Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought at some point people would get tired of the MCEA and their similar groups, strong arming the council and the executive to get whatever they want.

I know I pay absolutely no mind to the apple ballot, but it's still a winner.

You'd think with the schools in decline, and them all championing a 10% property tax increase in the middle of high inflation and an economic downturn- that people would change their tune, but I doubt it.

Schools aren't in decline. I think you're confusing this with broad shifts in demographics that have gone on here over the past 2-3 decades. The same kid can do as well today as 30 years ago, maybe even better, but now we're a more diverse group with differing goals and values.

Schools are in decline. We can quibble about the degree of decline but the academic stats and performance are indisputably down from pre-pandemic for sure, and again, we debate the degree of the decline over the previous decade, but there are definitely schools where the decline is more tangible and felt than in others.

Denying this and attempting to paint anyone who feels that MCPS is not where it should as racist is the problem. I'm a black parent, and a product of MCPS myself and I feel the school system is not in a good place and needs to improve. So trot out another talking point because fear of demographic shifts won't work with me.

Anybody of any race or ethnicity can have fear of demographic shifts.

People say they're in decline because test score averages are down, but that is because of demographic shifts.

No. They're in decline because:

- Test averages are down
- Grade inflation is real
- Behavioral issues on the rise
- Chronic absenteeism is on the rise
- A majority of EML (formerly ESOL) learners are not making it to graduation
- Many school buildings are not in a great state
- Discipline seems to be nonexistent

Either engage in the conversation honestly or don't at all. But no one who says the schools are in decline is JUST concerned about test scores. Stop it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought at some point people would get tired of the MCEA and their similar groups, strong arming the council and the executive to get whatever they want.

I know I pay absolutely no mind to the apple ballot, but it's still a winner.

You'd think with the schools in decline, and them all championing a 10% property tax increase in the middle of high inflation and an economic downturn- that people would change their tune, but I doubt it.

Schools aren't in decline. I think you're confusing this with broad shifts in demographics that have gone on here over the past 2-3 decades. The same kid can do as well today as 30 years ago, maybe even better, but now we're a more diverse group with differing goals and values.

Schools are in decline. We can quibble about the degree of decline but the academic stats and performance are indisputably down from pre-pandemic for sure, and again, we debate the degree of the decline over the previous decade, but there are definitely schools where the decline is more tangible and felt than in others.

Denying this and attempting to paint anyone who feels that MCPS is not where it should as racist is the problem. I'm a black parent, and a product of MCPS myself and I feel the school system is not in a good place and needs to improve. So trot out another talking point because fear of demographic shifts won't work with me.

Two things can be true. I believe that the data shows an overall decline in performance, partly due to demographic shifts and partly due to actual decline in the school system processes.

However, I believe that a big impact in schools is part of a broader decline in society in general (due to shifts in media consumption, internet access, social media, and loss of community).

Does the school system need to change and adapt? Yes. But we are in uncharted waters about how to adapt to the broader societal changes.

I'm the PP you're quoting and you're 100% spot. I can agree with you. The situation is nuanced and I agree: both things are true.

I just want MCPS to be honest about this complexity and then be specific and bold about taking action on the part they can control, which are the school system processes you're talking about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought at some point people would get tired of the MCEA and their similar groups, strong arming the council and the executive to get whatever they want.

I know I pay absolutely no mind to the apple ballot, but it's still a winner.

You'd think with the schools in decline, and them all championing a 10% property tax increase in the middle of high inflation and an economic downturn- that people would change their tune, but I doubt it.

Schools aren't in decline. I think you're confusing this with broad shifts in demographics that have gone on here over the past 2-3 decades. The same kid can do as well today as 30 years ago, maybe even better, but now we're a more diverse group with differing goals and values.

Schools are in decline. We can quibble about the degree of decline but the academic stats and performance are indisputably down from pre-pandemic for sure, and again, we debate the degree of the decline over the previous decade, but there are definitely schools where the decline is more tangible and felt than in others.

Denying this and attempting to paint anyone who feels that MCPS is not where it should as racist is the problem. I'm a black parent, and a product of MCPS myself and I feel the school system is not in a good place and needs to improve. So trot out another talking point because fear of demographic shifts won't work with me.

Anybody of any race or ethnicity can have fear of demographic shifts.

People say they're in decline because test score averages are down, but that is because of demographic shifts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought at some point people would get tired of the MCEA and their similar groups, strong arming the council and the executive to get whatever they want.

I know I pay absolutely no mind to the apple ballot, but it's still a winner.

You'd think with the schools in decline, and them all championing a 10% property tax increase in the middle of high inflation and an economic downturn- that people would change their tune, but I doubt it.

Schools aren't in decline. I think you're confusing this with broad shifts in demographics that have gone on here over the past 2-3 decades. The same kid can do as well today as 30 years ago, maybe even better, but now we're a more diverse group with differing goals and values.

As an MCPS graduate and current parent- I think they absolutely are in decline- with the exception of pockets of very wealthy areas.

I grew up in East County and went to Springbrook, but you could tell a similar story about most schools now besides a select few.

