Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t want to drain neighborhood schools and leave them only with kids whose parents couldn’t/didn’t navigate the lottery.

so APS basically has school choice in the form of charter schools then? We just call it something else as to not be republicany? Expensive busing, brain drain of neighborhood schools, have to be able to navigate the lottery…what am I missing here and why is this accepted?

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Anonymous wrote:Disagree w having more option schools. The answer is to follow the ATS model in neighborhood schools. We seem to be moving in opposite direction though w equity grading.

I guess I could never get a good feel for what "traditional" meant. I realize there's a heavy emphasis on reading and homework every day. And tucking in shirts (maybe that went away).

But I asked the principal at an info session (this was in 2018) and she gave me this line about the school having walls with doors. I was SO confused. My kid's neighborhood school has walls and doors?

I know the school culture is most likely a bit part of what makes kids successful. But if the ideas there are so well done, why aren't we doing it APS wide? What is the main difference between the way ATS does teaching and the rest of the county? I don't' want to hear it's kindergarten kids reading for 30 minutes a night. That's not a curriculum.

ATS holds all their students to a high standard of reading and reading is a true part of their culture. That's the difference.

Right, which it can ONLY do because it's an option school. So if it DOES NOT WORK for some children (say, those who struggle with reading!) they will not attend ATS, or they will be asked to leave.

That's EXACTLY why it can not be moved into every elementary school. The population self selects into children with certain skills and abilities very quickly.

Say what? Am I understanding your post correctly: ATS will kick students out if they are not performing on grade level?

Every poster here who said ATS holds its students to higher standards... I assumed on an attitude level? Kids literally get asked to leave if they struggle with reading? This is documented?

There was an article in Arlington magazine about ATS praising the way the then-principal would tell kids who weren't reading that they would have a very special job next year welcoming kids who were in kindergarten for the first time.

But maybe Holly Hawthorne is just another disgruntled non-ATS parent, lying about school policy

I don't think its the school policy, but I too have heard this from multiple parents (at multiple grade levels). If your kid is not keeping up, they encourage you to leave. My youngest is in fifth grade now, my eldest in college, and this is something I have heard over the years when we've met ATS families. The number of times I've heard it from families at ATS would lead me to believe its true.
For what its worth, I heard the same thing about Key -- if your child has a learning disability they encourage you to go back to your neighborhood school so as to not compound the issue. Not sure if there's truth there, other than I heard it from multiple families over the course of multiple years.

I don't know how it happens, could be that parents of students with disabilities don't enroll their children, could be that students with disabilities are counseled out. However, the APS data is pretty clear. For some reason ATS and Key are well below the county average and the other option schools are not. This is from the APS equity dashboard:

All APS elementary students with disabilities: 14.37%
ATS students with disabilities: 7.65%
Escuela Key students with disabilities: 9.72%
Campbell students with disabilities: 18.93%
Claremont students with disabilities: 13.28%
Montessori students with disabilities: 14.29%

What you’ll notice though is the number of students with disabilities are more or less constant over the past three years (with a slight increase in 2021-2022). Unfortunately I can’t look further back. So no one is being counseled out. More likely than not parents of students with disabilities are less likely to apply to ATS for one reason or another. No one is counseled out of applying. It’s a lottery. There’s no interview.

The lack of an interview is irrelevant. The “counseling” happens a quarter or two after the kid starts. Or later, but most often on the sooner end. Lots of my students have gone to ATS, only to return 6-12 months later with that report from families.

—teacher

I find that hard to believe. APS SpEd goes out of their way to never ever ever suggest they can't meet a kids needs. Even though many many many times they are not meeting a kids needs. Lots of parents would love for APS to be more straightforward about "yeah you should get a tutor this summer " or whatever else is needed. It would be a huge liability if ATS is counseling SWDs out.

I know families who were told that they should leave HB because it wasn't equipped to help their kids with LDs.

What? That's strange, HB is just another APS school like the others, they should be able to accommodate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every time there is a post about ATS a bunch of haters start posting criticisms of the school. What do they all have in common? They don’t have kids who go there. ATS is a good school and is recognized as such. It’s one of the best schools in the country and the top elementary school in Virginia. You can hate it all you want. It doesn’t change this fact. I’m a recent immigrant and my kids are at ATS. It is filled with Mongolians, Eritreans, Ethiopians and Moroccans among others. Most of us aren’t rich but we know a good school when we see one and word travels fast. I understand that many of you hate the academic focus, the homework, the behavioral expectations and the “strict” dress code (not strict enough for me. Many of us prefer uniforms). That’s fine. You have your neighborhood school go to. The rest of us however are dying to put our kids in a school where behavior and academics matter. How I wish there was an ATS equivalent for middle school. I would apply in a heartbeat.

I've been pleasantly surprised at how many immigrant families are at ATS. People think it's a "white-flight" school, but that's not the school enrollment at all. ATS has a majority minority study body. Anyone wanting a truly diverse school with high standards should check it out.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree w having more option schools. The answer is to follow the ATS model in neighborhood schools. We seem to be moving in opposite direction though w equity grading.

