Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 15:19     Subject: Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
Anonymous wrote:I think what hurts kids is not that they can’t have everything they want. It’s not even trying to help them what matters. That’s what I remember from my youth. My parents didn’t give me a single dime after I turned 18, mostly my mother’s idea.
Have they told me - we don’t have much (which I knew) but here is $1000 - I would not want for more and my feelings for them would have been different

Are you now a failure because your parents didn't give you a dime after you turned 18?
You wanted money from your parents to have good feelings about them? Maybe this is where parents failed. They failed to teach you that love isn't about money.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 15:13     Subject: Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We have 2 kids, we live in a 3 br townhouse in an exurb that has a 1400/mo mortgage, we send them to public school and we only save $2000 per year per kid for their college while having a 400k HHI. Rec soccer, cheap city summer camps. I don’t believe that you are morally obligated to financially strain yourself just to give your kids what society thinks is the ideal life. Our kids are very happy and don’t feel like they’re deprived from what I can tell.

OP, I wouldn’t do the same but I fully understand what you are doing. You are doing the right thing. Good parenting doesn’t mean throwing money into expensive activities for your kids. Money doesn’t buy happiness. Your kids can be happy and have a wonderful life without all of this, and it seems like they are happy.
Kids don’t need to go to elite colleges to succeed in life. Your plans don’t include paying for expensive colleges and this is totally fine.


-1

Huge difference between "paying $80K/year for elite colleges vs fully funding $40-50K/year for good state school/private school with some merit vs go to CC and figure it out from there you are on your own"

Providing an education is very different than funding expensive sports/activities.
Why have kids is you don't want to help with the basics? In 2023, helping fund college is part of the basics when you make$400K


Education is very important and helping fund college is definitely part of the basics. But that can be partly funding, that can be funding CC, etc..
Teaching your kids how to fish is more important than serving them the fish in a golden plate.


CC path is not that viable if you want engineering/CS. 2 years at CC would be half wasted---you'd have your Gen Eds and maybe the first year of Calc. Where I live the CC is not as rigorous as the first year of classes at StateU so you might get at most 1 year towards your Eng Degree. Therefore, starting at a 4 year would be more useful. Have the kid go to State school/private with some merit so it's only 40-50K/year. But if you make $400K+/year, you should at a minimum help your kid attend that without debt (or at most the $27Kmax over 4 years). yes the kid can work a summer job and during breaks and earn $10K towards college and their spending in college. But why would you saddle them with more debt or make them take 6-8 years to get their degree while working?

Not prudent
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 15:09     Subject: Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
OP, I get wanting to teach your kids a work ethic, but I would be very careful about pushing community college for certain areas of study. Be sure to talk to guidance counselors, etc. to make sure you're not wasting time. Unless of course you're planning to restrict what they major in too, to make it CC-friendly....
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 15:00     Subject: Re:Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
OP these old lessons you are teaching no longer benefit kids. While your child is slumming it at community college for 2 years, their peers have an established peer group and contacts with professors. Your child misses out on all the extra network building from study abroad as well as Greek membership if they are into it. Perhaps most importantly, your kid will be waiting tables or tending bar late night while their peers study for 4.0s and use their network for summer internships.

In sum, you are expected to use your $400k to help set your child up for success. Also realize your child may miss some early opportunities because they need to take a more miserable job (or multiple jobs) to service their loans.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 14:04     Subject: Re:Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
we make a fair bit less, but our kids will have the choice: 4 year private (we are aiming for 250k/kid), but no guarantee after of grad school or down payment; or 4 year public, with remainder going to them for grad school or down payment. We may also be able to leave them some other money, depending on how we age and our investments, and they will inherit some from grandparents and probably their bachelor uncle--the goal is to provide them with enough support to give them the opportunity to start out with their heads well above water, but not enough that they dont have to swim at all and can just float.

as for opportunities now--we make choices. tutoring and expensive sleep away camp that they love--yes. lululemon leggings and taylor swift tickets? no.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 14:02     Subject: Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
Curious what you are planning to do with your money - since you aren't spending it on your kids?
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 13:31     Subject: Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
Anonymous wrote:I think what hurts kids is not that they can’t have everything they want. It’s not even trying to help them what matters. That’s what I remember from my youth. My parents didn’t give me a single dime after I turned 18, mostly my mother’s idea.
Have they told me - we don’t have much (which I knew) but here is $1000 - I would not want for more and my feelings for them would have been different


Yep.

