Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are also Key dropouts. My observation from transitioning from Key to a different APS elementary school is that Key does sacrifice some teacher quality in order to hire bilingual teachers. We had a few fantastic teachers at Key, a few terrible teachers, and a few mediocre teachers. Kids who do well in immersion have great success- kids who are not making it need to cut their losses- in hindsight I wish we had pulled out faster. It gets harder and harder as the kids get older if they have not picked up Spanish- and the kids get more and more used to sitting in a classroom and not really having any idea what is going on- which I think is an ongoing problem for my kid- they became so accustomed to not understanding b/c of Spanish, that now when they are struggling with concepts in English, they still don't ask questions or speak up.
Key is also not well equipped to deal with disabilities. The fact is, they don't have special ed support in the Spanish classroom.

You said in hindsight you wished you had pulled out faster. How did you know it wasn't working? Did the teacher mention something? Did they not want to go to school? This is my main concern, I don't know that my child is going to speak up if he doesn't get something . Actually I know they won't because they will think it's totally their fault and who knows how long until I find out they are behind.

Your child's experience will be very different that anyone's in the past. This will be the first class using an 80/20 model, meaning 80% of their day will be in Spanish. (They currently use a 50/50 model.) There will be new assessments given in Spanish to see if your child is meeting benchmarks.

But remember, your child most likely didn't start talking in English until closer to age 1. Even then it was simple 1-4 word "sentences". It takes 2-4 years for most babies/toddlers to speak in full conversation. Learning a second language follows a similar path. They will learn slowly and then just take off at some point....

Anonymous wrote:We are also Key dropouts. My observation from transitioning from Key to a different APS elementary school is that Key does sacrifice some teacher quality in order to hire bilingual teachers. We had a few fantastic teachers at Key, a few terrible teachers, and a few mediocre teachers. Kids who do well in immersion have great success- kids who are not making it need to cut their losses- in hindsight I wish we had pulled out faster. It gets harder and harder as the kids get older if they have not picked up Spanish- and the kids get more and more used to sitting in a classroom and not really having any idea what is going on- which I think is an ongoing problem for my kid- they became so accustomed to not understanding b/c of Spanish, that now when they are struggling with concepts in English, they still don't ask questions or speak up.
Key is also not well equipped to deal with disabilities. The fact is, they don't have special ed support in the Spanish classroom.

You said in hindsight you wished you had pulled out faster. How did you know it wasn't working? Did the teacher mention something? Did they not want to go to school? This is my main concern, I don't know that my child is going to speak up if he doesn't get something . Actually I know they won't because they will think it's totally their fault and who knows how long until I find out they are behind.

Anonymous wrote:We are a different “dropout” family. Our kids spoke Spanish going in to the program. We didn’t leave because of immersion, nor did we leave the area. We left for some of the other reasons mentioned in this thread.

Thank you - I am one of the posters that has questions about whether to start children there. It sounds like instruction is mixed and you need to supplement (As may be the case at other schools), and that there is a drop off in students for a variety of reasons. Putting aside people moving, or not picking the language, I'm going to ask more pointedly -- what do I need to watch for to make sure Key is working for my child? Understanding this is an anonymous forum, what were the things that gave you pause and made you consider other schools? I don't know if that's a basic question, but we get so little information already at preschool and everything I hear says that we are going to get even less information once they go to public school, that I am concerned as to how I would even know if the kids are falling behind. I don't worry about them being bottom of the class, or not challenged enough because they are top of the class. I worry about them being in the middle and sort of being moved along because they sort of understand but they don't actually have a good foundation. Though to be fair, that is a concern of mine not unique to Key but to APS, though it's a larger concern with the language piece

We are a different “dropout” family. Our kids spoke Spanish going in to the program. We didn’t leave because of immersion, nor did we leave the area. We left for some of the other reasons mentioned in this thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mistake we made was not bailing earlier. Others have a different experience. Our kid is thriving elsewhere.

This. Get out after first grade if it is not working. We got out after this, but I am so glad that DS was able to go to a more academically advanced school for the last few years of elementary. I shudder to think how far behind he would be in middle school now had we stayed all the way through.

So there have been quite a few families here that have said that they left Key (unless it's the same poster), which is surprising because all we ever hear is how nice and welcoming everyone is. We speak the language at home and the idea of my kid being part of this Key family with other kids who look like them sounds very nice. But we don't mess with academics - that is priority 1 to us. How did you find out it was not working for your first grader? Do they even get grades now since they change the standards? One poster said they were concerned about math. I don't really know how I would know if it's working for them or not at K or first grade because I doubt the teachers are telling you unless it's REALLY bad.

