Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 15:45     Subject: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
Anonymous wrote:Biking works well for people who don't have to pick up and drop off kids, don't have to carry a lot of stuff, can roll into work looking like they just biked there and have that be professionally acceptable, live relatively close to work, don't have to do grocery shopping for a family after work, have place to safely store their bike at home and at work, have a safe route to work (bike lanes alone don't do it, unless they go door to door), and who know how to ride and bike and feel comfortable and are physically able to do so.

Biking doesn't work for me for the vast majority of these reasons. But I will admit; I am physically fit and could ride a bike, especially if I practiced, but it seems hella dangerous and sweaty and unpleasant to me. I'd rather live a mile from work and walk, which I'd do happily when it's over 30 and under 85 degrees.


There are people who do pickup/dropoff, carry stuff on a bike, look professionally acceptable, and grocery shop on a bike. So it's definitely possible to do all of those things on a bike. Especially on an e-bike! I think the most important things are a safe route and secure bike storage.
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 15:41     Subject: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
There is a new trend in public discourse to artfully couch an opinion as fact.
I don't agree with your premise in the bolded--see how easy that is?

OP here. The difference between you and me is that I have data to back up my assertions that autos present (increasing) safety issues to other users of public space, namely pedestrians and bicyclists:
https://www.mwcog.org/newsroom/2022/04/26/increase-in-pedestrian-bicyclist-deaths-prompts-action-across-dc-region/#:~:text=Mirroring%20national%20trends%2C%20the%20region's,in%20the%20region%20in%202021.

See how easy that is?


yes it is true that auto are bigger and faster than peds and bicylist but that doesn't mean that auto activity needs to decrease--one could argue that peds and bikes should stay out of roads that cars use.


This is PP, to add, so just because you think really really reallly strongly about something or really really really want it to happen doesn't mean that it is a fact. Artful, clever use of words isn't effective at changing minds. Look at this thread for example, you are trying so hard, but have not changed anyone's opinion.
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 15:39     Subject: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
Anonymous wrote:
There is a new trend in public discourse to artfully couch an opinion as fact.
I don't agree with your premise in the bolded--see how easy that is?

OP here. The difference between you and me is that I have data to back up my assertions that autos present (increasing) safety issues to other users of public space, namely pedestrians and bicyclists:
https://www.mwcog.org/newsroom/2022/04/26/increase-in-pedestrian-bicyclist-deaths-prompts-action-across-dc-region/#:~:text=Mirroring%20national%20trends%2C%20the%20region's,in%20the%20region%20in%202021.

See how easy that is?


yes it is true that auto are bigger and faster than peds and bicylist but that doesn't mean that auto activity needs to decrease--one could argue that peds and bikes should stay out of roads that cars use.
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 15:34     Subject: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
Anonymous wrote:Biking works well for people who don't have to pick up and drop off kids, don't have to carry a lot of stuff, can roll into work looking like they just biked there and have that be professionally acceptable, live relatively close to work, don't have to do grocery shopping for a family after work, have place to safely store their bike at home and at work, have a safe route to work (bike lanes alone don't do it, unless they go door to door), and who know how to ride and bike and feel comfortable and are physically able to do so.

Biking doesn't work for me for the vast majority of these reasons. But I will admit; I am physically fit and could ride a bike, especially if I practiced, but it seems hella dangerous and sweaty and unpleasant to me. I'd rather live a mile from work and walk, which I'd do happily when it's over 30 and under 85 degrees.

+100

Agree with absolutely everything.
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 15:31     Subject: Re:What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would bike more if there wasn't an expectation in my office of not being a sweaty mess.



And super smelly. Thank you.


I bike 8 miles each way to work. I manage this without being a sweaty or smelly mess


Bravo for you. You can have a sticker.

(also: are you sure?)

It’s a strong bet that colleagues would disagree.
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 15:29     Subject: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
It would take me 2.5 x as long to bike the 8 miles to my office as it does to drive. Add to that arriving at the office sweaty, and it's just not practical or convenient at all.

But what makes it truly out of the question is daycare drop off. Even if I was willing to put my 3 year old on my bike (I am not) it would end up being a 90+ minute commute which is not only a really long chunk out of the day but also makes it extremely difficult to get DD to bed at a reasonable hour.

