Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has she done that makes her face look so swollen? I have friends that use fillers and they use quite a lot but don’t look like that. Would it be a very extreme face lift?

No, it's the refusal to get a face lift. It's pumping your face constantly to avoid the inevitable. Face lifts generally look great it's the fillers that are cringey.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Madonna is a mess - all that work on face and her hands show her age

Oh god is that her boyfriend or her son

The hand/face contrast is striking.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Madonna is a mess - all that work on face and her hands show her age

Oh god is that her boyfriend or her son

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you saying that's not really what Gwen looks like - this photo is from a year ago. Totally what she looks like.

She looks plastic but pretty here. Her face doesn’t look as stretched out. She’s following a certain lifestyle just like you “no frills, no nonsense” types wearing LL Bean and walking your dogs. Yours is no virtuous or better than hers.

I don’t agree with this. And I don’t see it as an honest argument. I’ve lived in big cities for most of my life and the truth is, when a thing hits that supposedly fixes a fundamental ‘problem’ with how a woman looks, the women who can’t afford that option or nope out of it are criticized. Be honest FGS. When blowouts became a thing in the early noughts, I had so many colleagues and acquaintances who opined openly that women who didn’t get blowouts were lazy and if too poor weren’t ambitious enough. Same argument - contemporaneous- about getting waxing services when J Sisters brought the Brazilian trend. Same argument when Botox became wider spread around the same time. There is contempt towards women there if they can’t economically choose that form of let’s call it “self-care” (another conversation) as just not being winners at life, too bad so sad! And there’s a bizarre torquing of essential concepts of feminism and solidarity where even pointing out - anonymously, not gossiping at school pickup or actually saying this - how damned freakish some of this looks is misogynistic. It’s a complex conversation. Women who age with essentially no syringe or scalpel based interventions from free choice or economic necessity don’t get praised - they’re treated as losers who’ve given up. If we can’t yuck someone’s yum where that yum is Juvaderm, we shouldn’t pick and pick at women for the crime of “looking old” instead of Forever 38.

I went to a fancy-ish store in Manhattan this past week and Stefani-face, as seen in OP’s starter post, was everywhere. Not an exaggeration. It was really startling and didn’t look good. Going down the road of invasive dermatology just seems like a trap from my seat in the peanut gallery.

I love your analysis, PP, spot on. It rings true, as someone who can no longer afford the Interventions of the Year due to divorce, yet still living in Chevy Chase / Bethesda among the FillerLaserBlephVeneer crowd

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Anonymous wrote:I really don’t think this is a “rich women” thing. Sadly women of all socioeconomic classes do this.

OTOH my mother and her friends are all “rich” women and they are aging old school NE Yankee style, grey men’s hair cuts, no makeup, turtlenecks and pearl studs. So its really more of a class than a wealth thing.

Thank God someone is here to defend rich women. The right rich women anyway.

Happy to do it! You can ask me anything about the “right” way to age, my people have very strong opinions.

Please tell me how to age like an NE Yankee, I am curious

OK, I will.

You develop a non-nonsense approach to life -- you get up early, you spend a chunk of the day outside, even in foul weather -- probably with dogs -- you don't mind your skin being weathered b/c it's proof you spent your life skiing, sailing and gardening. Plus your husband and all the women around you are strongly supporting this ethos. You love to walk. You even go on vacations to walk -- like rambling through the Cottwsolds for example. You believe a good brisk walk and a hot cup of tea will fix most any mood.

You don't complai. You don't get waxed, blow-outs, manicures. You don't spend money on yourself as in "self-care" unless buying a new bulb-digger to plant fall bulbs is considered self-care. Maybe you slap on some lipstick for Christmas Vespers at church.

You under no circumstances try to be sexy or trendy. You are practical and timeless in your fashion.

You focus on family, volunteer work in your community -- esp. if it's plants/garden related!, do the NYT crossword puzzle, carry on centuries old traditions like baking weird food no one actually wants, decoating and celebrating all the holidays, and most importantly embracing this stage of life as an adult women who has earned respect and dignity and is not trying to recapture her youth.