I went to a W but my kids attend east county schools. They're getting a great education which is much better than mine. I think it's because I don't expect the county to raise them and I also spend time with them. Parental involvement helps.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought at some point people would get tired of the MCEA and their similar groups, strong arming the council and the executive to get whatever they want.

I know I pay absolutely no mind to the apple ballot, but it's still a winner.

You'd think with the schools in decline, and them all championing a 10% property tax increase in the middle of high inflation and an economic downturn- that people would change their tune, but I doubt it.

Schools aren't in decline. I think you're confusing this with broad shifts in demographics that have gone on here over the past 2-3 decades. The same kid can do as well today as 30 years ago, maybe even better, but now we're a more diverse group with differing goals and values.

Schools are in decline. We can quibble about the degree of decline but the academic stats and performance are indisputably down from pre-pandemic for sure, and again, we debate the degree of the decline over the previous decade, but there are definitely schools where the decline is more tangible and felt than in others.

Denying this and attempting to paint anyone who feels that MCPS is not where it should as racist is the problem. I'm a black parent, and a product of MCPS myself and I feel the school system is not in a good place and needs to improve. So trot out another talking point because fear of demographic shifts won't work with me.

Two things can be true. I believe that the data shows an overall decline in performance, partly due to demographic shifts and partly due to actual decline in the school system processes.

However, I believe that a big impact in schools is part of a broader decline in society in general (due to shifts in media consumption, internet access, social media, and loss of community).

Does the school system need to change and adapt? Yes. But we are in uncharted waters about how to adapt to the broader societal changes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought at some point people would get tired of the MCEA and their similar groups, strong arming the council and the executive to get whatever they want.

I know I pay absolutely no mind to the apple ballot, but it's still a winner.

You'd think with the schools in decline, and them all championing a 10% property tax increase in the middle of high inflation and an economic downturn- that people would change their tune, but I doubt it.

Schools aren't in decline. I think you're confusing this with broad shifts in demographics that have gone on here over the past 2-3 decades. The same kid can do as well today as 30 years ago, maybe even better, but now we're a more diverse group with differing goals and values.

Schools are in decline. We can quibble about the degree of decline but the academic stats and performance are indisputably down from pre-pandemic for sure, and again, we debate the degree of the decline over the previous decade, but there are definitely schools where the decline is more tangible and felt than in others.

Denying this and attempting to paint anyone who feels that MCPS is not where it should as racist is the problem. I'm a black parent, and a product of MCPS myself and I feel the school system is not in a good place and needs to improve. So trot out another talking point because fear of demographic shifts won't work with me.

Anybody of any race or ethnicity can have fear of demographic shifts.

Why would I, as a black person, fear an increase in black and brown students? I volunteer at my black and brown majority school because I know they don't get the support of their majority white counterparts.

Again, pick another talking point. It won't work with me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought at some point people would get tired of the MCEA and their similar groups, strong arming the council and the executive to get whatever they want.

I know I pay absolutely no mind to the apple ballot, but it's still a winner.

You'd think with the schools in decline, and them all championing a 10% property tax increase in the middle of high inflation and an economic downturn- that people would change their tune, but I doubt it.

Schools aren't in decline. I think you're confusing this with broad shifts in demographics that have gone on here over the past 2-3 decades. The same kid can do as well today as 30 years ago, maybe even better, but now we're a more diverse group with differing goals and values.

Schools are in decline. We can quibble about the degree of decline but the academic stats and performance are indisputably down from pre-pandemic for sure, and again, we debate the degree of the decline over the previous decade, but there are definitely schools where the decline is more tangible and felt than in others.

Denying this and attempting to paint anyone who feels that MCPS is not where it should as racist is the problem. I'm a black parent, and a product of MCPS myself and I feel the school system is not in a good place and needs to improve. So trot out another talking point because fear of demographic shifts won't work with me.

Anybody of any race or ethnicity can have fear of demographic shifts.

I personally think that the fear and paranoia teachers live with is palpable that is why when anyone says jump they need to say how high or an admin will write a scathing review. If they don't produce the numbers they will be blamed and gas lighted. If their students are maladaptive with dangerous behavior they are blamed too. Even if you you are already working unpaid overtime they will get more when they can gaslight you with reviews that are based on a bully admins whims instead of data and tlrational thinking. Long story short , they want everything in regard to unpaid labor but give nothing in regard to support. Step out of line and report behavior it is the teachers behavior that will be criticized.

Anonymous wrote:These hypocrites in the front row are the same folks that clean house of teaching staff every year because they are too spineless to respect and protect teachers who are working double overtime to try to keep a job and make a career. They do however complain that teachers are leaving and not signing back up. It's because of the way they are treated and not pay.

Who keeps electing them if you feel they don't represent teachers? You get the leadership you vote for.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought at some point people would get tired of the MCEA and their similar groups, strong arming the council and the executive to get whatever they want.

I know I pay absolutely no mind to the apple ballot, but it's still a winner.

You'd think with the schools in decline, and them all championing a 10% property tax increase in the middle of high inflation and an economic downturn- that people would change their tune, but I doubt it.

