Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so sad to see otherwise smart people be so dumb about planning and transportation.

I remember when 270 was 2 lanes in each direction. For 45 years, the county has expanded the number of lanes, the local lanes, the X crossover exchanges, and yet, we still have a lot of bumper to bumper car traffic with corresponding dirty air and health impacts.

Time to do something else, what has been happening since the 1970's clearly isn't working.

Ah, but part of that is due to the bottleneck when the lanes go back down to 2 past Germantown.

What "something else" do you propose? Just let it keep getting worse until the highways around here are as bad as I-95 in CT?

This is where we say: transit and other ways to get around without a car, plus land use to enable it. And then you say: no, roads for cars.

Most of us just want to get to where we need to go. The problem is that suburbs were largely built around car transportation. Expanding public transport to serve all neighborhoods in a way that is efficient enough to meaningfully reduce the number of cars on the road would be very expensive. I metro to work, but I end up driving to the station because I need to drop one kid at daycare and the other at before care and its all too far apart to walk. DH does not have a logical public transport option to work (would involve a long metro ride on two lines and an infrequent bus). But his commute around the beltway takes longer and longer in the afternoon and there's no solution in sight.

The most "walkable" communities are often the most expensive, which is another reason why people end up living further and further out.

Yes, one of the reasons why they say expanding highways doesn't work is because if they widen the roads , then more people will use it by moving further out. Well,yea, they move further out because they can't afford close in. They say widening the roads just encourages people to move further out, but then the same people would complain that we don't have enough affordable housing, not enough room for green space, etc...

It's like you want your cake and eat it, too.

Public transit is super slow; you're in a tube with strangers (and their germs). I get motion sickness in buses and trains. Some people have daycare situations that doesn't work with public transport. There are many reasons why the kind of public transport we have doesn't work for people.

I am curious to hear what your cockamamie plan is to get everyone to live within walking distance of their jobs.

? what in my post does it seem like I'm telling people to live close to their jobs?

I posted up thread that a lot of people actually don't live near their jobs, in part, because they can't afford it.

DP, but what’s the point if people can’t walk to jobs? The problem in Montgomery County isn’t lack of housing. It’s lack of jobs, even in Bethesda. It has more workers than jobs. No one drives 20 miles a day to get to the grocery store but they do drive that far for jobs. We need walkable communities centered around jobs, but all we ever from planning is housing.

And also lack of housing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so sad to see otherwise smart people be so dumb about planning and transportation.

I remember when 270 was 2 lanes in each direction. For 45 years, the county has expanded the number of lanes, the local lanes, the X crossover exchanges, and yet, we still have a lot of bumper to bumper car traffic with corresponding dirty air and health impacts.

Time to do something else, what has been happening since the 1970's clearly isn't working.

Ah, but part of that is due to the bottleneck when the lanes go back down to 2 past Germantown.

What "something else" do you propose? Just let it keep getting worse until the highways around here are as bad as I-95 in CT?

This is where we say: transit and other ways to get around without a car, plus land use to enable it. And then you say: no, roads for cars.

Most of us just want to get to where we need to go. The problem is that suburbs were largely built around car transportation. Expanding public transport to serve all neighborhoods in a way that is efficient enough to meaningfully reduce the number of cars on the road would be very expensive. I metro to work, but I end up driving to the station because I need to drop one kid at daycare and the other at before care and its all too far apart to walk. DH does not have a logical public transport option to work (would involve a long metro ride on two lines and an infrequent bus). But his commute around the beltway takes longer and longer in the afternoon and there's no solution in sight.

The most "walkable" communities are often the most expensive, which is another reason why people end up living further and further out.

Yes, one of the reasons why they say expanding highways doesn't work is because if they widen the roads , then more people will use it by moving further out. Well,yea, they move further out because they can't afford close in. They say widening the roads just encourages people to move further out, but then the same people would complain that we don't have enough affordable housing, not enough room for green space, etc...

It's like you want your cake and eat it, too.

