Anonymous wrote:I admitedly don’t have my head in the new rankings nor changes in the methodology. But I read Vanderbilt’s statement with interest. If what they say is correct as to why their rank dropped, why wouldn’t the same have occurred to countless other smaller private colleges like Johns Hopkins and Emory? All the privates didn’t drop in rank, correct?

Both those schools dropped just not much. 2 spots.

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Anonymous wrote:Wake wasn't really relatively popular compared to lower ranked schools like BU, BC, Tufts, Northeastern.

I'm not sure why it was ranked so high in the first place, but it has appeal to some kids.

I don't think they will suddenly switch to large public.

Wake was more popular last year at our private than any of these schools other than BC. I don’t see that changing. I expect all of these schools will be just fine.

I think Wake will be hurt but I think it’s a pretty good school still. Along with Case Western and Rochester. But BU, Tulane, and Northeastern? I think they were overhyped recently.

I don't believe schools like BU and Northeastern attract the same type of students as Wake.
Personally, I think BU and Northeastern offer greater potential for a better student experience and more opportunities.

What is the better student experience? Seems much worse to me at BU and NEU.

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Anonymous wrote:Wake wasn't really relatively popular compared to lower ranked schools like BU, BC, Tufts, Northeastern.

I'm not sure why it was ranked so high in the first place, but it has appeal to some kids.

I don't think they will suddenly switch to large public.

Wake was more popular last year at our private than any of these schools other than BC. I don’t see that changing. I expect all of these schools will be just fine.

I think Wake will be hurt but I think it’s a pretty good school still. Along with Case Western and Rochester. But BU, Tulane, and Northeastern? I think they were overhyped recently.

I don't believe schools like BU and Northeastern attract the same type of students as Wake.
Personally, I think BU and Northeastern offer greater potential for a better student experience and more opportunities.

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Anonymous wrote:All of these posters insisting that the huge drop that Wake, Wash U and Tulane had in the rankings isn’t going to turn off applicants are kidding themselves. It was their high rankings that led to so many applications in recent years in the first place. Get real.

Can anyone think of a precedent? Ideally with ballpark similar starting points and drops in ranking. Also, ideally not due to not sending data to USNWR.

I see strong opinions going both ways, so would be interesting to have some empirical evidence. I guess we're about to see, unless perhaps schools start adjusting admissions or whatever to improve.

The only school that I can remember plummeting like this is Oberlin and they seem to still be getting the kind of students that they've always gotten

They plummeted again this year.

Oberlin without question isn’t getting the same students it’s
gotten a decade ago. Certainly not the same as a decade ago.

You need facts to back that up. Because, the numbers I see say that’s not the case.

At any rate, Oberlin is a niche school. A certain type of kid will do very well there— work very hard, accomplish a lot, and have the space to grow as a person. I’m a fan and my kid has had amazing STEM opportunities. But many kids would hate it. So, I long ago stopped encouraging everyone to send their kid their or insisting it was the one best LAC. It’s definitely has very rigorous academics, but it’s not for every kid. If your kid is interested, they should definitely visit. Most kids feel strongly one way or another once they have spent time on campus.

A generation ago it was a top 10 liberal arts college. It’s nowhere near that today. Kenyon is more selective, and Kenyon is the definition of back up school.

According to US news, Oberlin accepted more than a third of its applicants last year. That’s a lot. No top LAC is nearly that generous.

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Anonymous wrote:So people think that instead of Wake Forest and Tufts, high achieving upper income kids are going to be applying to Davis, Merced and Rutgers? I don’t see it.

No, more like Florida State, Minnesota, etc.

Not necessarily the wealthy kids but plenty of upper middle class kids will think twice.

We fit in this demographic. We have HHI $450K. Healthy college savings. But spending $90K for a university ranked 50 or 75 seems much less appealing than spending it on a school ranked in the 20s.
Why not spend $25K for Florida and leave the rest for graduate, medical or law school?

Why? The rankings do not indicate quality of education. For an upper middle class family, a significant percentage of the rankings criteria (specifically the part that hurt these schools) is absolutely irrelevant.

DP but I feel like for most educated, upper middle class DMV families, rankings matter. The truly wealthy will send their kid happily to SMU and the middle class will be thrilled with a Maryland acceptance. Just looking at the Senior college class pages in May, numerous people backed out of their initial college choice once they got into one higher ranked. I don’t think I saw anyone go to a lower ranked school off the waitlist.

SMU is massively underrated to be fair

Agreed, even if only for mating purposes alone. (Texan)

Stop. SMU is a great (smallish) school with many wealthy, preppy kids. I know many kids from the DMV that have attended in the past couple years. If you want "mating purposes", the University of Texas is the place to be.

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Anonymous wrote:funny that some of you all think that the drop in ranking means that the quality of education is an issue. You cant tell me that all those public schools that have climbed up offer better education than these. It's a known fact that Diversity is an issue at some of the privates like Wake Forest and few are on Pell Grants.