Schools aren't in decline. I think you're confusing this with broad shifts in demographics that have gone on here over the past 2-3 decades. The same kid can do as well today as 30 years ago, maybe even better, but now we're a more diverse group with differing goals and values.

Schools are in decline. We can quibble about the degree of decline but the academic stats and performance are indisputably down from pre-pandemic for sure, and again, we debate the degree of the decline over the previous decade, but there are definitely schools where the decline is more tangible and felt than in others.

Denying this and attempting to paint anyone who feels that MCPS is not where it should as racist is the problem. I'm a black parent, and a product of MCPS myself and I feel the school system is not in a good place and needs to improve. So trot out another talking point because fear of demographic shifts won't work with me.

These hypocrites in the front row are the same folks that clean house of teaching staff every year because they are too spineless to respect and protect teachers who are working double overtime to try to keep a job and make a career. They do however complain that teachers are leaving and not signing back up. It's because of the way they are treated and not pay.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought at some point people would get tired of the MCEA and their similar groups, strong arming the council and the executive to get whatever they want.

I know I pay absolutely no mind to the apple ballot, but it's still a winner.

You'd think with the schools in decline, and them all championing a 10% property tax increase in the middle of high inflation and an economic downturn- that people would change their tune, but I doubt it.

Schools aren't in decline. I think you're confusing this with broad shifts in demographics that have gone on here over the past 2-3 decades. The same kid can do as well today as 30 years ago, maybe even better, but now we're a more diverse group with differing goals and values.

As an MCPS graduate and current parent- I think they absolutely are in decline- with the exception of pockets of very wealthy areas.

I grew up in East County and went to Springbrook, but you could tell a similar story about most schools now besides a select few.

In other words, you're agreeing with the PP who said it's broad shifts in demographics, not a decline in schools.

No- I am not at all agreeing.

We can debate about the reasons for the decline (demographic changes, greater farms concentration in most non W areas, etc), but I would say most schools have absolutely declined in the past 20 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought at some point people would get tired of the MCEA and their similar groups, strong arming the council and the executive to get whatever they want.

I know I pay absolutely no mind to the apple ballot, but it's still a winner.

You'd think with the schools in decline, and them all championing a 10% property tax increase in the middle of high inflation and an economic downturn- that people would change their tune, but I doubt it.

Schools aren't in decline. I think you're confusing this with broad shifts in demographics that have gone on here over the past 2-3 decades. The same kid can do as well today as 30 years ago, maybe even better, but now we're a more diverse group with differing goals and values.

As an MCPS graduate and current parent- I think they absolutely are in decline- with the exception of pockets of very wealthy areas.

I grew up in East County and went to Springbrook, but you could tell a similar story about most schools now besides a select few.

In other words, you're agreeing with the PP who said it's broad shifts in demographics, not a decline in schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought at some point people would get tired of the MCEA and their similar groups, strong arming the council and the executive to get whatever they want.

I know I pay absolutely no mind to the apple ballot, but it's still a winner.

You'd think with the schools in decline, and them all championing a 10% property tax increase in the middle of high inflation and an economic downturn- that people would change their tune, but I doubt it.

Schools aren't in decline. I think you're confusing this with broad shifts in demographics that have gone on here over the past 2-3 decades. The same kid can do as well today as 30 years ago, maybe even better, but now we're a more diverse group with differing goals and values.

As an MCPS graduate and current parent- I think they absolutely are in decline- with the exception of pockets of very wealthy areas.

I grew up in East County and went to Springbrook, but you could tell a similar story about most schools now besides a select few.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think whenever there are talks about teacher pay, it's helpful to have the actual information
https://www.mceanea.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/07/0355.21_MCEA_2021-2022_Contract-3.pdf (located on page 90 here)

Otherwise the narrative becomes "teachers are so underpaid".

OK, maybe they are. But let's have that discussion when framed with the actual numbers.

A teacher with 10 years experience and a masters (which you have to get) would earn 80,287.

That is not a bad salary for 10 months.

Maybe it should be more, but it is also higher than many people think, and is more than many Montgomery county residents make.

Lol do you even hear yourself? Someone with ten years experience and a masters should be happy with 80k in Montgomery County? My starting salary with a masters and zero experience was 93k. What an insult and a joke.

And only a teacher that has all the experience in MCPS would get that pay. I have 20 years experience but I’m only paid for 8 because I am new to MCPS.

Let’s also not forget what else teachers deal with. In the same week I was hit with a piece of classroom furniture, threatened twice with a gun (by 2 different students), and cursed at twice (by 2 different students). This is not worth $80k/yr

It’s not worth any amount of money. Are they going to make you sit in a sharing circle with the students with guns?

That’s exactly what they did. Admin said they didn’t want the student to think I “felt unsafe around them”.

Sounds like you need to call MCPD and press charges.

Again. The state law changed. MCPD is very limited in what they can do right now. It's incredibly frustrating. My life was threatened (no gun insinuations, just threatened) and the kid was back in the classroom I think 2 days later? Par for the course in today's public school classrooms, unfortunately.

That's nonsense. If someone pulls a gun on you, YOU need to report it. If you choose not to do anything about it, that's on you.

I know! MCPD refuses to do its job.