You cannot love someone and nit help them when you can. Love is an action word.

My parents did not have much to give, but it was pretty clear that they gave a lot.

If I had parents making 400k a year and offering exactly what my parents making 120k were offering without any reasonable explanation, I would not have felt loved.

Sit with your children, explain why you think less is more and check in often/ make adjustments when they are needed.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 13:26     Subject: Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
I think what hurts kids is not that they can’t have everything they want. It’s not even trying to help them what matters. That’s what I remember from my youth. My parents didn’t give me a single dime after I turned 18, mostly my mother’s idea.
Have they told me - we don’t have much (which I knew) but here is $1000 - I would not want for more and my feelings for them would have been different
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 12:30     Subject: Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
OP we are the same as you. $300k HHi, public school, $3k per year per kid in 529s, park district or school sports, SFH but PITI is $1800.

We have a cabin that pays for itself on AirBnb that provides us with a TON of amazing memories. We also swap it on home exchange and have gotten some awesome vacations that way.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 12:27     Subject: Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You do you OP. What if your kid is a soccer or dance or basketball phenom and you were too cheap to explore their interest, when you could afford it? So sad, there is a balance you can strike. My child has a fantastic life, is well rounded and gets the joy out of exploring various sports and hobbies. I have a high net worth and don't have to budget what I spend. I would rather give my child excellent experiences and think about it as enriching their life.


The likelihood that OP’s kid is phenomenal at anything is zero and OP already knows it. I think it’s good that OP had already realized that his kids aren’t worth extensive investment— the money can then be put elsewhere.


Lol as if the typical UMC white kid is ever going to be in the NBA or go to the World Cup, most of your kids are destined to be pencil pushing cogs like the rest of us. Delusional to think spending hundreds of thousands on enriching activities will lead to a significantly different outcome.


You aren’t clued. People spend thousands of dollars on youth sports so that their kid can get a recruited athlete spot at an elite college, or to get an athletic scholarship, but usually the former. You do NOT need to be an Olympic-level athlete to get a recruiting likely letter, not even close.


My kids do club sports and expensive music programs and I have zero expectations for a scholarship nor want them to do either in college as I want them to go to get educated for a career that can financially support them. They do it for enjoyment/exercise.


Exactly, I was a rec soccer kid and I got plenty of exercise and had a blast. I went to school with kids on travel teams which I was a bit jealous of at the time (I probably wasn’t even good enough to be on them anyway) but it didn’t matter in the end, most of those kids never played soccer at the D1 level. There’s so much elitism on this forum and it’s full of parents trying to justify the inordinate amount of money they spend on activities.

I think if you’re truly wealthy right out of the gate and endowed with lots of family money it’s no problem to go all out for your kids. If money was no object I would do the same for my children. But at the end of the day most of the stuff UMC’s think are needs are in reality wants, and done for appearances and to fit in with various social crowds. Kids don’t need to be pampered this much to turn out decent.


+1000
I’m reading so much nonsense here. There are many paths to success. If you interview the happiest and successful people out there, you would find out that most of them didn’t necessarily have a childhood full of expensive stuffs, activities, private school and expensive elite colleges.
Raise your kids to have good moral values, to be good human beings. Make sure they understand the value of money and hard work. Give them the things that are necessary to be successful in life. Anything extra won’t make a difference. No need to spend lavishly, it could even backfire and turn them into spoiled entitled kids.


Uh, yes they did. Keep telling yourself otherwise.


DP.

Happiness and success mean different things to different people.

To many on this board, it means making as much money as you can.

Many people are happy making 150k a year. You definitely do not need private schools and expensive extracurricular to make that.

Money contributes to happiness, yes. But there is a threshold after which additional money does not add extra happiness.



Not having student loan debt does contribute to happiness.


It does, but that is achievable with a HHI of 150k.

Several people in my circle went to schools in the University of Maryland system and were making 150k by 30 with no loans.

My parents made 120k at their highest income and paid my brother's way through UMBC
He has zero loans and makes 170k at 31 in computer science.

Several of my friends got bachelors degrees in accounting and make between 180-250k in their mid to late thirties with zero loans.

I have relatives who are nurse practitioners and nurse anesthesiologists making 120k - 200K with zero loans.

And some of us are as happy as can be with student loans. I have student loans from law school even though I was offered a free ride at a great school. I have no regrets. I am happy with my choices and happy to pay.

So yes, you can be happy and your children can be student loan free with a HHI of 150k if that is your goal. And student loans do not necessarily affect your happiness.


Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 12:12     Subject: Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We have 2 kids, we live in a 3 br townhouse in an exurb that has a 1400/mo mortgage, we send them to public school and we only save $2000 per year per kid for their college while having a 400k HHI. Rec soccer, cheap city summer camps. I don’t believe that you are morally obligated to financially strain yourself just to give your kids what society thinks is the ideal life. Our kids are very happy and don’t feel like they’re deprived from what I can tell.

OP, I wouldn’t do the same but I fully understand what you are doing. You are doing the right thing. Good parenting doesn’t mean throwing money into expensive activities for your kids. Money doesn’t buy happiness. Your kids can be happy and have a wonderful life without all of this, and it seems like they are happy.
Kids don’t need to go to elite colleges to succeed in life. Your plans don’t include paying for expensive colleges and this is totally fine.


-1

Huge difference between "paying $80K/year for elite colleges vs fully funding $40-50K/year for good state school/private school with some merit vs go to CC and figure it out from there you are on your own"

Providing an education is very different than funding expensive sports/activities.
Why have kids is you don't want to help with the basics? In 2023, helping fund college is part of the basics when you make$400K


Education is very important and helping fund college is definitely part of the basics. But that can be partly funding, that can be funding CC, etc..
Teaching your kids how to fish is more important than serving them the fish in a golden plate.


As long as you realize that the cost to fish keeps increasing at a rate that outstrips inflation and wage growth, so they have to work more and more hours to catch the same number of fish....
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 10:54     Subject: Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We have 2 kids, we live in a 3 br townhouse in an exurb that has a 1400/mo mortgage, we send them to public school and we only save $2000 per year per kid for their college while having a 400k HHI. Rec soccer, cheap city summer camps. I don’t believe that you are morally obligated to financially strain yourself just to give your kids what society thinks is the ideal life. Our kids are very happy and don’t feel like they’re deprived from what I can tell.

OP, I wouldn’t do the same but I fully understand what you are doing. You are doing the right thing. Good parenting doesn’t mean throwing money into expensive activities for your kids. Money doesn’t buy happiness. Your kids can be happy and have a wonderful life without all of this, and it seems like they are happy.
Kids don’t need to go to elite colleges to succeed in life. Your plans don’t include paying for expensive colleges and this is totally fine.


-1

Huge difference between "paying $80K/year for elite colleges vs fully funding $40-50K/year for good state school/private school with some merit vs go to CC and figure it out from there you are on your own"

Providing an education is very different than funding expensive sports/activities.
Why have kids is you don't want to help with the basics? In 2023, helping fund college is part of the basics when you make$400K


Education is very important and helping fund college is definitely part of the basics. But that can be partly funding, that can be funding CC, etc..
Teaching your kids how to fish is more important than serving them the fish in a golden plate.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 10:51     Subject: Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We have 2 kids, we live in a 3 br townhouse in an exurb that has a 1400/mo mortgage, we send them to public school and we only save $2000 per year per kid for their college while having a 400k HHI. Rec soccer, cheap city summer camps. I don’t believe that you are morally obligated to financially strain yourself just to give your kids what society thinks is the ideal life. Our kids are very happy and don’t feel like they’re deprived from what I can tell.

OP, I wouldn’t do the same but I fully understand what you are doing. You are doing the right thing. Good parenting doesn’t mean throwing money into expensive activities for your kids. Money doesn’t buy happiness. Your kids can be happy and have a wonderful life without all of this, and it seems like they are happy.
Kids don’t need to go to elite colleges to succeed in life. Your plans don’t include paying for expensive colleges and this is totally fine.


-1

Huge difference between "paying $80K/year for elite colleges vs fully funding $40-50K/year for good state school/private school with some merit vs go to CC and figure it out from there you are on your own"

Providing an education is very different than funding expensive sports/activities.
Why have kids is you don't want to help with the basics? In 2023, helping fund college is part of the basics when you make$400K


Exactly- where is all that money going? To enable OP to retire before their kids are even college-aged?

We save about that much for each of our 2 kids annually at half OP's HHI. Sure I expect them to contribute with part-time and summer jobs but I had a lot of loans (parents had zero saved) and I don't want that for my kids. I also don't think it's a good idea to expect them to work fulltime while attending, my sister did that and couldn't devote the time to her classes and her grades suffered.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 10:42     Subject: Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You do you OP. What if your kid is a soccer or dance or basketball phenom and you were too cheap to explore their interest, when you could afford it? So sad, there is a balance you can strike. My child has a fantastic life, is well rounded and gets the joy out of exploring various sports and hobbies. I have a high net worth and don't have to budget what I spend. I would rather give my child excellent experiences and think about it as enriching their life.