Public transit is super slow; you're in a tube with strangers (and their germs). I get motion sickness in buses and trains. Some people have daycare situations that doesn't work with public transport. There are many reasons why the kind of public transport we have doesn't work for people.

I am curious to hear what your cockamamie plan is to get everyone to live within walking distance of their jobs.

? what in my post does it seem like I'm telling people to live close to their jobs?

I posted up thread that a lot of people actually don't live near their jobs, in part, because they can't afford it.

DP, but what’s the point if people can’t walk to jobs? The problem in Montgomery County isn’t lack of housing. It’s lack of jobs, even in Bethesda. It has more workers than jobs. No one drives 20 miles a day to get to the grocery store but they do drive that far for jobs. We need walkable communities centered around jobs, but all we ever from planning is housing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so sad to see otherwise smart people be so dumb about planning and transportation.

I remember when 270 was 2 lanes in each direction. For 45 years, the county has expanded the number of lanes, the local lanes, the X crossover exchanges, and yet, we still have a lot of bumper to bumper car traffic with corresponding dirty air and health impacts.

Time to do something else, what has been happening since the 1970's clearly isn't working.

Ah, but part of that is due to the bottleneck when the lanes go back down to 2 past Germantown.

What "something else" do you propose? Just let it keep getting worse until the highways around here are as bad as I-95 in CT?

This is where we say: transit and other ways to get around without a car, plus land use to enable it. And then you say: no, roads for cars.

Most of us just want to get to where we need to go. The problem is that suburbs were largely built around car transportation. Expanding public transport to serve all neighborhoods in a way that is efficient enough to meaningfully reduce the number of cars on the road would be very expensive. I metro to work, but I end up driving to the station because I need to drop one kid at daycare and the other at before care and its all too far apart to walk. DH does not have a logical public transport option to work (would involve a long metro ride on two lines and an infrequent bus). But his commute around the beltway takes longer and longer in the afternoon and there's no solution in sight.

The most "walkable" communities are often the most expensive, which is another reason why people end up living further and further out.

Yes, one of the reasons why they say expanding highways doesn't work is because if they widen the roads , then more people will use it by moving further out. Well,yea, they move further out because they can't afford close in. They say widening the roads just encourages people to move further out, but then the same people would complain that we don't have enough affordable housing, not enough room for green space, etc...

It's like you want your cake and eat it, too.

Public transit is super slow; you're in a tube with strangers (and their germs). I get motion sickness in buses and trains. Some people have daycare situations that doesn't work with public transport. There are many reasons why the kind of public transport we have doesn't work for people.

I am curious to hear what your cockamamie plan is to get everyone to live within walking distance of their jobs.

? what in my post does it seem like I'm telling people to live close to their jobs?

I posted up thread that a lot of people actually don't live near their jobs, in part, because they can't afford it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so sad to see otherwise smart people be so dumb about planning and transportation.

I remember when 270 was 2 lanes in each direction. For 45 years, the county has expanded the number of lanes, the local lanes, the X crossover exchanges, and yet, we still have a lot of bumper to bumper car traffic with corresponding dirty air and health impacts.

Time to do something else, what has been happening since the 1970's clearly isn't working.

Ah, but part of that is due to the bottleneck when the lanes go back down to 2 past Germantown.

What "something else" do you propose? Just let it keep getting worse until the highways around here are as bad as I-95 in CT?

This is where we say: transit and other ways to get around without a car, plus land use to enable it. And then you say: no, roads for cars.

Most of us just want to get to where we need to go. The problem is that suburbs were largely built around car transportation. Expanding public transport to serve all neighborhoods in a way that is efficient enough to meaningfully reduce the number of cars on the road would be very expensive. I metro to work, but I end up driving to the station because I need to drop one kid at daycare and the other at before care and its all too far apart to walk. DH does not have a logical public transport option to work (would involve a long metro ride on two lines and an infrequent bus). But his commute around the beltway takes longer and longer in the afternoon and there's no solution in sight.

