Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the normie take which 80% of Americans not on DCUM, Twitter, Reddit, 8Chan, or Tumblr think:
1. The lockdowns were a good idea at the time and saved lives initially by flattening the curve, but they went on too long
2. Masks probably were a good idea for a few months, but then became a social problem
3. Warp Speed was a great success that saved a lot of lives, and the vaccines are safe and effective
4. Shutting down schools after spring 2020 was a huge mistake and led to massive learning loss and social problems, which will plague a generation
5. Initially well intentioned and positive programs (eviction freezes, stimmy, giveaways to businesses) went on too long and were too large and caused the current inflation mess
6. There was an information crisis created from both sides (censorship from left and govt, misinformation and pseudoscience from right) that persists and is very bad for democracy

Given that both sides hate the above, it's probably mostly accurate.

This nails it.

I'm a lefty progressive and when I encounter people who can't admit the ways the left was wrong on aspect of Covid, or contributed to misinformation and dysfunction, I get so frustrated. Yes, Trump was an idiot who bungled the initial response, and yes, the angry anti-mask, anti-vaccine MAGA people are a problem. But if you can't see the mistakes the left made as well, you lose credibility, because there were a lot of them.

I do give a lot of credit to Biden and his team for quietly unrolling/rejecting the more unhinged positions of some people on the left, often opening themselves up to criticism. It's the right thing to do and is part of what has enabled people to arrive at these conclusions in a sane way instead of continuing to cling to prior delusions. There was a lot of reactionary behavior from the left that was entirely about proving Trump and his followers wrong and had little if anything to do with public health or even basic progressive principles like ensuring families and children have access to basic services.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we not? Please? Covid is done, get over it. I'm sick of you people - who never did anything to protect others during the pandemic anyway - complaining about something that happened three years ago.

This. Sorry your ski trip in 2020 got canceled or whatever. Cope.

I went on my ski trip and had a wonderful time.

It's hard for lockdowns to work when people ignore them. You don't get to flout the rules and then complain that they were ineffective

There were no rules preventing people from traveling to ski in another state, if the ski resorts were open.

In any event, I ignored the rules as much as I could because I knew they didn't, and couldn't, work. They went against all prior pandemic planning.

Same. Felt bad friends didn’t know any better and went along with the restrictions. We enjoyed life to the extent possible.

One of the (few) good things about living in the US during the pandemic versus a country like France, was our lack of national restrictions. To avoid the crazy restrictions and rules in a place like DC, we spent a lot of time in places like Florida and Georgia. I'm thankful we live in a country where the Federal government couldn't dictate to everyone how to respond to covid, and that can't forbid travel.

Same here. I have family in Jordan and Dubai. It was out of control there.

Though, I will say that even here in the US, the federal government really did try to forbid travel, and other things. Luckily it was somewhat kept in check.

I have relatives in Canada, and certain provinces would ban people from other provinces from traveling there. Thankfully, Governors and Mayors don't have that power here. And the Federal government doesn't have that power, either. Americans are free to move about this country.

And it’s why we had a higher death rate in this country than those that applied real restrictions. American prioritize #freedumb over health and common good.

Freedom isn’t free.

It’s incredibly sad to make fun of freedom with your #freedumb. What comes to mind are the millions of Americans who lost their lives to protect your freedom, the millions of immigrants who came here in the search for freedom and prosperity, the many civil liberties you have as an American (even compared to Western Europeans!). You won’t be making fun of freedom if you ever lose it.

FFS stop with the people died for your freedom. Most countries have freedom. In fact, a dozen or more have more freedom than the USA. And most of those are in Western Europe.

This trope that Americans are the only ones with freedom is stupid and anyone who repeats it in ironically reveals themselves to be not a serious thinker.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just released yesterday: The lives saved were negligible compared to the economic and mental health damages.

https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdict-on-covid-restrictions/

..in the spring of 2020 only reduced COVID-19 mortality by 3.2 per cent. This translates into approximately 6,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 4,000 in the United States. SIPOs were also relatively ineffective in the spring of 2020, only reducing COVID-19 mortality by 2.0 per cent. This translates into approximately 4,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 3,000 in the United States. Based on specific NPIs, we estimate that the average lockdown in Europe and the United States in the spring of 2020 reduced COVID-19 mortality by 10.7 per cent. This translates into approximately 23,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 16,000 in the United States. In comparison, there are approximately 72,000 flu deaths in Europe and 38,000 flu deaths in the United States each year. When checked for potential biases, our results are robust. Our results are also supported by the natural experiments we have been able to identify. The results of our meta-analysis support the conclusion that lockdowns in the spring of 2020 had a negligible effect on COVID-19 mortality.