The likelihood that OP’s kid is phenomenal at anything is zero and OP already knows it. I think it’s good that OP had already realized that his kids aren’t worth extensive investment— the money can then be put elsewhere.


Lol as if the typical UMC white kid is ever going to be in the NBA or go to the World Cup, most of your kids are destined to be pencil pushing cogs like the rest of us. Delusional to think spending hundreds of thousands on enriching activities will lead to a significantly different outcome.


You aren’t clued. People spend thousands of dollars on youth sports so that their kid can get a recruited athlete spot at an elite college, or to get an athletic scholarship, but usually the former. You do NOT need to be an Olympic-level athlete to get a recruiting likely letter, not even close.


My kids do club sports and expensive music programs and I have zero expectations for a scholarship nor want them to do either in college as I want them to go to get educated for a career that can financially support them. They do it for enjoyment/exercise.


Exactly, I was a rec soccer kid and I got plenty of exercise and had a blast. I went to school with kids on travel teams which I was a bit jealous of at the time (I probably wasn’t even good enough to be on them anyway) but it didn’t matter in the end, most of those kids never played soccer at the D1 level. There’s so much elitism on this forum and it’s full of parents trying to justify the inordinate amount of money they spend on activities.

I think if you’re truly wealthy right out of the gate and endowed with lots of family money it’s no problem to go all out for your kids. If money was no object I would do the same for my children. But at the end of the day most of the stuff UMC’s think are needs are in reality wants, and done for appearances and to fit in with various social crowds. Kids don’t need to be pampered this much to turn out decent.


+1000
I’m reading so much nonsense here. There are many paths to success. If you interview the happiest and successful people out there, you would find out that most of them didn’t necessarily have a childhood full of expensive stuffs, activities, private school and expensive elite colleges.
Raise your kids to have good moral values, to be good human beings. Make sure they understand the value of money and hard work. Give them the things that are necessary to be successful in life. Anything extra won’t make a difference. No need to spend lavishly, it could even backfire and turn them into spoiled entitled kids.


Uh, yes they did. Keep telling yourself otherwise.


The happiest people I have met didn’t live a lavish lifestyle.
Anonymous
Post 05/30/2023 10:42     Subject: Why do people think you have to spend so much on your kids?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Your kids will have to use your income on their FAFSA. They will not get enough aid. They will be forced to take out private loans.

I had 70k in debt in 1999 because my parents did what you did. The average student debt loan was $16,000 total for all four years then. I had to take out private loans from Chase bank at 9% interest. I had to work 3 jobs in my 20s to pay it off. It ruined my career prospects (could not consider professional school...I had to survive) and I literally had no fun or joy in my college years or from 18-32. I paid it off around age 32. It destroyed my young adulthood and changed my life trajectory than it would have been otherwise.

I have barely spoken to my parents since. I am mid 40s now. They intentionally started my life in a hole. Their income was used against me.

College costs are too high for you to do this to your kids. They won't get aid with your income.

You really need a reality check. I would never, ever do this to my kids. Never.


Not OP, but this is very enlightening. My kids are young so we haven’t been through this yet, but are planning to save for college.

I wanted to add on that the fact parental income is factored into FAFSA is proof that it is a societal expectation that if you have decent income you will help your children fund their college education. It is the default expectation. This isn’t even in the same boat as extravagant extracurriculars (although I do see merit to exposing your kids to a variety of ECs but I digress).

Should it be this way? Probably not. College expenses are so out of control and in many ways college is now the minimum for entry level white collar work. I feel bad for the families making less than 400k who won’t qualify for aid and are trying to help their kids.

But it’s the system we have and I think bucking “the system” at the expense of your children’s future is a really crappy thing to do.


And I’ll add that I was the first in my family to graduate college. My parents made major sacrifices to send me and my dad explicitly sat me down and told me he expected that I do the same for my kids someday. We as parents are *supposed* to invest in our children. Not spoil them. But invest in giving them a good future.


+1000

Paying for your kid's college education, when you can easily afford it, is not "spoiling them". It is investing in their future and should be expected of a decent parent. Only a shitty parent would not attempt to save/help their kid when they are rich