My consulting firm has a test we give as an excuse to reject children of employees/clients. I think that for some people there can be a bit more flexibility with the required score, but it still gives us an out. Our work isn't particularly quantitative so the test isn't actually that relevant, but it helps. "Sorry, Thurston Howell V from Fairfield bombed the test. We can't hire him. But keep sending us business!"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s clear that your kid doesn’t understand how to get these jobs. It’s not as simple as applying. It’s also not as simple as “nepo baby.” Unfortunately, career services at even better privates are oftentimes almost useless and don’t help students plan their future and act accordingly.

+1 not speaking about bucknell, but at my DS’s school, certain frats basically control the “best” investment clubs, and kids work for each other’s dad’s firm in summers (so you can’t check linkedin and see family connects). My DS is pre med. We don’t have the connects for IB.

OP here. I find it awful how boys club the finance world continues to be in a country that is all about “equality” and the American dream anyone can achieve if they work hard. It’s a quite socialist mentality how these kdis are born into a certain class where they will be guaranteed admission to a decent school as long as parents have the money and can float through 4 years of undergrad by getting cheat sheets from frat brothers and inevitable summer internships every year. Both husband and I are from a different country and are not used to this whole frat, athlete dominated society of Wall Street who get these high paying jobs from their dad’s friends not from actually working hard. In Ireland where we’re from, you either have the smarts or you don’t to get into these universities and obtain these jobs. For example, a 3.0 kid at a rich kid school like bucknell would never be able to get into the most sought after Irish colleges like trinity and university college Dublin. The kids in the finance majors at the mentioned schools are there for their high Leaving Cert marks(Irish version of a levels).

Send your kid to Ireland and work your connections there! Maybe he can get a great EU job.

OP you don’t seem to understand the big picture. I say this as someone who is Irish (but didn’t go to Uni there) and met her Irish dh when we were both working on wall st.
First of all, if your son wanted investment baking, Bucknell was not the right choice. I don’t know if any banks that actively recruit there. Princeton, Williams, Duke, etc would have been better choices. All the banks recruit on campus at th top feeder schools. Each one probably hires 3 or 4 summer interns from each school, and it’s an active pipeline with decent grads going back for the recruiting events. At somewhere like Bucknell, your son is going to have to actively reach out to every connection he can find. He should use the career center and find contacts for all Bucknell alums who work at any firms he’d be interested in. He needs to then look them up and find something to slightly personalize each email. He should do the same with all alums from whatever team or fraternity he’s in. If he can’t do these basics, he’d be a bad hire anyways.
You also seem to be confusing baking w/ wealth management. If he can’t schmooze and work connections, then he’d be terrible at wealth management. You seem to think he has an out bc he wasn’t born with connections. I am talking about working his Bucknell connections. See if any alums from his hs are in the field and reach out. Talk to his favorite professors and see if they have any former students to put him in touch with. If he can’t do these basics, he’ll stay bottom rung in wealth management, and it’s not for him.
Some of the best hires I’ve seen have been first generation college grads, but they have the grit to really make the effort and have done great. It’s not about the connections that were handed to you.
For investment banking, 9 times out of 10, the kid who you are writing off as having a low gpa or being a lacrosse bro or whatever will be a better employee. The work isn’t rocket science, and even the summer analysts go through intense training. Anyone can do the actual work. The kid who has played club and then college sports and is used to little sleep and juggling things isn’t going to bat an eye when something changes last minute and we have two almost all nighters. The 4.0, regimented, book smart kid will crumble. I’ve seen it over and over. I want the kid who will be at ease with clients and can make small talk on a plane or at a restaurant. You either have this or you don’t, and it’s hard to teach a 22 year old this.
As far as leaving cert, don’t even get me started. It’s such an awful system because it doesn’t take into account anything with interpersonal skills, writing (other than a stupid little thing they can practice for), interviewing skills, executive functioning, etc. My dh and I have tons of Irish grads reach out. 4 out of 5 from the top schools end up being absolutely terrible. They’d probably be good for a math phd or actuarial job but zero chance they’d even make it out of the summer analyst program.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people assume that kids with very successful parents or legacies are stupid? They have high IQ parents and are raised from birth surrounded by books, private schools, exposure to intellectual conversations at the dinner table, world travel, etc. Strivers think these kids are idiots or getting a 1350 on their SAT.

The strivers have a desperate need to believe they have more merit than the legacies, it’s central to their personal narrative. Unfortunately for the strivers they’ll never actually fit in.

It baffles me. These legacy and nepo kids are often very, very smart.