I'm sure its different posters. I have only posted once in this thread, (until now) and we are Key dropouts. People aren't dropping out of Key b/c it isn't nice and welcoming- people are dropping out b/c their kids aren't picking up Spanish (for a variety of reasons) and are then falling behind in math, and becoming discouraged, etc. It is an extremely common story. It is reflected in the Key numbers- e.g.- look at 2018-2019 Key kindergartners- for the month of January, 122. Now look at 2022-2023 Key 5th graders (same kids)- 102. That's 20 net kids that have left the school as they moved through the grades. Obviously the only reason for departure is not immersion, but its a big part of the story. IF you want to avoid "pandemic effects" or 'move effects" look at the 4th grade at the end of 2020- 98 students, as compared to when those kids were kindergartners in june 2016, 118- again a net loss of 20. (FWIW I kind of randomly picked these cohorts and these years b/c I had some familiarity with kids in them- but I would imagine you could pull a lot of other cohorts and get to a similar number.
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/U-Mem_281_MEMBERSHIP-SUMMARY-ALL.pdf
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Jan-31-Membership-2018-19.pdf
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/June-2016-Spreadsheet-for-Web.pdf

Sure, some kids leave immersion… but this is also a very transient area where a lot of families move, and unlike neighborhood schools, immersion schools won’t have any kids moving into the school after first grade (or very few— they’d need to know some Spanish already).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mistake we made was not bailing earlier. Others have a different experience. Our kid is thriving elsewhere.

This. Get out after first grade if it is not working. We got out after this, but I am so glad that DS was able to go to a more academically advanced school for the last few years of elementary. I shudder to think how far behind he would be in middle school now had we stayed all the way through.

So there have been quite a few families here that have said that they left Key (unless it's the same poster), which is surprising because all we ever hear is how nice and welcoming everyone is. We speak the language at home and the idea of my kid being part of this Key family with other kids who look like them sounds very nice. But we don't mess with academics - that is priority 1 to us. How did you find out it was not working for your first grader? Do they even get grades now since they change the standards? One poster said they were concerned about math. I don't really know how I would know if it's working for them or not at K or first grade because I doubt the teachers are telling you unless it's REALLY bad.

I'm sure its different posters. I have only posted once in this thread, (until now) and we are Key dropouts. People aren't dropping out of Key b/c it isn't nice and welcoming- people are dropping out b/c their kids aren't picking up Spanish (for a variety of reasons) and are then falling behind in math, and becoming discouraged, etc. It is an extremely common story. It is reflected in the Key numbers- e.g.- look at 2018-2019 Key kindergartners- for the month of January, 122. Now look at 2022-2023 Key 5th graders (same kids)- 102. That's 20 net kids that have left the school as they moved through the grades. Obviously the only reason for departure is not immersion, but its a big part of the story. IF you want to avoid "pandemic effects" or 'move effects" look at the 4th grade at the end of 2020- 98 students, as compared to when those kids were kindergartners in june 2016, 118- again a net loss of 20. (FWIW I kind of randomly picked these cohorts and these years b/c I had some familiarity with kids in them- but I would imagine you could pull a lot of other cohorts and get to a similar number.
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/U-Mem_281_MEMBERSHIP-SUMMARY-ALL.pdf
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Jan-31-Membership-2018-19.pdf
https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/June-2016-Spreadsheet-for-Web.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are also Key dropouts. My observation from transitioning from Key to a different APS elementary school is that Key does sacrifice some teacher quality in order to hire bilingual teachers. We had a few fantastic teachers at Key, a few terrible teachers, and a few mediocre teachers. Kids who do well in immersion have great success- kids who are not making it need to cut their losses- in hindsight I wish we had pulled out faster. It gets harder and harder as the kids get older if they have not picked up Spanish- and the kids get more and more used to sitting in a classroom and not really having any idea what is going on- which I think is an ongoing problem for my kid- they became so accustomed to not understanding b/c of Spanish, that now when they are struggling with concepts in English, they still don't ask questions or speak up.
Key is also not well equipped to deal with disabilities. The fact is, they don't have special ed support in the Spanish classroom.

I agree about the sacrifice of some teacher quality for bilingualism. I am probably going to get flamed for this, but in our experience, the English teachers were much better than most of the Spanish teachers.

Interesting. IME, Spanish instruction at the HS level in APS (at least at W-L and Yorktown) is terrible, and I was second-guessing myself on not doing immersion. But it sounds as though Key wouldn't have helped.

This hasn’t been our experience at all at Claremont. I’d say we’ve had a mix of quality across English and Spanish teachers - but to the degree you’d expect anywhere. The school has been a great experience for our kids. We know a few kids who have left immersion but for the most part, we see kids thriving and learning a new language while doing it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are also Key dropouts. My observation from transitioning from Key to a different APS elementary school is that Key does sacrifice some teacher quality in order to hire bilingual teachers. We had a few fantastic teachers at Key, a few terrible teachers, and a few mediocre teachers. Kids who do well in immersion have great success- kids who are not making it need to cut their losses- in hindsight I wish we had pulled out faster. It gets harder and harder as the kids get older if they have not picked up Spanish- and the kids get more and more used to sitting in a classroom and not really having any idea what is going on- which I think is an ongoing problem for my kid- they became so accustomed to not understanding b/c of Spanish, that now when they are struggling with concepts in English, they still don't ask questions or speak up.
Key is also not well equipped to deal with disabilities. The fact is, they don't have special ed support in the Spanish classroom.