I guess I could never get a good feel for what "traditional" meant. I realize there's a heavy emphasis on reading and homework every day. And tucking in shirts (maybe that went away).

But I asked the principal at an info session (this was in 2018) and she gave me this line about the school having walls with doors. I was SO confused. My kid's neighborhood school has walls and doors?

I know the school culture is most likely a bit part of what makes kids successful. But if the ideas there are so well done, why aren't we doing it APS wide? What is the main difference between the way ATS does teaching and the rest of the county? I don't' want to hear it's kindergarten kids reading for 30 minutes a night. That's not a curriculum.

ATS holds all their students to a high standard of reading and reading is a true part of their culture. That's the difference.

Right, which it can ONLY do because it's an option school. So if it DOES NOT WORK for some children (say, those who struggle with reading!) they will not attend ATS, or they will be asked to leave.

That's EXACTLY why it can not be moved into every elementary school. The population self selects into children with certain skills and abilities very quickly.

Say what? Am I understanding your post correctly: ATS will kick students out if they are not performing on grade level?

Every poster here who said ATS holds its students to higher standards... I assumed on an attitude level? Kids literally get asked to leave if they struggle with reading? This is documented?

There was an article in Arlington magazine about ATS praising the way the then-principal would tell kids who weren't reading that they would have a very special job next year welcoming kids who were in kindergarten for the first time.

But maybe Holly Hawthorne is just another disgruntled non-ATS parent, lying about school policy

I don't think its the school policy, but I too have heard this from multiple parents (at multiple grade levels). If your kid is not keeping up, they encourage you to leave. My youngest is in fifth grade now, my eldest in college, and this is something I have heard over the years when we've met ATS families. The number of times I've heard it from families at ATS would lead me to believe its true.
For what its worth, I heard the same thing about Key -- if your child has a learning disability they encourage you to go back to your neighborhood school so as to not compound the issue. Not sure if there's truth there, other than I heard it from multiple families over the course of multiple years.

I don't know how it happens, could be that parents of students with disabilities don't enroll their children, could be that students with disabilities are counseled out. However, the APS data is pretty clear. For some reason ATS and Key are well below the county average and the other option schools are not. This is from the APS equity dashboard:

All APS elementary students with disabilities: 14.37%
ATS students with disabilities: 7.65%
Escuela Key students with disabilities: 9.72%
Campbell students with disabilities: 18.93%
Claremont students with disabilities: 13.28%
Montessori students with disabilities: 14.29%

What you’ll notice though is the number of students with disabilities are more or less constant over the past three years (with a slight increase in 2021-2022). Unfortunately I can’t look further back. So no one is being counseled out. More likely than not parents of students with disabilities are less likely to apply to ATS for one reason or another. No one is counseled out of applying. It’s a lottery. There’s no interview.

The lack of an interview is irrelevant. The “counseling” happens a quarter or two after the kid starts. Or later, but most often on the sooner end. Lots of my students have gone to ATS, only to return 6-12 months later with that report from families.

—teacher

I find that hard to believe. APS SpEd goes out of their way to never ever ever suggest they can't meet a kids needs. Even though many many many times they are not meeting a kids needs. Lots of parents would love for APS to be more straightforward about "yeah you should get a tutor this summer " or whatever else is needed. It would be a huge liability if ATS is counseling SWDs out.

I know families who were told that they should leave HB because it wasn't equipped to help their kids with LDs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree w having more option schools. The answer is to follow the ATS model in neighborhood schools. We seem to be moving in opposite direction though w equity grading.

I guess I could never get a good feel for what "traditional" meant. I realize there's a heavy emphasis on reading and homework every day. And tucking in shirts (maybe that went away).

But I asked the principal at an info session (this was in 2018) and she gave me this line about the school having walls with doors. I was SO confused. My kid's neighborhood school has walls and doors?

I know the school culture is most likely a bit part of what makes kids successful. But if the ideas there are so well done, why aren't we doing it APS wide? What is the main difference between the way ATS does teaching and the rest of the county? I don't' want to hear it's kindergarten kids reading for 30 minutes a night. That's not a curriculum.

ATS holds all their students to a high standard of reading and reading is a true part of their culture. That's the difference.

Right, which it can ONLY do because it's an option school. So if it DOES NOT WORK for some children (say, those who struggle with reading!) they will not attend ATS, or they will be asked to leave.

That's EXACTLY why it can not be moved into every elementary school. The population self selects into children with certain skills and abilities very quickly.

Say what? Am I understanding your post correctly: ATS will kick students out if they are not performing on grade level?

Every poster here who said ATS holds its students to higher standards... I assumed on an attitude level? Kids literally get asked to leave if they struggle with reading? This is documented?

There was an article in Arlington magazine about ATS praising the way the then-principal would tell kids who weren't reading that they would have a very special job next year welcoming kids who were in kindergarten for the first time.

