Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The audacity of caucasity on this post!

"White affinity group" is a very commonly used term nationally, both in educational and employment settings. The outrage here suggests you all either don't read, don't care to be better, and/or do exactly what such a group would challenge you to stop doing.

As several have pointed out, public institutions use resources to support marginalized/underrepresented groups all. the. time. Is the problem here that whiteness is not being centered and exhalted? Because that's how the bulk of you sound.

Also, stop saying 'woke.'

So language matters in one direction only? Some people are rightfully allowed to be offended by skin-based insults, while it's open season on other groups? This mindset is exactly that displayed in the SWS program description and is what is likely to undermine the program's presumable goals.

No it’s white fragility by textbook definition and the faulty logic presented by the offended white folk on this thread is a tragically ironic example of why these initiatives are sorely needed. In all honesty, they basis of this work is pushing past the feelings of defensiveness and discomfort for the sake of growth. It is quite known and discussed that many families will feel the way many of you are feeling. The goal of the work is to being forth those who are open and willing to push past that discomfort and learn something. This change is painfully and deeply rooted. This is century work and thank goodness for those who embark on it.

I'm not understanding why this doesn't apply to all groups though? Your own post is full of feelings of defensiveness and discomfort, and you seem unwilling to push past that for the sake of growth.

If you'd studied the Scripture you'd know that only the white race possesses original sin and must repent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The audacity of caucasity on this post!

"White affinity group" is a very commonly used term nationally, both in educational and employment settings. The outrage here suggests you all either don't read, don't care to be better, and/or do exactly what such a group would challenge you to stop doing.

As several have pointed out, public institutions use resources to support marginalized/underrepresented groups all. the. time. Is the problem here that whiteness is not being centered and exhalted? Because that's how the bulk of you sound.

Also, stop saying 'woke.'

So language matters in one direction only? Some people are rightfully allowed to be offended by skin-based insults, while it's open season on other groups? This mindset is exactly that displayed in the SWS program description and is what is likely to undermine the program's presumable goals.

No it’s white fragility by textbook definition and the faulty logic presented by the offended white folk on this thread is a tragically ironic example of why these initiatives are sorely needed. In all honesty, they basis of this work is pushing past the feelings of defensiveness and discomfort for the sake of growth. It is quite known and discussed that many families will feel the way many of you are feeling. The goal of the work is to being forth those who are open and willing to push past that discomfort and learn something. This change is painfully and deeply rooted. This is century work and thank goodness for those who embark on it.

I'm not understanding why this doesn't apply to all groups though? Your own post is full of feelings of defensiveness and discomfort, and you seem unwilling to push past that for the sake of growth.

Anonymous wrote:I don't hate this. I feel like it's good to have conversations about race. I remember, I was on a committee at a day care where 99% of the staff were black and 99% of the families were white and relatively rich. It felt awkward to notice the fact. It was an excellent day care and the staff were amazing and loved, but I found out in meetings that staff were often offended and hurt by things parents and children did, and it was heartbreaking to hear. Some instances could have been cultural differences but others were racism. Gotta stop denying racism and open your ears and minds. No point in people being hurt because you stayed ignorant and defensive.

Fair points, but how much of that dynamic was due to racial differences and how much was due to economics/class?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, SWS sounds really toxic. Instead of all this segregation, why not just have ONE culture club where everyone can learn from one another?

They don't want a discussion. They want to preach the gospel according to whatever woke prophet designed the groups. Dissenting opinions are by their very nature "racist".

Dissenting opinions are by their nature blasphemy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has Kindred written all over it. They drive a wedge into school communities and pretend it’ll result in healing. If any other school is considering partnering with Kindred and is reading this thread, please do not commit school, federal, or PTO dollars to this horrible organization. There is now data that proves this approach is harmful to communities. When we didn’t have the data, one could argue to give it a chance in case it is beneficial. But not now. I know of several schools that have partnered with Kindred and the organization has caused problems for most of them. Moreover, I have heard from several individuals who have met with them privately that their staff are some of the most unprofessional individuals that they have ever encountered. Just walk away from the conversation/negotiations, or end the partnership if you’ve started with them. It’s not worth the money.