The most "walkable" communities are often the most expensive, which is another reason why people end up living further and further out.

Yes, one of the reasons why they say expanding highways doesn't work is because if they widen the roads , then more people will use it by moving further out. Well,yea, they move further out because they can't afford close in. They say widening the roads just encourages people to move further out, but then the same people would complain that we don't have enough affordable housing, not enough room for green space, etc...

It's like you want your cake and eat it, too.

Public transit is super slow; you're in a tube with strangers (and their germs). I get motion sickness in buses and trains. Some people have daycare situations that doesn't work with public transport. There are many reasons why the kind of public transport we have doesn't work for people.

I am curious to hear what your cockamamie plan is to get everyone to live within walking distance of their jobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, one of the reasons why they say expanding highways doesn't work is because if they widen the roads , then more people will use it by moving further out. Well,yea, they move further out because they can't afford close in. They say widening the roads just encourages people to move further out, but then the same people would complain that we don't have enough affordable housing, not enough room for green space, etc...

It's like you want your cake and eat it, too.

Public transit is super slow; you're in a tube with strangers (and their germs). I get motion sickness in buses and trains. Some people have daycare situations that doesn't work with public transport. There are many reasons why the kind of public transport we have doesn't work for people.

I'm sorry that you don't like public transportation - which yes, can be very slow, when your bus is stuck on a road full of cars. You know what doesn't work for a lot of people, though? Driving.

DP- I've lived in cities with efficient, reliable public transportation, and did not need to drive on a daily basis. It was great. We don't have that here- it's nice to get to certain places, like downtown DC, but is not a regionwide network. Getting back to 355- I'm not really a fan of going there but it's necessary for certain stores, appointments, etc. I don't even live that far (SIlver Spring) but just google mapped an address I went to over the weekend and it's 20 minute drive vs. an hour for public transport. Who has the time for that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so sad to see otherwise smart people be so dumb about planning and transportation.

I remember when 270 was 2 lanes in each direction. For 45 years, the county has expanded the number of lanes, the local lanes, the X crossover exchanges, and yet, we still have a lot of bumper to bumper car traffic with corresponding dirty air and health impacts.

Time to do something else, what has been happening since the 1970's clearly isn't working.

Ah, but part of that is due to the bottleneck when the lanes go back down to 2 past Germantown.

What "something else" do you propose? Just let it keep getting worse until the highways around here are as bad as I-95 in CT?

This is where we say: transit and other ways to get around without a car, plus land use to enable it. And then you say: no, roads for cars.

Most of us just want to get to where we need to go. The problem is that suburbs were largely built around car transportation. Expanding public transport to serve all neighborhoods in a way that is efficient enough to meaningfully reduce the number of cars on the road would be very expensive. I metro to work, but I end up driving to the station because I need to drop one kid at daycare and the other at before care and its all too far apart to walk. DH does not have a logical public transport option to work (would involve a long metro ride on two lines and an infrequent bus). But his commute around the beltway takes longer and longer in the afternoon and there's no solution in sight.

The most "walkable" communities are often the most expensive, which is another reason why people end up living further and further out.

Yes, one of the reasons why they say expanding highways doesn't work is because if they widen the roads , then more people will use it by moving further out. Well,yea, they move further out because they can't afford close in. They say widening the roads just encourages people to move further out, but then the same people would complain that we don't have enough affordable housing, not enough room for green space, etc...

It's like you want your cake and eat it, too.

Public transit is super slow; you're in a tube with strangers (and their germs). I get motion sickness in buses and trains. Some people have daycare situations that doesn't work with public transport. There are many reasons why the kind of public transport we have doesn't work for people.

I am curious to hear what your cockamamie plan is to get everyone to live within walking distance of their jobs.

Nobody has said anything about everyone living within walking distance of their jobs.