I hope never again will we acquiesce to the failures of the media and our governments. The freedoms we gave up are staggering for such piss poor success.

Oh STFU. This wa not a failure. It was an evolving attempt to deal with a situation we had not seen in 100 years and were grappling with what to do. I gave up nothing significant if it meant I didn't pass on a virus that could kill someone. Don't rely on study to justify you being a selfish twat. And an ignorant one at that.

Excellent post. Thank you. Agreed 1000 %

Stupid post. The ONLY reason you and PP could sit at home and congratulate yourself for how virtuous you are is because of all the low-wage workers bringing you groceries, your mail-order Peleton, and keeping the electricity and internet going so you could WFH. Meanwhile you arrogate the right to yourself to determine what harms other people should suffer to make you feel safe.

How many low-wage workers do you personally know? And how many of them opposed lockdowns (not including school closures)?

Sure Jan, the Drizly driver was very happy to support you in your ability to “stay home to flatten the curve.” He considered it an honor to provide the wine.

So, you don't know any. I know PLENTY of low-income workers who were in favor of lockdowns.

Sure you do.

Yeah, I do. And they were more in favor of lockdowns (assuming they weren't covid deniers) because they didn't have the same healthcare resources that rich people do. If they got sick they were screwed, financially and physically.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the leftys so cling to their thoughts they were helping they ignore legitimate research and will do anything to discredit any finding that goes against the narrative.

It must frustrate you that people are calling bullshit bullshit and that no one is buying your "narrative." I get it. But you're not persuasive. Not even remotely. Nor is the IEA.

Must be hard looking in the mirror knowing how mistaken you are. Many respected scientists are agreeing with this review not some Dutch billion dollar publishing company. Good bye troll you get no more response which will frustrate you even more.

Where are those 100,000s of dead the UK promised? Where were those filled hospital ers world wide.

You so lovely give up freedom and command others do the same based on the false narrative.

Go ahead Bohica

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the normie take which 80% of Americans not on DCUM, Twitter, Reddit, 8Chan, or Tumblr think:
1. The lockdowns were a good idea at the time and saved lives initially by flattening the curve, but they went on too long
2. Masks probably were a good idea for a few months, but then became a social problem
3. Warp Speed was a great success that saved a lot of lives, and the vaccines are safe and effective
4. Shutting down schools after spring 2020 was a huge mistake and led to massive learning loss and social problems, which will plague a generation
5. Initially well intentioned and positive programs (eviction freezes, stimmy, giveaways to businesses) went on too long and were too large and caused the current inflation mess
6. There was an information crisis created from both sides (censorship from left and govt, misinformation and pseudoscience from right) that persists and is very bad for democracy

Given that both sides hate the above, it's probably mostly accurate.

This one especially. Any potential benefits that were gained by mask mandates were greatly overshadowed by the alienation and polarization they created. Outdoor mask mandates and masking kids, for examples.

I think if mask mandates were limited to places like medical settings, where people went to get essential services, they wouldn't have been so controversial. But, having mandates in places where people went voluntarily, such as restaurants, really pissed off a lot of people.

+1 requiring 2 year olds in daycare to mask for 8+ hours per day defies all logic (and was basically unique to the USA and a handful of Asian countries). It was pretty evident from day one that forcing 2 year olds to wear a (often sopping wet from drool) mask (in between pulling it down to swap masks with classmates and shove shared toys in their mouth) does absolutely 0 at best to “stop the spread” and more likely exacerbated the germ flow. A bunch of current kindergarteners now have speech delays so that the adults responsible for them could demonstrate their political position.

Day care workers died at one of the highest rates of all job categories

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love the leftys so cling to their thoughts they were helping they ignore legitimate research and will do anything to discredit any finding that goes against the narrative.

It must frustrate you that people are calling bullshit bullshit and that no one is buying your "narrative." I get it. But you're not persuasive. Not even remotely. Nor is the IEA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we not? Please? Covid is done, get over it. I'm sick of you people - who never did anything to protect others during the pandemic anyway - complaining about something that happened three years ago.

This. Sorry your ski trip in 2020 got canceled or whatever. Cope.

I went on my ski trip and had a wonderful time.

It's hard for lockdowns to work when people ignore them. You don't get to flout the rules and then complain that they were ineffective

There were no rules preventing people from traveling to ski in another state, if the ski resorts were open.