Thanks for posting. Also interested at the data.

- at another school that has used these groups, probably because of kindred

A quick Google search brings up several hits, some of which note the underlying data. (There are also many related studies that inform the common sense idea that this approach won’t work. Those are not included below, but another Google Search can locate those pretty quickly.):

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/550b09eae4b0147d03eda40d/t/55281c09e4b0260435573c64/1428691977527/anti-prejudice-campaigns-increase-bias.pdf

https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev-psych-071620-030619

https://diversity.iu.edu/doc/anti-racist/resources-articles-lit/antiracism_what_works.pdf

https://www.aapf.org/theforum-white-fragility-discourse

https://merionwest.com/2021/02/01/jonathan-church-getting-to-the-bottom-of-the-robin-diangelo-craze/

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/17/opinion/dei-trainings-effective.html

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/dobbin/files/dobbin_kalev_economist_5-21-21.pdf

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/dehumanizing-condescension-white-fragility/614146

https://www.racket.news/p/on-white-fragility

This is worth a repost... if the "affinity group" strategy has not been successful, why double down on it?

Anonymous wrote:The audacity of caucasity on this post!

"White affinity group" is a very commonly used term nationally, both in educational and employment settings. The outrage here suggests you all either don't read, don't care to be better, and/or do exactly what such a group would challenge you to stop doing.

As several have pointed out, public institutions use resources to support marginalized/underrepresented groups all. the. time. Is the problem here that whiteness is not being centered and exhalted? Because that's how the bulk of you sound.

Also, stop saying 'woke.'

There is a chasm between "whiteness not being centered" and "perpetuation of whiteness and racism". The latter necessarily requires people to apologize for their existence and accept it as a failing. If you don't understand why these two things are not the same and why you alienate people by conflating the two then you are part of the problem. "Woke" is being used derisively to describe people like you who don't understand there's a difference. It is most ironic that you embody the new "woke" stereotype while demanding people stop using it to describe an exemplar of it.

"Allies" are important because we have learned over the history of oppression and war that the marginalized cannot often successfully advocate for themselves without people in positions of power working with them from the inside. You and others have perverted that concept to mean creating puppets who must pass some kind of purity test. Anyone who fails to agree 100% with your position is labeled a racist and becomes in your mind no different than a hood wearing, KKK white supremacist. That's counterproductive, false equivalence and succeeds only in alienating people who may agree with a great deal of what you say and advocate for, but may not agree with every last word.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The audacity of caucasity on this post!

"White affinity group" is a very commonly used term nationally, both in educational and employment settings. The outrage here suggests you all either don't read, don't care to be better, and/or do exactly what such a group would challenge you to stop doing.

As several have pointed out, public institutions use resources to support marginalized/underrepresented groups all. the. time. Is the problem here that whiteness is not being centered and exhalted? Because that's how the bulk of you sound.

Also, stop saying 'woke.'

So language matters in one direction only? Some people are rightfully allowed to be offended by skin-based insults, while it's open season on other groups? This mindset is exactly that displayed in the SWS program description and is what is likely to undermine the program's presumable goals.

No it’s white fragility by textbook definition and the faulty logic presented by the offended white folk on this thread is a tragically ironic example of why these initiatives are sorely needed. In all honesty, they basis of this work is pushing past the feelings of defensiveness and discomfort for the sake of growth. It is quite known and discussed that many families will feel the way many of you are feeling. The goal of the work is to being forth those who are open and willing to push past that discomfort and learn something. This change is painfully and deeply rooted. This is century work and thank goodness for those who embark on it.

Being "discussed" does not make it scientific. Being in a textbook does not make it factually correct, as our 20th century sorely shows.

That the recognition and remediation of unconscious bias entails discomfort is logical. But twisting that logic around to claim that anything goes as long as it causes defensiveness and discomfort is bollix.

It’s only bollix if you don’t see the discomfort as *the entire point.* What PP is describing is a struggle session, and the whole point is to make the subjects feel distress and thereby strengthen the power of those conducting the struggle session, and send a clear message about conformity to those watching. It’s no accident that this happens at schools.