Then what’s the point? Your priority is that we need to upend everything because you think people should live in a small apartment and walk for a gallon of milk but still need to commute 3 hours round trip or more to their job? Your philosophy makes zero sense. Just admit it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, one of the reasons why they say expanding highways doesn't work is because if they widen the roads , then more people will use it by moving further out. Well,yea, they move further out because they can't afford close in. They say widening the roads just encourages people to move further out, but then the same people would complain that we don't have enough affordable housing, not enough room for green space, etc...

It's like you want your cake and eat it, too.

Public transit is super slow; you're in a tube with strangers (and their germs). I get motion sickness in buses and trains. Some people have daycare situations that doesn't work with public transport. There are many reasons why the kind of public transport we have doesn't work for people.

I'm sorry that you don't like public transportation - which yes, can be very slow, when your bus is stuck on a road full of cars. You know what doesn't work for a lot of people, though? Driving.

DP- I've lived in cities with efficient, reliable public transportation, and did not need to drive on a daily basis. It was great. We don't have that here- it's nice to get to certain places, like downtown DC, but is not a regionwide network. Getting back to 355- I'm not really a fan of going there but it's necessary for certain stores, appointments, etc. I don't even live that far (SIlver Spring) but just google mapped an address I went to over the weekend and it's 20 minute drive vs. an hour for public transport. Who has the time for that?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so sad to see otherwise smart people be so dumb about planning and transportation.

I remember when 270 was 2 lanes in each direction. For 45 years, the county has expanded the number of lanes, the local lanes, the X crossover exchanges, and yet, we still have a lot of bumper to bumper car traffic with corresponding dirty air and health impacts.

Time to do something else, what has been happening since the 1970's clearly isn't working.

Ah, but part of that is due to the bottleneck when the lanes go back down to 2 past Germantown.

What "something else" do you propose? Just let it keep getting worse until the highways around here are as bad as I-95 in CT?

This is where we say: transit and other ways to get around without a car, plus land use to enable it. And then you say: no, roads for cars.

Most of us just want to get to where we need to go. The problem is that suburbs were largely built around car transportation. Expanding public transport to serve all neighborhoods in a way that is efficient enough to meaningfully reduce the number of cars on the road would be very expensive. I metro to work, but I end up driving to the station because I need to drop one kid at daycare and the other at before care and its all too far apart to walk. DH does not have a logical public transport option to work (would involve a long metro ride on two lines and an infrequent bus). But his commute around the beltway takes longer and longer in the afternoon and there's no solution in sight.

The most "walkable" communities are often the most expensive, which is another reason why people end up living further and further out.

Yes, one of the reasons why they say expanding highways doesn't work is because if they widen the roads , then more people will use it by moving further out. Well,yea, they move further out because they can't afford close in. They say widening the roads just encourages people to move further out, but then the same people would complain that we don't have enough affordable housing, not enough room for green space, etc...

It's like you want your cake and eat it, too.

Public transit is super slow; you're in a tube with strangers (and their germs). I get motion sickness in buses and trains. Some people have daycare situations that doesn't work with public transport. There are many reasons why the kind of public transport we have doesn't work for people.

I am curious to hear what your cockamamie plan is to get everyone to live within walking distance of their jobs.

Nobody has said anything about everyone living within walking distance of their jobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, one of the reasons why they say expanding highways doesn't work is because if they widen the roads , then more people will use it by moving further out. Well,yea, they move further out because they can't afford close in. They say widening the roads just encourages people to move further out, but then the same people would complain that we don't have enough affordable housing, not enough room for green space, etc...

It's like you want your cake and eat it, too.

Public transit is super slow; you're in a tube with strangers (and their germs). I get motion sickness in buses and trains. Some people have daycare situations that doesn't work with public transport. There are many reasons why the kind of public transport we have doesn't work for people.

I'm sorry that you don't like public transportation - which yes, can be very slow, when your bus is stuck on a road full of cars. You know what doesn't work for a lot of people, though? Driving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so sad to see otherwise smart people be so dumb about planning and transportation.

