field. The name of the school does not matter.

- Signed person who went to a fancy school who now works along side people who went to schools I had never heard of making a nice amount of $$ and fair amount of prestige.

I appreciate hearing from people like you. So may I ask another question (I"m a new poster). My kid did horribly his first year in a very well respected business school--and still struggles on and off, because of ADHD. He is incredibly and hard-working, but because his GPA is a 2.8, cannot land an internship anywhere for after his junior year. Will he ever be able to get a job? He is personable, earnest, hard-working and smart. Just inconsistent.

Exec and Corp Recruiter here - an internship is the best way to gain experience as a young person. It goes a really long way toward the first job. That being said, in a first job, I'm looking for a great attitude and personality. Someone I want to present to my hiring manager as a trustworthy hire who isnt going to jump ship when more money is offered or what not. Someone who's willing to do what it takes without drama and very importantly who wants to stay with the organization and do that kind of work. So take that perspective and translate it to how your kid can demonstrate this to an employer. You may have to find an organization that either has less competition from other applicants or get lucky and find a personality jackpot where someone just likes your kid. It will take more time and effort reaching out to successfully find the internship but it can bd done. Get off the GPA thing and focus on your kids strengths as a person in pitching for an opportunity. I hire entry level a lot and although on paper GPA matters, if someone wrote me a particularly striking cover letter, maybe I take a second look. If you send me a LinkedIn note and introduced yourself maybe I take notice of you as well.

I'm an exec recruiter and echo many PP sentiments on who you know and sift skills as strongest drivers for prof introductions leading to opportunities. In the real world it's not about pedigree. Certain industries require it but for your typical F500 company, there's so many ways to find your way to the top and even if the middle, jobs that pay well and are prestigious or impressive in title. There's a whole lot of companies and jobs out there. It's more competitive in that you have to be more impressive in context of how many people have to like you and how much the like you over the other person but by and large connections are key. Having said that, if you are smart, you find a way in. Typically if you are able to go to a top school, et al, you can impress just as well. So if comes down to a bit of luck, personality and connections. There's no one way in which is to sag it's a myth that says you have to go to a top school to be successful or get a great job.

The other component is the ability to do sales and read people. My kids go to a school where they are more about being well rounded than pure academics. I like that because in the real world, people don't focus on how well you actually do things but how well it seems like you know what you're doing. Sad but true. Most people are easily impressed and if you understand how to read people, it's much more valuable than an academic education. This is true for business oriented industries v being a doctor/engineer/attorney of course but on the whole, life is about interacting with others not with books.

I say to my kids all the time it doesn't matter where they go to school but it does matter what they want to do, how they want their lifestyle to be. Starting at the bottom is not really a problem if you know what you're doing to get to where you want to be.