Some historical background:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-criticism_(Marxism–Leninism)#Soviet_Union

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session

I realize this sounds hyperbolic. To be clear, I don’t believe that the “white fragility” discourse has the same power structure as Soviet Russia or Maoist China. That would be an overblown accusation, obviously. But I do believe the underlying social dynamics are very, very similar, in that public confessions of shame are utilized in order to bring other people in line and reinforce an orthodoxy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The audacity of caucasity on this post!

"White affinity group" is a very commonly used term nationally, both in educational and employment settings. The outrage here suggests you all either don't read, don't care to be better, and/or do exactly what such a group would challenge you to stop doing.

As several have pointed out, public institutions use resources to support marginalized/underrepresented groups all. the. time. Is the problem here that whiteness is not being centered and exhalted? Because that's how the bulk of you sound.

Also, stop saying 'woke.'

So language matters in one direction only? Some people are rightfully allowed to be offended by skin-based insults, while it's open season on other groups? This mindset is exactly that displayed in the SWS program description and is what is likely to undermine the program's presumable goals.

No it’s white fragility by textbook definition and the faulty logic presented by the offended white folk on this thread is a tragically ironic example of why these initiatives are sorely needed. In all honesty, they basis of this work is pushing past the feelings of defensiveness and discomfort for the sake of growth. It is quite known and discussed that many families will feel the way many of you are feeling. The goal of the work is to being forth those who are open and willing to push past that discomfort and learn something. This change is painfully and deeply rooted. This is century work and thank goodness for those who embark on it.

Being "discussed" does not make it scientific. Being in a textbook does not make it factually correct, as our 20th century sorely shows.

That the recognition and remediation of unconscious bias entails discomfort is logical. But twisting that logic around to claim that anything goes as long as it causes defensiveness and discomfort is bollix.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The audacity of caucasity on this post!

"White affinity group" is a very commonly used term nationally, both in educational and employment settings. The outrage here suggests you all either don't read, don't care to be better, and/or do exactly what such a group would challenge you to stop doing.

As several have pointed out, public institutions use resources to support marginalized/underrepresented groups all. the. time. Is the problem here that whiteness is not being centered and exhalted? Because that's how the bulk of you sound.

Also, stop saying 'woke.'

So language matters in one direction only? Some people are rightfully allowed to be offended by skin-based insults, while it's open season on other groups? This mindset is exactly that displayed in the SWS program description and is what is likely to undermine the program's presumable goals.

No it’s white fragility by textbook definition and the faulty logic presented by the offended white folk on this thread is a tragically ironic example of why these initiatives are sorely needed. In all honesty, they basis of this work is pushing past the feelings of defensiveness and discomfort for the sake of growth. It is quite known and discussed that many families will feel the way many of you are feeling. The goal of the work is to being forth those who are open and willing to push past that discomfort and learn something. This change is painfully and deeply rooted. This is century work and thank goodness for those who embark on it.

I really think the organizers should get a clue because they are losing people who would otherwise probably be fierce allies. This is a ultra-liberal population in an ultra-liberal city. It’s basically the epicenter of “woke” (dumbest word ever) ideology. I personally agree with 98% of SWS’s agenda and when people of color share their perspectives, my default position is to close my mouth and listen.

But I also think that it’s problematic for a public school to hold a race based group with the description served up by SWS. And when the response to questioning these problematic descriptions is “you’re so fragile,” that makes me think you don’t really have anything of substance to say to the legitimate concerns raised on this thread. It’s the equivalent of the republican “F your feelings” line. Do better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The audacity of caucasity on this post!

"White affinity group" is a very commonly used term nationally, both in educational and employment settings. The outrage here suggests you all either don't read, don't care to be better, and/or do exactly what such a group would challenge you to stop doing.

As several have pointed out, public institutions use resources to support marginalized/underrepresented groups all. the. time. Is the problem here that whiteness is not being centered and exhalted? Because that's how the bulk of you sound.

Also, stop saying 'woke.'

So language matters in one direction only? Some people are rightfully allowed to be offended by skin-based insults, while it's open season on other groups? This mindset is exactly that displayed in the SWS program description and is what is likely to undermine the program's presumable goals.