Oh and books, always be reading something that someone you respect suggested. Start your sentences with "The other day I heard on NPR . . ."

You join -- church, civic groups, tennis ladders, garden clubs, book clubs etc.

Of course what makes this all possible is that literally all of the people in my mom's social circle are the same! NPR-listening, no-nonsense, dog-loving, gardeners.

Huh. I grew up in New England, my parents still live there, and while I def see some of that "still shoveling the driveway at 90" sort of thing my mother and her friends are a lot artsier, and a lot more vain. My mom hasn't had surgery or fillers but she spends a good fortune on skincare products - and her skin looks great. She's always worn makeup and gotten manicures. She is partially disabled and we are Jewish, and she isn't going to church or spending all day outside. We do love gardening, though - you've got us there.

But wow you sure have a limited view of what "New England" women are like. I'm guessing you're from a wealthy town in Connecticut?

Actually, a wealthy town in Mass! But I am only talking about my mom and her people. Of course NE is filled with all types, but it is striking this sub-culture of NE women like my mom and her friends who seem to totally buck the current trends of long, highlighted hair, botox, fake tans, teddy clothes for older women. They seem to totally own their age.

This is also coastal Maine women.

+1 as a coastal Maine woman. The description is me other than the church stuff.

I’m the coastal Maine poster. I’m in DC right now but the minute I cross the bridge into Maine I feel my shoulders drop and I begin to breathe differently. Do you know the feeling I mean?

A Congregational or Episcopal Church can be great for community, service, and choir. Just saying! Cheers, Maine friends.

I do. Once I hit the Maine side I can smell the pine.

Ugh…NP, now I am dying to live in Maine with fresh air and pine trees and LL Bean boots.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you saying that's not really what Gwen looks like - this photo is from a year ago. Totally what she looks like.

She looks plastic but pretty here. Her face doesn’t look as stretched out. She’s following a certain lifestyle just like you “no frills, no nonsense” types wearing LL Bean and walking your dogs. Yours is no virtuous or better than hers.

I don’t agree with this. And I don’t see it as an honest argument. I’ve lived in big cities for most of my life and the truth is, when a thing hits that supposedly fixes a fundamental ‘problem’ with how a woman looks, the women who can’t afford that option or nope out of it are criticized. Be honest FGS. When blowouts became a thing in the early noughts, I had so many colleagues and acquaintances who opined openly that women who didn’t get blowouts were lazy and if too poor weren’t ambitious enough. Same argument - contemporaneous- about getting waxing services when J Sisters brought the Brazilian trend. Same argument when Botox became wider spread around the same time. There is contempt towards women there if they can’t economically choose that form of let’s call it “self-care” (another conversation) as just not being winners at life, too bad so sad! And there’s a bizarre torquing of essential concepts of feminism and solidarity where even pointing out - anonymously, not gossiping at school pickup or actually saying this - how damned freakish some of this looks is misogynistic. It’s a complex conversation. Women who age with essentially no syringe or scalpel based interventions from free choice or economic necessity don’t get praised - they’re treated as losers who’ve given up. If we can’t yuck someone’s yum where that yum is Juvaderm, we shouldn’t pick and pick at women for the crime of “looking old” instead of Forever 38.

I went to a fancy-ish store in Manhattan this past week and Stefani-face, as seen in OP’s starter post, was everywhere. Not an exaggeration. It was really startling and didn’t look good. Going down the road of invasive dermatology just seems like a trap from my seat in the peanut gallery.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love how everyone is going to age naturally except on the daily botox and injection threads where the lone person who doesn't think they are a good idea is shot down. It starts with botox, goes to fillers and then mini facelifts, then major ones. In real life people look weird. TV and photos don't show the truth. All the women on the botox is great threads won't suddenly stop or ever get used to normal aging.

Most people who get Botox just get Botox.

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t think this is a “rich women” thing. Sadly women of all socioeconomic classes do this.

OTOH my mother and her friends are all “rich” women and they are aging old school NE Yankee style, grey men’s hair cuts, no makeup, turtlenecks and pearl studs. So its really more of a class than a wealth thing.