I remember when 270 was 2 lanes in each direction. For 45 years, the county has expanded the number of lanes, the local lanes, the X crossover exchanges, and yet, we still have a lot of bumper to bumper car traffic with corresponding dirty air and health impacts.

Time to do something else, what has been happening since the 1970's clearly isn't working.

Ah, but part of that is due to the bottleneck when the lanes go back down to 2 past Germantown.

What "something else" do you propose? Just let it keep getting worse until the highways around here are as bad as I-95 in CT?

This is where we say: transit and other ways to get around without a car, plus land use to enable it. And then you say: no, roads for cars.

Most of us just want to get to where we need to go. The problem is that suburbs were largely built around car transportation. Expanding public transport to serve all neighborhoods in a way that is efficient enough to meaningfully reduce the number of cars on the road would be very expensive. I metro to work, but I end up driving to the station because I need to drop one kid at daycare and the other at before care and its all too far apart to walk. DH does not have a logical public transport option to work (would involve a long metro ride on two lines and an infrequent bus). But his commute around the beltway takes longer and longer in the afternoon and there's no solution in sight.

The most "walkable" communities are often the most expensive, which is another reason why people end up living further and further out.

Yes, one of the reasons why they say expanding highways doesn't work is because if they widen the roads , then more people will use it by moving further out. Well,yea, they move further out because they can't afford close in. They say widening the roads just encourages people to move further out, but then the same people would complain that we don't have enough affordable housing, not enough room for green space, etc...

It's like you want your cake and eat it, too.

Public transit is super slow; you're in a tube with strangers (and their germs). I get motion sickness in buses and trains. Some people have daycare situations that doesn't work with public transport. There are many reasons why the kind of public transport we have doesn't work for people.

I am curious to hear what your cockamamie plan is to get everyone to live within walking distance of their jobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so sad to see otherwise smart people be so dumb about planning and transportation.

I remember when 270 was 2 lanes in each direction. For 45 years, the county has expanded the number of lanes, the local lanes, the X crossover exchanges, and yet, we still have a lot of bumper to bumper car traffic with corresponding dirty air and health impacts.

Time to do something else, what has been happening since the 1970's clearly isn't working.

Ah, but part of that is due to the bottleneck when the lanes go back down to 2 past Germantown.

What "something else" do you propose? Just let it keep getting worse until the highways around here are as bad as I-95 in CT?

This is where we say: transit and other ways to get around without a car, plus land use to enable it. And then you say: no, roads for cars.

Most of us just want to get to where we need to go. The problem is that suburbs were largely built around car transportation. Expanding public transport to serve all neighborhoods in a way that is efficient enough to meaningfully reduce the number of cars on the road would be very expensive. I metro to work, but I end up driving to the station because I need to drop one kid at daycare and the other at before care and its all too far apart to walk. DH does not have a logical public transport option to work (would involve a long metro ride on two lines and an infrequent bus). But his commute around the beltway takes longer and longer in the afternoon and there's no solution in sight.

The most "walkable" communities are often the most expensive, which is another reason why people end up living further and further out.

Yes, one of the reasons why they say expanding highways doesn't work is because if they widen the roads , then more people will use it by moving further out. Well,yea, they move further out because they can't afford close in. They say widening the roads just encourages people to move further out, but then the same people would complain that we don't have enough affordable housing, not enough room for green space, etc...

It's like you want your cake and eat it, too.

Public transit is super slow; you're in a tube with strangers (and their germs). I get motion sickness in buses and trains. Some people have daycare situations that doesn't work with public transport. There are many reasons why the kind of public transport we have doesn't work for people.

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, one of the reasons why they say expanding highways doesn't work is because if they widen the roads , then more people will use it by moving further out. Well,yea, they move further out because they can't afford close in. They say widening the roads just encourages people to move further out, but then the same people would complain that we don't have enough affordable housing, not enough room for green space, etc...

It's like you want your cake and eat it, too.

Public transit is super slow; you're in a tube with strangers (and their germs). I get motion sickness in buses and trains. Some people have daycare situations that doesn't work with public transport. There are many reasons why the kind of public transport we have doesn't work for people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so sad to see otherwise smart people be so dumb about planning and transportation.