They might offer a better education. You have nothing to back up which has a better quality of education. Plus diversity is very important to a lot of people. Who wants to go to a college that’s 99% White?

First, I doubt the schools are 99% white, but apparently a number of people choose small class sizes and quality of undergraduate education over a 500+ lecture hall that is teeming with diversity.

This is what I don’t get. I went to one of these small classes privates, so I get that diversity of opinion and background is very important in a discussion based class. But in a huge lecture? Not sure why it’s important to a good education. Especially if your kid is going to live in a suite with friends, go Greek, move off campus with friends sophomore year, and generally not spend much out of class time with poors. What’s the point of a diverse college if your kid is shielded from really interactions with diverse people?

Now, I get there is a social reason for DEI, and I support it— especially for public schools that should serve the whole public. I’m just not sure what DEI adds unless you have small classes, discussions, 4 year residential requirements— something that forces you to interact with and learn from people who aren’t like you.

That’s why the ranking are so strange to me. They reward DEI— in the colleges that are least able to use it to make a vibrant learning community.

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Anonymous wrote:funny that some of you all think that the drop in ranking means that the quality of education is an issue. You cant tell me that all those public schools that have climbed up offer better education than these. It's a known fact that Diversity is an issue at some of the privates like Wake Forest and few are on Pell Grants.

They might offer a better education. You have nothing to back up which has a better quality of education. Plus diversity is very important to a lot of people. Who wants to go to a college that’s 99% White?

First, I doubt the schools are 99% white, but apparently a number of people choose small class sizes and quality of undergraduate education over a 500+ lecture hall that is teeming with diversity.

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Anonymous wrote:All of these posters insisting that the huge drop that Wake, Wash U and Tulane had in the rankings isn’t going to turn off applicants are kidding themselves. It was their high rankings that led to so many applications in recent years in the first place. Get real.

Can anyone think of a precedent? Ideally with ballpark similar starting points and drops in ranking. Also, ideally not due to not sending data to USNWR.

I see strong opinions going both ways, so would be interesting to have some empirical evidence. I guess we're about to see, unless perhaps schools start adjusting admissions or whatever to improve.

The only school that I can remember plummeting like this is Oberlin and they seem to still be getting the kind of students that they've always gotten

They plummeted again this year.

Oberlin without question isn’t getting the same students it’s
gotten a decade ago. Certainly not the same as a decade ago.

You need facts to back that up. Because, the numbers I see say that’s not the case.

At any rate, Oberlin is a niche school. A certain type of kid will do very well there— work very hard, accomplish a lot, and have the space to grow as a person. I’m a fan and my kid has had amazing STEM opportunities. But many kids would hate it. So, I long ago stopped encouraging everyone to send their kid their or insisting it was the one best LAC. It’s definitely has very rigorous academics, but it’s not for every kid. If your kid is interested, they should definitely visit. Most kids feel strongly one way or another once they have spent time on campus.

Anonymous wrote:Wake Forest is one of a small number of mid-size universities similar to W&M that have strong undergraduate teaching programs with small class sizes and excellent faculty. These schools will continue to thrive because the demand for those types of schools exceeds the number of seats available.

They will get fewer applications because some parents chase the schools rankings, so while overall acceptance rates may rise, the overall quality of students accepted and attending will not change.

Wake alum here with a kid at WM. And I agree that the schools have a lot in common academically And my kid’s WM experience has been very similar academically to what mine was. It hits the same “not 1800 kids total in the middle of nowhere” SLAC profile (and before you yell, I also have a kid who went to one of these 1800 kids in the middle of nowhere SLACs and it was great for them), but still small classes, great professor accessibility, noTAs, undergrad focus. They also are both in USNWR National Us (and not LACs) primarily because of professional schools and not PhD students. That matters, because PhDs get first crack at research and teach undergrads. Great for the PhD candidates. Not so great for the undergrads.

That said, WM is less Southern and more liberal on whole than Wake. WM student body is less affluent (mind you, it’s still affluent, but many more Wake kids are downright rich). WM is less athletics focused (ACC football and basketball mattered at Wake even though it doesn’t have SEC tye athletics), and WM has a much weaker Greek system. So, socially, they are different.

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Anonymous wrote:funny that some of you all think that the drop in ranking means that the quality of education is an issue. You cant tell me that all those public schools that have climbed up offer better education than these. It's a known fact that Diversity is an issue at some of the privates like Wake Forest and few are on Pell Grants.

They might offer a better education. You have nothing to back up which has a better quality of education. Plus diversity is very important to a lot of people. Who wants to go to a college that’s 99% White?

Please tell us which of these schools is 99 percent white.

Exactly! These schools are not 99 % white. Wake is even offering early action to first Gen starting this year.