Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, CalTech, & Wharton

Columbia & U Chicago are similar---Duke, Penn, & Northwestern are similar

JHU, Brown, Cornell, & Dartmouth

Vanderbilt

Chicago is under rated as a city because Easterners only hear about the crime is certain parts of the city and know little to nothing about the other areas. Chicago is much more exciting than DC, Philly, Baltimore, New Haven, & the research triangle of North Carolina ( Duke, UNC, & NC State).

I like Vanderbilt & Nashville, but Vanderbilt is not on the same academic level as the other 15 schools.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:OP Northwestern is a fantastic school and it would be a smart move to ED there if your child likes it. I would agree it’s closer to the second grouping of schools like Cornell, Johns Hopkins, UChicago, Vanderbilt. The other schools seem to be a bit tougher to get into early, this year on Reddit I saw many kids not get into Yale, Duke, Penn, or Columbia in the early round who got into HPSM in regular decision.

These schools really are all lottery-like for all except the truly amazing student. Most kids with high stats and great ECs get into one or more and not others and end up having no idea why. You have to hope your application and essays resonate with the AO!
You also have to remember that REA is different than ED and schools use their early programs to different degrees. It is worth looking that historical info up if you are close to 50-50 on two schools for REA/ED. Chicago in particular does great in the DMV admitting kids ED2 (and RD) that were dinged elsewhere REA/ED1.
If you want to go to an elite school in the Chicago area, you can apply to NW ED1 and Chicago ED2 (if you are not admitted to NW).
Lastly, we can't just make up things like HPSM. There has long been HYP, and then HYPS, and HYPSM to a degree with the rise of tech. You can add to the HYP base but it is laughable and completely just a few individuals on random boards who would write HPSM...

Very true on Chicago ED2, it's a great backup in case ED1 doesn't work out. Also re: Yale, there's a couple indicators that HPSM are in a class of their own (and I'm NP on this topic). Firstly, all of HPSM don't offer any special scholarship or recruitment programs for undergrads. Yale has broken that over the last 10 years by creating two programs to recruit students they usually lose to HPSM: Yale Hahn Scholars and Yale YES scholars. That puts them in line with Columbia, Duke, and Penn. Columbia has Egleston, Kluge, and John Jay Scholars. Duke has Robertson, AB, and Karsh Scholars. Penn has Ben Franklin, Joseph Wharton, and Vagelos Scholars (along with like 5 dual degree programs used to recruit hundreds of students each year). At HPSM, all students enter at the same standing, no special scholars, because they don't need those programs to recruit the best.

Other than Wharton Jerome Fisher or Huntsman programs, Yale is a league on its on vs. Columbia, Penn and Duke. Non-Wharton Penn and Duke much further down along with Chicago, JHU, etc.

That's fair. I think it would be reasonable to go:

HPSM

Yale, Caltech, Wharton

Columbia, Duke, Penn

Chicago, JHU, Brown, Dartmouth, Northwestern

Cornell, Vanderbilt, Rice, WashU

It looks like you put considerable effort into this. Even if the recent USNews rankings haven’t made a shambles of your tiers, the fact remains that this hairsplitting is like trying to infer significance to one group of sports cars having a top speed of 210 mph, while “lesser” ones can go only 209.5 and 209 mph. They are all impressive, can all get you anywhere, & the difference in outcomes is more dependent on the the individual driver (student) than the car (college).

Northwestern is great, student caliber similar to those at Brown, Dartmouth and Cornell

You guys, what specific knowledge of all the listed schools do you have to make these comparisons? Are you reaching somewhere other than your own belly buttons to determine your complicated <>= rankings? How do you account for the fact that some of them are very different in their educational philosophies? Apples and oranges!

Anonymous wrote:Northwestern is good, but not great, school. Nearby Chicago is not doing well.

What does "good" or "great" even mean? USNWR ranks Northwestern ninth in national universities in the nation. I don't take the rankings too seriously, but if you're looking for categorization, does that make NU "great"? Or would it need to be, what ... in the top eight to qualify? The only scale that really matters is the "goodness of fit" ranking for your child and family. I'm surprised by the suggestions I've read (not necessarily in this thread) that schools like Northwestern are left to take the "rejects" who don't get into "great" schools. I find that disrespectful and myopic.

Some studies suggest that people with similar stats do similarly well, regardless of where they attend school. Hence, someone with a 1600 SAT/4.0 GPA who does the honors program at their local land grant university will likely end up just as successful as someone with the same stats who goes to a "great" school. This implies that "top" universities don't necessarily offer a better education than "no-name" schools -- they are just better able to stock up on students who would succeed anyway.

Because of this, I don't find all this labeling and ranking particularly helpful. It all seems somewhat arbitrary. U of Chicago and WashU have higher average SAT scores than Harvard or Princeton, yet they are less highly ranked and less well-known. A more helpful measure of a school's quality is how it improves a student's academic performance over four years. This could be measured by the change in percentile from SAT score (pre-first year) to GRE score (as measured in the senior year of college).

Several of my family members and acquaintances went to Northwestern, and they are overwhelmingly positive about their college experiences. They have all done well career-wise and are kind, smart, down-to-earth people. NU's location along Lake Michigan is beautiful, and the university has a sailing club. There are some lovely beaches in the area. You're close to the lakes and forests of Wisconsin if you want a weekend away from Evanston. It's nice to have Chicago on your doorstep. I've seen some criticism of Chicago here, but the city has charm, along with world-class museums, cultural and sporting events, and restaurants. NU retains a "Midwest nice" vibe. For what it's worth, USNWR rates NU #9 among National Universities, tied with Brown and Johns Hopkins and just ahead of Columbia and U of Chicago (NU and U of Chi are almost certainly underrated as they're in the Midwest). If you're interested in NU, U of Chicago might also be worth a look. I prefer the NU location, but U of Chicago is also lovely and is renowned for its academics.

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Anonymous wrote:Northwestern is underrated when you triangulate between happy, hotties, and academics

On a three dimensional axis, nu rockets up the rankings

This is disturbing.

This is merely what happens when teens frequent the DCUM forums.

Do teens really frequent this "old person" site? Thought it could be an adult.

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Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure a NW ED is a good strategic choice. it's really difficult to get into from the DMV (a hair away from impossible) Also, if you're coming from private you better be a URM. 2023 admits from DC privates were about 10/10 URM.

So, what areas of the country/states have better odds at getting in? Midwest?

I know a ton of kids who matriculate to Northwestern from NYC and NYC area schools, as well as California, Texas, and Florida. Admissions is not significantly different in any way from other schools ranked in the T10-20.

I think what’s missing from this though is that these kids are coming from mostly private schools. They are mostly rich. Despite higher Ed claiming to value equity and diversity, they mostly take very wealthy or sad stories of hardship. They keep the rich rich and lift a few from poverty. Everyone in between fights for scraps.

This is most T25 schools. And those who get in that are not from private schools are still largely rich kids. Without prevalent merit awards, that is who can afford $80K+ schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Northwestern is underrated when you triangulate between happy, hotties, and academics

On a three dimensional axis, nu rockets up the rankings

This is disturbing.

This is merely what happens when teens frequent the DCUM forums.