And insular, but subtly so. That’s why the
parents who think getting their kid into an Ivy will guarantee entry into this world my marriage are naive, IME.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really frustrates me as DS is very hard working and going into senior year at Bucknell. Many of his classmates with loaded parents with connections on Wall Street have gotten their kids internships for the summer at companies like JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, even Goldman Sachs. Kid feels discouraged. He has a 3.8 gpa, good extracurriculars but got shunned away in favor of kids whose dad golfs with the vp of wealth management and has a 3.0 gpa and subpar involvement in college besides frats. It makes me feel like I'm wasting my money on bucknell as these schools only pay off if you have prior family wealth and connections to launch your career in investment banking and finance. Also, how are these kids who barely ut the work in during the school year manage to work these long, long hours in these internships? Are these repo babies given a pass if daddy is there at work today supervising?

The problem is your son didn’t understand the point of attending Bucknell…it’s not to get a 3.8 (but that’s great)…it’s to become friends with the rich kids you lament…and get hooked up with a job.

This. My son wants to become an investment banker. I wish I could convince him otherwise. I studied engineering physics and have a very successful career in medical devices. Unfortunately my son has an obsession with becoming a millionaire and despite taking AP in physics and Math and doing well, he is obsessed with investment banking. I wish finance majors didn't exist because so many kids will be better useful to society elsewhere.

This made me laugh. My son is the same and he is not even that quant. I am hoping that he will come to his senses at some point. He wants to make lots of money, he says. He is considering either IB or law school to make lots of money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really frustrates me as DS is very hard working and going into senior year at Bucknell. Many of his classmates with loaded parents with connections on Wall Street have gotten their kids internships for the summer at companies like JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, even Goldman Sachs. Kid feels discouraged. He has a 3.8 gpa, good extracurriculars but got shunned away in favor of kids whose dad golfs with the vp of wealth management and has a 3.0 gpa and subpar involvement in college besides frats. It makes me feel like I'm wasting my money on bucknell as these schools only pay off if you have prior family wealth and connections to launch your career in investment banking and finance. Also, how are these kids who barely ut the work in during the school year manage to work these long, long hours in these internships? Are these repo babies given a pass if daddy is there at work today supervising?

The problem is your son didn’t understand the point of attending Bucknell…it’s not to get a 3.8 (but that’s great)…it’s to become friends with the rich kids you lament…and get hooked up with a job.

This. My son wants to become an investment banker. I wish I could convince him otherwise. I studied engineering physics and have a very successful career in medical devices. Unfortunately my son has an obsession with becoming a millionaire and despite taking AP in physics and Math and doing well, he is obsessed with investment banking. I wish finance majors didn't exist because so many kids will be better useful to society elsewhere.

DH works in finance. Yes there are nepo babies who have an edge getting their feet in the door. However, once in, they don't get invited back unless they do well in their summer programs. It's a ruthless industry that doesn't tolerate dead weight, and parents and friends aren't going to help anyone who doesn't make the cut.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Bucknell a target school for the banks you're referring to? (I'm guessing not but I don't know.) If not, then he should look for internships at less brand-name employers and work up from there. The best-known investment banks and consulting firms show a very strong preference for their target schools (they accept applicants from others, but that's why you see a networking bias for applicants from those schools).

I know kids from non-target schools interning (without family connections) in NYC banks this year, but not at the well known banks.

Incidentally, my rising junior has ALREADY submitted applications for summer, 2024 internships. (You may know of the timing, but just in case... successful applications go in FAR earlier than anyone might guess.)

My DS is almost guaranteed an IB internship in ‘24 because his BFF is a frat bro and the frat bro’s dad is holds a senior position at the company.

This does not happen. The connection will get the first round but if they can't cut it they won't go further.

This is the right answer. Yes, connections can get pass the first (resume review) or the second cut (first interview) but you are on your own after that. I am a senior exec in consulting. I refer candidates and get referrals from colleagues and friends. But, it is really the initial stage you will go through via being referred. Which is a big advantage, of course.

Anonymous wrote:Really frustrates me as DS is very hard working and going into senior year at Bucknell. Many of his classmates with loaded parents with connections on Wall Street have gotten their kids internships for the summer at companies like JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, even Goldman Sachs. Kid feels discouraged. He has a 3.8 gpa, good extracurriculars but got shunned away in favor of kids whose dad golfs with the vp of wealth management and has a 3.0 gpa and subpar involvement in college besides frats. It makes me feel like I'm wasting my money on bucknell as these schools only pay off if you have prior family wealth and connections to launch your career in investment banking and finance. Also, how are these kids who barely ut the work in during the school year manage to work these long, long hours in these internships? Are these repo babies given a pass if daddy is there at work today supervising?

Wait I'm confusing, why doesn't he just use that Bucknell pipeline to the Street?