But maybe Holly Hawthorne is just another disgruntled non-ATS parent, lying about school policy

I don't think its the school policy, but I too have heard this from multiple parents (at multiple grade levels). If your kid is not keeping up, they encourage you to leave. My youngest is in fifth grade now, my eldest in college, and this is something I have heard over the years when we've met ATS families. The number of times I've heard it from families at ATS would lead me to believe its true.
For what its worth, I heard the same thing about Key -- if your child has a learning disability they encourage you to go back to your neighborhood school so as to not compound the issue. Not sure if there's truth there, other than I heard it from multiple families over the course of multiple years.

I don't know how it happens, could be that parents of students with disabilities don't enroll their children, could be that students with disabilities are counseled out. However, the APS data is pretty clear. For some reason ATS and Key are well below the county average and the other option schools are not. This is from the APS equity dashboard:

All APS elementary students with disabilities: 14.37%
ATS students with disabilities: 7.65%
Escuela Key students with disabilities: 9.72%
Campbell students with disabilities: 18.93%
Claremont students with disabilities: 13.28%
Montessori students with disabilities: 14.29%

What you’ll notice though is the number of students with disabilities are more or less constant over the past three years (with a slight increase in 2021-2022). Unfortunately I can’t look further back. So no one is being counseled out. More likely than not parents of students with disabilities are less likely to apply to ATS for one reason or another. No one is counseled out of applying. It’s a lottery. There’s no interview.

The lack of an interview is irrelevant. The “counseling” happens a quarter or two after the kid starts. Or later, but most often on the sooner end. Lots of my students have gone to ATS, only to return 6-12 months later with that report from families.

—teacher

I find that hard to believe. APS SpEd goes out of their way to never ever ever suggest they can't meet a kids needs. Even though many many many times they are not meeting a kids needs. Lots of parents would love for APS to be more straightforward about "yeah you should get a tutor this summer " or whatever else is needed. It would be a huge liability if ATS is counseling SWDs out.

I also find it hard to believe any school explicitly counsels kids to go elsewhere. HOWEVER, I have experienced our school refusing to recognize an issue until there is an outside diagnosis (which takes time and $ not everyone has). I've known other parents who left because they didn't think APS was equipped to address their child's diagnosis. I can 100% see how someone would feel like they were being pushed out of a school by the school's refusal to address their child's needs. It is a long, tedious process full of lots of APS staff who have perspectives on discrete pieces of a child's development and education, but NOBODY besides the parent is looking at your child's overall wellbeing and experience. I can't count the number of times I've left a meeting feeling like I was the problem, that I was just overly anxious and needed to relax because everyone else seemed to think my child was 100% fine. They were not, and eventually got the diagnosis it took way too long to get.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Old APS parent here. Knowing what I know now, I absolutely would have applied to send my kids to ATS (we did not even lottery, though I did learn about it at kindergarten info night).

How I think of it is, ATS runs like schools ran when I was a kid. Traditional. Other APS schools are trying new models that generally are not proven and not as effective.

We switched to Catholic during Covid which also runs a more traditional model, but which you pay for out of pocket.

I do think we should add another ATS. The question is where to put it, because you have to take offline an existing ES, and that's a nightmare like all boundary stuff is.

But as an Arlington taxpayer, I would love to see all our schools swinging back toward a more traditional learning model.

I also completely agree on the importance of having one teacher who really gets to know your kid and be invested in them. I hated when our APS elem started rotating kids in 4th grade and all those connections got broken.

Just want to chime in as an ATS parent. What distinguishes ATS is the following:

- high expectations when it comes to academics
- high expectations when it comes to behavior
- direct interaction as opposed to inquiry based learning (this is the most important difference in my opinion)
- focus on phonics in the earlier grades
- curriculum has always been knowledge based even before the adoption of CKLA
- extremely diverse student body
- no standards based grading in the higher grades
-homework
- arts focus

This all sounds pretty generic, though I'm not familiar with "direct interaction" vs. "inquiry based learning." Again, the main issue I see with ATS, and why we didn't bother trying the lottery, is that they can't really identify what they're doing that is so special. Anyone at ATS who hasn't also been at another school (most of ATS) has only experienced ATS and been told it is extra special.

That’s because you don’t know the difference between inquiry based learning and direct instruction. They are completely different methods of teaching. The delivery is different. The teacher’s role is different. The students roles’ are different. The way students interact with each other are different. It’s a completely different way to run a classroom. The differences are vast. Just because the difference is too abstract for you to understand doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I suggest you learn about the different methods of instruction. You can start with Natalie Wexler.

Your entire response just repeats the assertion that "direct interaction" and "inquiry based learning" are different without explaining HOW they are different. I'll google Natalie Wexler and try to educate myself, but repeating a claim without backing it up doesn't make it more convincing. Also, even if this one thing is the true difference, why burry that with all the other generic stuff? No wonder so many of us are confused.