No it’s white fragility by textbook definition and the faulty logic presented by the offended white folk on this thread is a tragically ironic example of why these initiatives are sorely needed. In all honesty, they basis of this work is pushing past the feelings of defensiveness and discomfort for the sake of growth. It is quite known and discussed that many families will feel the way many of you are feeling. The goal of the work is to being forth those who are open and willing to push past that discomfort and learn something. This change is painfully and deeply rooted. This is century work and thank goodness for those who embark on it.

That’s fine, but governement officials still can’t make negative characterizations based on race. It is illegal. That includes “white fragility.”

Beyond that, it is HIGHLY unlikely that your idea about “work” and “change” by white people will result in any lessening of historical inequalities. Because at the end of the day, fixing those problems has little to do with individual feelings or confessions of faith. For a school, the actual “work” is things like ensuring the school has a good phonics program so the kids can read; strong math instruction; and so forth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The audacity of caucasity on this post!

"White affinity group" is a very commonly used term nationally, both in educational and employment settings. The outrage here suggests you all either don't read, don't care to be better, and/or do exactly what such a group would challenge you to stop doing.

As several have pointed out, public institutions use resources to support marginalized/underrepresented groups all. the. time. Is the problem here that whiteness is not being centered and exhalted? Because that's how the bulk of you sound.

Also, stop saying 'woke.'

So language matters in one direction only? Some people are rightfully allowed to be offended by skin-based insults, while it's open season on other groups? This mindset is exactly that displayed in the SWS program description and is what is likely to undermine the program's presumable goals.

No it’s white fragility by textbook definition and the faulty logic presented by the offended white folk on this thread is a tragically ironic example of why these initiatives are sorely needed. In all honesty, they basis of this work is pushing past the feelings of defensiveness and discomfort for the sake of growth. It is quite known and discussed that many families will feel the way many of you are feeling. The goal of the work is to being forth those who are open and willing to push past that discomfort and learn something. This change is painfully and deeply rooted. This is century work and thank goodness for those who embark on it.

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it illegal for the government (i.e., a public school like SWS) to divide up people by race?

Also, one of the PPs also mentioned how there are Black-only events at SWS? Is this pre-1954?

Anonymous wrote:The audacity of caucasity on this post!

"White affinity group" is a very commonly used term nationally, both in educational and employment settings. The outrage here suggests you all either don't read, don't care to be better, and/or do exactly what such a group would challenge you to stop doing.

As several have pointed out, public institutions use resources to support marginalized/underrepresented groups all. the. time. Is the problem here that whiteness is not being centered and exhalted? Because that's how the bulk of you sound.

Also, stop saying 'woke.'

So language matters in one direction only? Some people are rightfully allowed to be offended by skin-based insults, while it's open season on other groups? This mindset is exactly that displayed in the SWS program description and is what is likely to undermine the program's presumable goals.

Anonymous wrote:I don't hate this. I feel like it's good to have conversations about race. I remember, I was on a committee at a day care where 99% of the staff were black and 99% of the families were white and relatively rich. It felt awkward to notice the fact. It was an excellent day care and the staff were amazing and loved, but I found out in meetings that staff were often offended and hurt by things parents and children did, and it was heartbreaking to hear. Some instances could have been cultural differences but others were racism. Gotta stop denying racism and open your ears and minds. No point in people being hurt because you stayed ignorant and defensive.

No one here is denying racism; they are objecting to the structure and agenda of this particular program. Gotta open your ears and minds and actually hear what people are saying.

Anonymous wrote:I don't hate this. I feel like it's good to have conversations about race. I remember, I was on a committee at a day care where 99% of the staff were black and 99% of the families were white and relatively rich. It felt awkward to notice the fact. It was an excellent day care and the staff were amazing and loved, but I found out in meetings that staff were often offended and hurt by things parents and children did, and it was heartbreaking to hear. Some instances could have been cultural differences but others were racism. Gotta stop denying racism and open your ears and minds. No point in people being hurt because you stayed ignorant and defensive.

This.