In any event, I ignored the rules as much as I could because I knew they didn't, and couldn't, work. They went against all prior pandemic planning.

Same. Felt bad friends didn’t know any better and went along with the restrictions. We enjoyed life to the extent possible.

One of the (few) good things about living in the US during the pandemic versus a country like France, was our lack of national restrictions. To avoid the crazy restrictions and rules in a place like DC, we spent a lot of time in places like Florida and Georgia. I'm thankful we live in a country where the Federal government couldn't dictate to everyone how to respond to covid, and that can't forbid travel.

Same here. I have family in Jordan and Dubai. It was out of control there.

Though, I will say that even here in the US, the federal government really did try to forbid travel, and other things. Luckily it was somewhat kept in check.

I have relatives in Canada, and certain provinces would ban people from other provinces from traveling there. Thankfully, Governors and Mayors don't have that power here. And the Federal government doesn't have that power, either. Americans are free to move about this country.

And it’s why we had a higher death rate in this country than those that applied real restrictions. American prioritize #freedumb over health and common good.

Freedom isn’t free.

It’s incredibly sad to make fun of freedom with your #freedumb. What comes to mind are the millions of Americans who lost their lives to protect your freedom, the millions of immigrants who came here in the search for freedom and prosperity, the many civil liberties you have as an American (even compared to Western Europeans!). You won’t be making fun of freedom if you ever lose it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just released yesterday: The lives saved were negligible compared to the economic and mental health damages.

https://iea.org.uk/publications/did-lockdowns-work-the-verdict-on-covid-restrictions/

..in the spring of 2020 only reduced COVID-19 mortality by 3.2 per cent. This translates into approximately 6,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 4,000 in the United States. SIPOs were also relatively ineffective in the spring of 2020, only reducing COVID-19 mortality by 2.0 per cent. This translates into approximately 4,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 3,000 in the United States. Based on specific NPIs, we estimate that the average lockdown in Europe and the United States in the spring of 2020 reduced COVID-19 mortality by 10.7 per cent. This translates into approximately 23,000 avoided deaths in Europe and 16,000 in the United States. In comparison, there are approximately 72,000 flu deaths in Europe and 38,000 flu deaths in the United States each year. When checked for potential biases, our results are robust. Our results are also supported by the natural experiments we have been able to identify. The results of our meta-analysis support the conclusion that lockdowns in the spring of 2020 had a negligible effect on COVID-19 mortality.

I hope never again will we acquiesce to the failures of the media and our governments. The freedoms we gave up are staggering for such piss poor success.

Oh STFU. This wa not a failure. It was an evolving attempt to deal with a situation we had not seen in 100 years and were grappling with what to do. I gave up nothing significant if it meant I didn't pass on a virus that could kill someone. Don't rely on study to justify you being a selfish twat. And an ignorant one at that.

Excellent post. Thank you. Agreed 1000 %

Stupid post. The ONLY reason you and PP could sit at home and congratulate yourself for how virtuous you are is because of all the low-wage workers bringing you groceries, your mail-order Peleton, and keeping the electricity and internet going so you could WFH. Meanwhile you arrogate the right to yourself to determine what harms other people should suffer to make you feel safe.

How many low-wage workers do you personally know? And how many of them opposed lockdowns (not including school closures)?

Sure Jan, the Drizly driver was very happy to support you in your ability to “stay home to flatten the curve.” He considered it an honor to provide the wine.

So, you don't know any. I know PLENTY of low-income workers who were in favor of lockdowns.

Sure you do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the normie take which 80% of Americans not on DCUM, Twitter, Reddit, 8Chan, or Tumblr think:
1. The lockdowns were a good idea at the time and saved lives initially by flattening the curve, but they went on too long
2. Masks probably were a good idea for a few months, but then became a social problem
3. Warp Speed was a great success that saved a lot of lives, and the vaccines are safe and effective
4. Shutting down schools after spring 2020 was a huge mistake and led to massive learning loss and social problems, which will plague a generation
5. Initially well intentioned and positive programs (eviction freezes, stimmy, giveaways to businesses) went on too long and were too large and caused the current inflation mess
6. There was an information crisis created from both sides (censorship from left and govt, misinformation and pseudoscience from right) that persists and is very bad for democracy

Given that both sides hate the above, it's probably mostly accurate.

This one especially. Any potential benefits that were gained by mask mandates were greatly overshadowed by the alienation and polarization they created. Outdoor mask mandates and masking kids, for examples.