If it weren't for daycare drop off I'd definitely consider the bus even though it does take at least double the time. That is definitely more practical than biking. I love taking the bus and did so often before DD was born.

Btw
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 15:19     Subject: Re:What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would bike more if there wasn't an expectation in my office of not being a sweaty mess.



And super smelly. Thank you.


I bike 8 miles each way to work. I manage this without being a sweaty or smelly mess


Bravo for you. You can have a sticker.

(also: are you sure?)
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 15:04     Subject: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
Anonymous wrote:Biking works well for people who don't have to pick up and drop off kids, don't have to carry a lot of stuff, can roll into work looking like they just biked there and have that be professionally acceptable, live relatively close to work, don't have to do grocery shopping for a family after work, have place to safely store their bike at home and at work, have a safe route to work (bike lanes alone don't do it, unless they go door to door), and who know how to ride and bike and feel comfortable and are physically able to do so.

Biking doesn't work for me for the vast majority of these reasons. But I will admit; I am physically fit and could ride a bike, especially if I practiced, but it seems hella dangerous and sweaty and unpleasant to me. I'd rather live a mile from work and walk, which I'd do happily when it's over 30 and under 85 degrees.


That pretty much covers everything for me too.
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 15:04     Subject: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
I would need bus/bike to take the same time as driving. My time is my most valuable resource.

I need to live in a place with better weather. I can't show up to work sweaty, rained on, or dirty from riding my bike through puddles or sitting at crowded bus stops in the rain

I need to work at a job that allows casual clothes. My father rode his bike to work for 40 years, but he also was allowed to wear shorts and a tshirt and lived in san diego where the weather is appropriate for that. I'm not going to ride in dress clothes or figure out how to shower at work (how?! my office has no showers)

I need to not be responsible for picking up or dropping off my children. I'm not going to handle buses that run 20 minutes where if my kid takes an extra 2 minutes to put on his shoes I am now 20 minutes behind schedule.

So basically, no. Not happening at this point in my life. A better option to figure out how to get employers to encourage work from home more.
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 15:02     Subject: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
Biking works well for people who don't have to pick up and drop off kids, don't have to carry a lot of stuff, can roll into work looking like they just biked there and have that be professionally acceptable, live relatively close to work, don't have to do grocery shopping for a family after work, have place to safely store their bike at home and at work, have a safe route to work (bike lanes alone don't do it, unless they go door to door), and who know how to ride and bike and feel comfortable and are physically able to do so.

Biking doesn't work for me for the vast majority of these reasons. But I will admit; I am physically fit and could ride a bike, especially if I practiced, but it seems hella dangerous and sweaty and unpleasant to me. I'd rather live a mile from work and walk, which I'd do happily when it's over 30 and under 85 degrees.
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 15:01     Subject: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As we all know, the use of personal vehicles has a significant impact on the environment and presents safety issues to others in the public space, such as pedestrians and bicyclists. For everyone's benefit, it's going to become increasingly important to explore alternative modes of transportation as we get deeper into the 21st century.

To that end, DC and many other big cities are beginning to implement more pedestrian-friendly street and intersection designs, in addition to dedicated spaces for other modes of transportation such bikes and buses over the exclusive use of personal vehicles. I'm familiar with the pushback that a small but vocal minority has made in framing this as a 'war on cars', as they feel their entitlement to exclusive use of the right-of-way is being threatened.

What I find interesting in all of this is that many of these skeptics look at the installation of bus-only lanes or protected bike lanes and NEVER seriously consider personally switching to those other modes now that they are faster, safer, or more convenient. Instead, many seem to express antagonism or cynicism reflexively, possibly because they 'identify' as motorists and would never stoop so low as to take the bus or bike?

Ok, perhaps I'm projecting a bit. But for many of these skeptical folks evidently these measures are not far enough to overcome the legacy car culture this country has, or the perceived convenience or benefits of driving. So I am curious to know what it would realistically take for DC motorists to consider walking, riding a bike or taking the bus to get to work, run errands, etc.

For instance:
What if work or shops were closer to homes?
What if bus stops were located on your residential corner and came every 5-7 minutes dependably?
What if the roads were redesigned so that the bike lanes were universal and protected, or adjacent to sidewalks (not in the roadway)?
What if stores provided free and secured bike parking/valeting?
What if buses were free, and the purchase of e-bikes/cargo bikes was heavily subsidized?