I remember when 270 was 2 lanes in each direction. For 45 years, the county has expanded the number of lanes, the local lanes, the X crossover exchanges, and yet, we still have a lot of bumper to bumper car traffic with corresponding dirty air and health impacts.

Time to do something else, what has been happening since the 1970's clearly isn't working.

Ah, but part of that is due to the bottleneck when the lanes go back down to 2 past Germantown.

What "something else" do you propose? Just let it keep getting worse until the highways around here are as bad as I-95 in CT?

This is where we say: transit and other ways to get around without a car, plus land use to enable it. And then you say: no, roads for cars.

Most of us just want to get to where we need to go. The problem is that suburbs were largely built around car transportation. Expanding public transport to serve all neighborhoods in a way that is efficient enough to meaningfully reduce the number of cars on the road would be very expensive. I metro to work, but I end up driving to the station because I need to drop one kid at daycare and the other at before care and its all too far apart to walk. DH does not have a logical public transport option to work (would involve a long metro ride on two lines and an infrequent bus). But his commute around the beltway takes longer and longer in the afternoon and there's no solution in sight.

The most "walkable" communities are often the most expensive, which is another reason why people end up living further and further out.

The most walkable communities are often the most expensive, because demand for walkable communities way exceeds supply. The solution is to increase the supply of walkable communities, by making more communities more walkable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so sad to see otherwise smart people be so dumb about planning and transportation.

I remember when 270 was 2 lanes in each direction. For 45 years, the county has expanded the number of lanes, the local lanes, the X crossover exchanges, and yet, we still have a lot of bumper to bumper car traffic with corresponding dirty air and health impacts.

Time to do something else, what has been happening since the 1970's clearly isn't working.

Ah, but part of that is due to the bottleneck when the lanes go back down to 2 past Germantown.

What "something else" do you propose? Just let it keep getting worse until the highways around here are as bad as I-95 in CT?

This is where we say: transit and other ways to get around without a car, plus land use to enable it. And then you say: no, roads for cars.

Most of us just want to get to where we need to go. The problem is that suburbs were largely built around car transportation. Expanding public transport to serve all neighborhoods in a way that is efficient enough to meaningfully reduce the number of cars on the road would be very expensive. I metro to work, but I end up driving to the station because I need to drop one kid at daycare and the other at before care and its all too far apart to walk. DH does not have a logical public transport option to work (would involve a long metro ride on two lines and an infrequent bus). But his commute around the beltway takes longer and longer in the afternoon and there's no solution in sight.

The most "walkable" communities are often the most expensive, which is another reason why people end up living further and further out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is so sad to see otherwise smart people be so dumb about planning and transportation.

I remember when 270 was 2 lanes in each direction. For 45 years, the county has expanded the number of lanes, the local lanes, the X crossover exchanges, and yet, we still have a lot of bumper to bumper car traffic with corresponding dirty air and health impacts.

Time to do something else, what has been happening since the 1970's clearly isn't working.

Ah, but part of that is due to the bottleneck when the lanes go back down to 2 past Germantown.

What "something else" do you propose? Just let it keep getting worse until the highways around here are as bad as I-95 in CT?

This is where we say: transit and other ways to get around without a car, plus land use to enable it. And then you say: no, roads for cars.

Most of us just want to get to where we need to go. The problem is that suburbs were largely built around car transportation. Expanding public transport to serve all neighborhoods in a way that is efficient enough to meaningfully reduce the number of cars on the road would be very expensive. I metro to work, but I end up driving to the station because I need to drop one kid at daycare and the other at before care and its all too far apart to walk. DH does not have a logical public transport option to work (would involve a long metro ride on two lines and an infrequent bus). But his commute around the beltway takes longer and longer in the afternoon and there's no solution in sight.

The most "walkable" communities are often the most expensive, which is another reason why people end up living further and further out.