I think if mask mandates were limited to places like medical settings, where people went to get essential services, they wouldn't have been so controversial. But, having mandates in places where people went voluntarily, such as restaurants, really pissed off a lot of people.

+1 requiring 2 year olds in daycare to mask for 8+ hours per day defies all logic (and was basically unique to the USA and a handful of Asian countries). It was pretty evident from day one that forcing 2 year olds to wear a (often sopping wet from drool) mask (in between pulling it down to swap masks with classmates and shove shared toys in their mouth) does absolutely 0 at best to “stop the spread” and more likely exacerbated the germ flow. A bunch of current kindergarteners now have speech delays so that the adults responsible for them could demonstrate their political position.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hospitals were overrun and medical professionals were overworked and burning out. The lockdown prevented the collapse of the medical system. Perhaps the lockdown went longer than it needed to, but it was impossible to predict exactly how covid would evolve.

Hospitals were overrun in a handful of places, and that was due to mismanagement by the respective governments. Such as DCUM's darling Governor Cuomo who was more interested in holding press conferences than setting up a system to spread out covid patients to different hospitals.

The vast majority of hospitals in the US got, at worst, more busy than normal for a limited period of time.

And let's not forget that hospitals laid off a good number of staff because elective surgeries- aka money makers, weren't happening. So while they said they were overrun, it was really short staff because they laid a lot of them off.

I remember watching news stories about overrun hospitals and then walking by a local hospital that if I didn’t know better, I would have thought it was closed for business.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the normie take which 80% of Americans not on DCUM, Twitter, Reddit, 8Chan, or Tumblr think:
1. The lockdowns were a good idea at the time and saved lives initially by flattening the curve, but they went on too long
2. Masks probably were a good idea for a few months, but then became a social problem
3. Warp Speed was a great success that saved a lot of lives, and the vaccines are safe and effective
4. Shutting down schools after spring 2020 was a huge mistake and led to massive learning loss and social problems, which will plague a generation
5. Initially well intentioned and positive programs (eviction freezes, stimmy, giveaways to businesses) went on too long and were too large and caused the current inflation mess
6. There was an information crisis created from both sides (censorship from left and govt, misinformation and pseudoscience from right) that persists and is very bad for democracy

Given that both sides hate the above, it's probably mostly accurate.

This one especially. Any potential benefits that were gained by mask mandates were greatly overshadowed by the alienation and polarization they created. Outdoor mask mandates and masking kids, for examples.

I think if mask mandates were limited to places like medical settings, where people went to get essential services, they wouldn't have been so controversial. But, having mandates in places where people went voluntarily, such as restaurants, really pissed off a lot of people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the normie take which 80% of Americans not on DCUM, Twitter, Reddit, 8Chan, or Tumblr think:
1. The lockdowns were a good idea at the time and saved lives initially by flattening the curve, but they went on too long
2. Masks probably were a good idea for a few months, but then became a social problem
3. Warp Speed was a great success that saved a lot of lives, and the vaccines are safe and effective
4. Shutting down schools after spring 2020 was a huge mistake and led to massive learning loss and social problems, which will plague a generation
5. Initially well intentioned and positive programs (eviction freezes, stimmy, giveaways to businesses) went on too long and were too large and caused the current inflation mess
6. There was an information crisis created from both sides (censorship from left and govt, misinformation and pseudoscience from right) that persists and is very bad for democracy

Given that both sides hate the above, it's probably mostly accurate.

This nails it.

I'm a lefty progressive and when I encounter people who can't admit the ways the left was wrong on aspect of Covid, or contributed to misinformation and dysfunction, I get so frustrated. Yes, Trump was an idiot who bungled the initial response, and yes, the angry anti-mask, anti-vaccine MAGA people are a problem. But if you can't see the mistakes the left made as well, you lose credibility, because there were a lot of them.

I do give a lot of credit to Biden and his team for quietly unrolling/rejecting the more unhinged positions of some people on the left, often opening themselves up to criticism. It's the right thing to do and is part of what has enabled people to arrive at these conclusions in a sane way instead of continuing to cling to prior delusions. There was a lot of reactionary behavior from the left that was entirely about proving Trump and his followers wrong and had little if anything to do with public health or even basic progressive principles like ensuring families and children have access to basic services.[/quote


Yeah, White progressives are the worst as they fight for labor rights as we force our Black and Brown laborers into unsafe working conditions so they can brunch w/o masks