I'm interested in hearing the DCUM community's thoughts and ideas on the matter.


There is a new trend in public discourse to artfully couch an opinion as fact.
I don't agree with your premise in the bolded--see how easy that is?


DP. You can have whatever opinions you want to have about facts, but the facts remain facts.
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 14:56     Subject: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
Anonymous wrote:
There is a new trend in public discourse to artfully couch an opinion as fact.
I don't agree with your premise in the bolded--see how easy that is?

OP here. The difference between you and me is that I have data to back up my assertions that autos present (increasing) safety issues to other users of public space, namely pedestrians and bicyclists:
https://www.mwcog.org/newsroom/2022/04/26/increase-in-pedestrian-bicyclist-deaths-prompts-action-across-dc-region/#:~:text=Mirroring%20national%20trends%2C%20the%20region's,in%20the%20region%20in%202021.

See how easy that is?

NP. I couldn’t help but notice that the PPP disputed your environmental claims and you posted a link about traffic fatalities. Doesn’t look like you’re backing anything up with data. Instead you are obscuring and obfuscating. I feel sad for you that you feel the need to go through so much effort to lie anonymously online like this. You’re here posting 24-7 about bicycles and lying about it to boot. So weird.
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 14:35     Subject: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
I don't have a car, so I do metro/bus/walk/bike almost everywhere (I have zipcar for times I really need a car). Since this thread is nominally about buses and they're kind of the best universal option on that list in my option, I'll confine my opinions to buses. What would make my life infinitely less annoying would be:

1. Bus schedules that allowed for non-commute options. Right now almost all DC buses have almost no or no service outside of prime commuting times. If people "have to" drive to get to their yoga class on the weekend, they're likely to stick to the same method for getting to the office. The suburbs are particularly egregious for this -- I have left a couple of hobbies because of how inaccessible they are.

2. Regular, reliable bus schedules that are easy to find online or at the stops. For example, the Fairfax Connector has mysterious red bustop posts that don't tell you when routes stop there, never mind when, and the paper maps don't show where all the stops are. This means the system almost completely opaque to new riders. (Their website is also borderline useless.)

3. Frequent buses and trains. In DC, we tend to think of ourselves as lucky if the bus comes every 30-60 minutes, but realistically 10-15 would make people feel they could just catch a bus "whenever." The circulators are supposed to come that often and they do 3/4ths of the time and I find them very easy/convenient except for the 1/4th of the time, when I have to wait nearly an hour (usually I give up and walk).
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 14:31     Subject: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
There is a new trend in public discourse to artfully couch an opinion as fact.
I don't agree with your premise in the bolded--see how easy that is?

OP here. The difference between you and me is that I have data to back up my assertions that autos present (increasing) safety issues to other users of public space, namely pedestrians and bicyclists:
https://www.mwcog.org/newsroom/2022/04/26/increase-in-pedestrian-bicyclist-deaths-prompts-action-across-dc-region/#:~:text=Mirroring%20national%20trends%2C%20the%20region's,in%20the%20region%20in%202021.

See how easy that is?
Anonymous
Post 02/15/2023 14:28     Subject: What would it ACTUALLY take for you to consider biking or taking the bus, in lieu of motoring?
I don't drive. You still can't get me on a bike and only very rarely on a city bus. I walk (85% of the time) or I take an uber or I take the metro.

How would that change?

Biking? Nothing. I am not a confident biker. I also cannot imagine riding a bike in 105 degree weather, pouring rain, the rare days it's freezing.

I would take the metro more often if they didn't have 10-20 minute intervals (cannot imagine doing that at rush hour) and went more places. Also, safety is definitely something the city should address. While it's not a deal breaker for me, people's concerns about safety are not overblown - a station manager at Potomac Metro was recently killed!

Bus? I used to ride the bus when I was broke and it was the only way to visit some relatives and it was full of acting out mentally ill people and had really inconvenient intervals (some buses have half an hour intervals) plus you are still stuck in traffic. It's been decades and I still don't want to ride the bus and do it at most a couple of times a year. Dedicated bus lane, reasonable intervals and ensuring safety could get me back on but I cannot see the city doing much about any of that.