Anonymous wrote:Really frustrates me as DS is very hard working and going into senior year at Bucknell. Many of his classmates with loaded parents with connections on Wall Street have gotten their kids internships for the summer at companies like JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, even Goldman Sachs. Kid feels discouraged. He has a 3.8 gpa, good extracurriculars but got shunned away in favor of kids whose dad golfs with the vp of wealth management and has a 3.0 gpa and subpar involvement in college besides frats. It makes me feel like I'm wasting my money on bucknell as these schools only pay off if you have prior family wealth and connections to launch your career in investment banking and finance. Also, how are these kids who barely ut the work in during the school year manage to work these long, long hours in these internships? Are these repo babies given a pass if daddy is there at work today supervising?

I'm confused. Isn't the US an aristocracy? Or did I miss something. It's always been this way. Your kid will find his way.

Anonymous wrote:You would be surprised how (appropriately) aggressive some of these kids were in applying. Personalized emails, letters and calls to everyone on the group they wanted to work in. Sample pitches tailored specifically to an MD in a group. Letters commenting on recent transactions with ideas of add-one to pursue.

How did they get access to this information that you would expect to be jealously guarded via NDAs etc?

Anonymous wrote:I have known nepo summer hires to be shunted to staff roles, such as HR.

I totally agree that many college career offices are not up to snuff and under-budgeted. They have to serve pizza to entice kids sometimes. And many kids, mine, prefer to use their parents. One smart dad Iknewold his kid he would help AFTER she went to the career office.

What can the career office do in this situation? Having a list of alumni doesn't really help as they are constantly inundated with non-compelling requests to meet for an informational interview. It feels zero-sum, as giving advice to attendees on how to reach out to alumni in a better manner just raises the bar.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone can do one of these jobs. It doesn’t take a lot of intelligence to understand financial markets and work on PowerPoints. I once was an intern. It’s kind of like how there are millions of kids who would do perfectly fine at Princeton.

The ones who don’t have what it takes won’t get offers after the summer.

Not true

How is this not true? Have you ever been an investment banking analyst? Half of your time is spent waiting for feedback on decks and working on excel models. It’s not very challenging work. I met many analysts who disliked the lifestyle but don’t recall meeting anyone who thought it was too intellectually challenging. It’s just not.

What majors do you think lead to intellectually challenging work on a routine basis to freshly minted college graduates? I am asking this question as a Ph.D. in engineering and a MBA finance graduate.

This is a good question. Quant is intellectually challenging, but not offered on a routine basis to freshly minted college grads. I guess I would say software engineering, or other forms of engineering (although those can sometimes be scut-heavy)

I have known nepo summer hires to be shunted to staff roles, such as HR.

I totally agree that many college career offices are not up to snuff and under-budgeted. They have to serve pizza to entice kids sometimes. And many kids, mine, prefer to use their parents. One smart dad Iknewold his kid he would help AFTER she went to the career office.

Anonymous wrote:My daughter works in finance at one of the places you mentioned and has done interviewing and hiring there for 8 years. I haven't heard her mention any nepo-baby hires ever. Yes, I am sure it happens, but none of the interns she has interviewed or hired have been nepo-babies. They even make some after-internship offers to some not so great candidates because they need more bodies.

Nepo babies either don't get interviewed or are interviewed by a connection as a formality.

Are the not so great return offer receivers the same as the ones she interviewed for the internships to begin with?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
"Local elites" still control this country once you get outside the 5-7 largest metro areas. And that's where frat boys thrive - mortgage banking, commercial RE, regional law firms, sales jobs, etc.

It's all about where you play golf, who knew in Sigma Nu, which Big 10 team you supporter, etc. Guys in company branded polo shirts sitting in domestic 1st class on the flight from Chicago to Des Moines.

This is accurate. I played D1 golf at a SEC school and play golf with people in the office where I work. We had a company retreat at a golf country club and I beat everyone in golf, including the CEO. He was so impressed that he invited me to play with him regularly at Congressional CC. I also play regularly with the CFO at Riverbend CC in Great Falls as an invited guest. I recently got promoted to VP position not because I am better than other candidates but because they know me better on a personal level. It is all about networking and relationship. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

I can't even possibly imagine what an enormous asset this is in the corporate networking world. Better than any degree I can imagine (and I say this as someone with two Harvard degrees!)

+1 in an industry of relations and likability, sports can be a huge plus and way to bond. Particularly Golf, squash, tennis, polo, and basketball.

My son in college plays in the weekly staff basketball games. He knows his professors by first name because of it.

Why did your son decide to start playing in the STAFF basketball game as someone who isn't staff? Who invited him?