Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

That's well said. I also think this thread (and many others) highlights the contradictory messaging and expectations for parents that are undermining healthy parenting and our kids' development. On the one hand, parents are blamed for helicoptering. We should step back and let our kids fail. On the other hand, when they fail, we are continually reminded that their failure is a reflection of our poor parenting. Don't derive your self-worth from your kids' successes, but also, you failed if your kid isn't perfect. Which is it? If we are to blame for them not showering once they are off to college, why wouldn't a professor be surprised when a parent contacts them?

I say this as a parent of a kid who is as much of a rule-follower as you can get, who easily fell into that state with little oversight from me. I have another kid who is the opposite and will likely wind up in therapy because my ceaseless efforts to force him to do what came easily to his sibling are interpreted as a lack of faith and belief in him.

I think the point is that you let them fail when they are KIDS, so that when they are adults and go to college, they don't look like buffoons.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m a staff member at a university, so I’ve seen a lot of exceptional student behavior, and a lot of entitled/inept student behavior.

My question to you are: why are you, at this point, blaming the parents for the behavior you see in 18+ college students?

When I was in college, I occasionally skipped class, I definitely didn’t study hard enough, and I flubbed the start time of two finals. I once tried to engage the “help” of government and politics faculty members because of essentially a phishing scheme related to human rights violations. (It was the early days of the Internet, but…cringe!)

I had some growing up to do. On my own. That’s…rather the point of college.

My parents didn’t fail to tell me to go to every class, they didn’t fail to raise me to set alarm clocks, they didn’t fail to teach me how to use calendars and budget my time and check syllabi and read through instructions, etc. They didn’t fail to tell me not to drink too much, and to stay with friends and stay safe and not walk alone, etc., etc.

I didn’t follow every rule, guideline, and bit of advice they gave me. Did you?

I agree with you that parents should never be in contact with faculty/staff/administration/RAs unless there is some actual emergency. But other than that, your finger-wagging at parents for their college students not being fully-formed, fully responsible adults is just…way off-base.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I generally agree with the points, just not the tone.

I have a comment about the syllabus, though. Most high school kids have never seen a detailed college syllabus. They don't exist at the high school level.
My freshman called me one night to report her shock that her professors had the entire semester's content and schedule in one document. She was surprised that they don't just give out the next topic or test date in class a week or so in advance, as teachers had done at every level of her prior schooling.

Really?

Even in my Midwest high school in the 1990’s we had class syllabus (granted it wasn’t as detailed as college ones but we had the topics and dates of assignments/tests outlined.

Your kid must have really not been paying attention.

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

It CAN be. But often (usually, TBH) it's not.

Sure, okay. So…what then? Are we just venting and blaming? What moves the discussion, and families/kids, forward?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

That's well said. I also think this thread (and many others) highlights the contradictory messaging and expectations for parents that are undermining healthy parenting and our kids' development. On the one hand, parents are blamed for helicoptering. We should step back and let our kids fail. On the other hand, when they fail, we are continually reminded that their failure is a reflection of our poor parenting. Don't derive your self-worth from your kids' successes, but also, you failed if your kid isn't perfect. Which is it? If we are to blame for them not showering once they are off to college, why wouldn't a professor be surprised when a parent contacts them?

I say this as a parent of a kid who is as much of a rule-follower as you can get, who easily fell into that state with little oversight from me. I have another kid who is the opposite and will likely wind up in therapy because my ceaseless efforts to force him to do what came easily to his sibling are interpreted as a lack of faith and belief in him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

That's well said. I also think this thread (and many others) highlights the contradictory messaging and expectations for parents that are undermining healthy parenting and our kids' development. On the one hand, parents are blamed for helicoptering. We should step back and let our kids fail. On the other hand, when they fail, we are continually reminded that their failure is a reflection of our poor parenting. Don't derive your self-worth from your kids' successes, but also, you failed if your kid isn't perfect. Which is it? If we are to blame for them not showering once they are off to college, why wouldn't a professor be surprised when a parent contacts them?

I say this as a parent of a kid who is as much of a rule-follower as you can get, who easily fell into that state with little oversight from me. I have another kid who is the opposite and will likely wind up in therapy because my ceaseless efforts to force him to do what came easily to his sibling are interpreted as a lack of faith and belief in him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

It CAN be. But often (usually, TBH) it's not.

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

Anonymous wrote:NP. Everyone is talking past each other. OP’s points are valid and valuable, and an important reminder — perhaps *especially* to those of us (waves hand) with neurodivergent kids.

It’s too bad that OP layered on top of these meaningful insights subjective judgments and broad generalizations, like all-caps “LAZINESS” and statements like “these kids are clearly being raised without consequences.” It’s these things, not the underlying points, that invited people to say “actually, it can be more complicated than mere parental neglect and child laziness.”

The skills are essential. And also, it can be more complicated. Both things are true. What would be most useful would be tips for helping kids get there — especially from parents whose kids took longer than peers to gain the skills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I generally agree with the points, just not the tone.

I have a comment about the syllabus, though. Most high school kids have never seen a detailed college syllabus. They don't exist at the high school level.
My freshman called me one night to report her shock that her professors had the entire semester's content and schedule in one document. She was surprised that they don't just give out the next topic or test date in class a week or so in advance, as teachers had done at every level of her prior schooling.

Really?

Even in my Midwest high school in the 1990’s we had class syllabus (granted it wasn’t as detailed as college ones but we had the topics and dates of assignments/tests outlined.

Your kid must have really not been paying attention.

Anonymous wrote:I generally agree with the points, just not the tone.

I have a comment about the syllabus, though. Most high school kids have never seen a detailed college syllabus. They don't exist at the high school level.
My freshman called me one night to report her shock that her professors had the entire semester's content and schedule in one document. She was surprised that they don't just give out the next topic or test date in class a week or so in advance, as teachers had done at every level of her prior schooling.