I agree about the sacrifice of some teacher quality for bilingualism. I am probably going to get flamed for this, but in our experience, the English teachers were much better than most of the Spanish teachers.

Interesting. IME, Spanish instruction at the HS level in APS (at least at W-L and Yorktown) is terrible, and I was second-guessing myself on not doing immersion. But it sounds as though Key wouldn't have helped.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mistake we made was not bailing earlier. Others have a different experience. Our kid is thriving elsewhere.

This. Get out after first grade if it is not working. We got out after this, but I am so glad that DS was able to go to a more academically advanced school for the last few years of elementary. I shudder to think how far behind he would be in middle school now had we stayed all the way through.

So there have been quite a few families here that have said that they left Key (unless it's the same poster), which is surprising because all we ever hear is how nice and welcoming everyone is. We speak the language at home and the idea of my kid being part of this Key family with other kids who look like them sounds very nice. But we don't mess with academics - that is priority 1 to us. How did you find out it was not working for your first grader? Do they even get grades now since they change the standards? One poster said they were concerned about math. I don't really know how I would know if it's working for them or not at K or first grade because I doubt the teachers are telling you unless it's REALLY bad.

Anonymous wrote:The mistake we made was not bailing earlier. Others have a different experience. Our kid is thriving elsewhere.

This. Get out after first grade if it is not working. We got out after this, but I am so glad that DS was able to go to a more academically advanced school for the last few years of elementary. I shudder to think how far behind he would be in middle school now had we stayed all the way through.

The mistake we made was not bailing earlier. Others have a different experience. Our kid is thriving elsewhere.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are also Key dropouts. My observation from transitioning from Key to a different APS elementary school is that Key does sacrifice some teacher quality in order to hire bilingual teachers. We had a few fantastic teachers at Key, a few terrible teachers, and a few mediocre teachers. Kids who do well in immersion have great success- kids who are not making it need to cut their losses- in hindsight I wish we had pulled out faster. It gets harder and harder as the kids get older if they have not picked up Spanish- and the kids get more and more used to sitting in a classroom and not really having any idea what is going on- which I think is an ongoing problem for my kid- they became so accustomed to not understanding b/c of Spanish, that now when they are struggling with concepts in English, they still don't ask questions or speak up.
Key is also not well equipped to deal with disabilities. The fact is, they don't have special ed support in the Spanish classroom.

They do have special Ed support in the Spanish classroom (at least they do now).

I'm glad to hear that. It is definitely a change since we were there- but is something there were lots of people advocating for, so I am glad they have made this change.

Anonymous wrote:We are also Key dropouts. My observation from transitioning from Key to a different APS elementary school is that Key does sacrifice some teacher quality in order to hire bilingual teachers. We had a few fantastic teachers at Key, a few terrible teachers, and a few mediocre teachers. Kids who do well in immersion have great success- kids who are not making it need to cut their losses- in hindsight I wish we had pulled out faster. It gets harder and harder as the kids get older if they have not picked up Spanish- and the kids get more and more used to sitting in a classroom and not really having any idea what is going on- which I think is an ongoing problem for my kid- they became so accustomed to not understanding b/c of Spanish, that now when they are struggling with concepts in English, they still don't ask questions or speak up.
Key is also not well equipped to deal with disabilities. The fact is, they don't have special ed support in the Spanish classroom.

They do have special Ed support in the Spanish classroom (at least they do now).

Anonymous wrote:We are also Key dropouts. My observation from transitioning from Key to a different APS elementary school is that Key does sacrifice some teacher quality in order to hire bilingual teachers. We had a few fantastic teachers at Key, a few terrible teachers, and a few mediocre teachers. Kids who do well in immersion have great success- kids who are not making it need to cut their losses- in hindsight I wish we had pulled out faster. It gets harder and harder as the kids get older if they have not picked up Spanish- and the kids get more and more used to sitting in a classroom and not really having any idea what is going on- which I think is an ongoing problem for my kid- they became so accustomed to not understanding b/c of Spanish, that now when they are struggling with concepts in English, they still don't ask questions or speak up.
Key is also not well equipped to deal with disabilities. The fact is, they don't have special ed support in the Spanish classroom.

I agree about the sacrifice of some teacher quality for bilingualism. I am probably going to get flamed for this, but in our experience, the English teachers were much better than most of the Spanish teachers.

We are also Key dropouts. My observation from transitioning from Key to a different APS elementary school is that Key does sacrifice some teacher quality in order to hire bilingual teachers. We had a few fantastic teachers at Key, a few terrible teachers, and a few mediocre teachers. Kids who do well in immersion have great success- kids who are not making it need to cut their losses- in hindsight I wish we had pulled out faster. It gets harder and harder as the kids get older if they have not picked up Spanish- and the kids get more and more used to sitting in a classroom and not really having any idea what is going on- which I think is an ongoing problem for my kid- they became so accustomed to not understanding b/c of Spanish, that now when they are struggling with concepts in English, they still don't ask questions or speak up.
Key is also not well equipped to deal with disabilities. The fact is, they don't have special ed support in the Spanish classroom.