Thank God someone is here to defend rich women. The right rich women anyway.

Happy to do it! You can ask me anything about the “right” way to age, my people have very strong opinions.

Please tell me how to age like an NE Yankee, I am curious

OK, I will.

You develop a non-nonsense approach to life -- you get up early, you spend a chunk of the day outside, even in foul weather -- probably with dogs -- you don't mind your skin being weathered b/c it's proof you spent your life skiing, sailing and gardening. Plus your husband and all the women around you are strongly supporting this ethos. You love to walk. You even go on vacations to walk -- like rambling through the Cottwsolds for example. You believe a good brisk walk and a hot cup of tea will fix most any mood.

You don't complai. You don't get waxed, blow-outs, manicures. You don't spend money on yourself as in "self-care" unless buying a new bulb-digger to plant fall bulbs is considered self-care. Maybe you slap on some lipstick for Christmas Vespers at church.

You under no circumstances try to be sexy or trendy. You are practical and timeless in your fashion.

You focus on family, volunteer work in your community -- esp. if it's plants/garden related!, do the NYT crossword puzzle, carry on centuries old traditions like baking weird food no one actually wants, decoating and celebrating all the holidays, and most importantly embracing this stage of life as an adult women who has earned respect and dignity and is not trying to recapture her youth.

Oh and books, always be reading something that someone you respect suggested. Start your sentences with "The other day I heard on NPR . . ."

You join -- church, civic groups, tennis ladders, garden clubs, book clubs etc.

Of course what makes this all possible is that literally all of the people in my mom's social circle are the same! NPR-listening, no-nonsense, dog-loving, gardeners.

Huh. I grew up in New England, my parents still live there, and while I def see some of that "still shoveling the driveway at 90" sort of thing my mother and her friends are a lot artsier, and a lot more vain. My mom hasn't had surgery or fillers but she spends a good fortune on skincare products - and her skin looks great. She's always worn makeup and gotten manicures. She is partially disabled and we are Jewish, and she isn't going to church or spending all day outside. We do love gardening, though - you've got us there.

But wow you sure have a limited view of what "New England" women are like. I'm guessing you're from a wealthy town in Connecticut?

Actually, a wealthy town in Mass! But I am only talking about my mom and her people. Of course NE is filled with all types, but it is striking this sub-culture of NE women like my mom and her friends who seem to totally buck the current trends of long, highlighted hair, botox, fake tans, teddy clothes for older women. They seem to totally own their age.

This is also coastal Maine women.

+1 as a coastal Maine woman. The description is me other than the church stuff.

I’m the coastal Maine poster. I’m in DC right now but the minute I cross the bridge into Maine I feel my shoulders drop and I begin to breathe differently. Do you know the feeling I mean?

A Congregational or Episcopal Church can be great for community, service, and choir. Just saying! Cheers, Maine friends.

I do. Once I hit the Maine side I can smell the pine.

Anonymous wrote:Love how everyone is going to age naturally except on the daily botox and injection threads where the lone person who doesn't think they are a good idea is shot down. It starts with botox, goes to fillers and then mini facelifts, then major ones. In real life people look weird. TV and photos don't show the truth. All the women on the botox is great threads won't suddenly stop or ever get used to normal aging.

Anonymous wrote:Can you coastal Maine grannies start your own thread please?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you saying that's not really what Gwen looks like - this photo is from a year ago. Totally what she looks like.

She looks plastic but pretty here. Her face doesn’t look as stretched out. She’s following a certain lifestyle just like you “no frills, no nonsense” types wearing LL Bean and walking your dogs. Yours is no virtuous or better than hers.

Anonymous wrote:Frequently it looks good until it doesn't.

Anonymous wrote:Jane Fonda has had multiple surgeries but has never looked lizard or cat-like. I really don't understand how Priscilla Presley, Meg Ryan, Madonna, and Gwen Stefani have had work that looks so bad. Makes me sad to see it. They apparently don't really have the underlying self-confidence they say they have.