Anonymous wrote:Simmer down, folks. None of us are responsible for where we were born/grew up.

The folks spewing hate on dcum are sure responsible for their actions here.

I am a Serb whose best friend is Croatian. I am her best friend too.
We have been best friends since 1999.
Never stopped, never blamed, never were anything but friends.
My mom is now vacationing in Croatia. They are all very nice and polite to her. We have vacationed in Croatia for years after the wars. Croats party in Belgrad all the time.
Hate is never the answer.

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Anonymous wrote:I too have started to distance myself from a few Russian friends I have known 10+ years. I'm not rude, and it's not personal, but I just cut off communication and don't want them in my life any more based on what I've seen and heard from Ukraine. If one of them were to constantly protest against Putin very publicly, or join a very public resistance movement, then it would be a different story.

For better or for worse, sometimes people bear the shame of the actions of their leaders.

Are these Russian-Americans? I very much hope you aren’t indiscriminately distancing yourself from everyone with Russian heritage.

These are people who identify more with Russia than the US, whether by birth or extended family ties. It may not be fair in every case but Putin drew the battle lines and forced us all to pick sides. Every time I see or hear a Russian now the photos of dead Ukrainian children flash before my eyes.

As others have said there will doubtless be Russian heroes who are part of the resistance, but for any Russians who don't make resistance to Putin their #1 priority from now until he is dead, they are not welcome around me or my family.

Did you distance yourself from Americans when they invaded Iraq?

This. The folks on this forum are looney 😂. Next time the US invades a country of brown people let’s see if you cut yourself off and shame yourself.

*cue me being called a traitor and a Russian apologist for telling it how it is

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Anonymous wrote:I too have started to distance myself from a few Russian friends I have known 10+ years. I'm not rude, and it's not personal, but I just cut off communication and don't want them in my life any more based on what I've seen and heard from Ukraine. If one of them were to constantly protest against Putin very publicly, or join a very public resistance movement, then it would be a different story.

For better or for worse, sometimes people bear the shame of the actions of their leaders.

Are these Russian-Americans? I very much hope you aren’t indiscriminately distancing yourself from everyone with Russian heritage.

These are people who identify more with Russia than the US, whether by birth or extended family ties. It may not be fair in every case but Putin drew the battle lines and forced us all to pick sides. Every time I see or hear a Russian now the photos of dead Ukrainian children flash before my eyes.

As others have said there will doubtless be Russian heroes who are part of the resistance, but for any Russians who don't make resistance to Putin their #1 priority from now until he is dead, they are not welcome around me or my family.

Did you distance yourself from Americans when they invaded Iraq?

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Anonymous wrote:I too have started to distance myself from a few Russian friends I have known 10+ years. I'm not rude, and it's not personal, but I just cut off communication and don't want them in my life any more based on what I've seen and heard from Ukraine. If one of them were to constantly protest against Putin very publicly, or join a very public resistance movement, then it would be a different story.

For better or for worse, sometimes people bear the shame of the actions of their leaders.

Are these Russian-Americans? I very much hope you aren’t indiscriminately distancing yourself from everyone with Russian heritage.

These are people who identify more with Russia than the US, whether by birth or extended family ties. It may not be fair in every case but Putin drew the battle lines and forced us all to pick sides. Every time I see or hear a Russian now the photos of dead Ukrainian children flash before my eyes.

As others have said there will doubtless be Russian heroes who are part of the resistance, but for any Russians who don't make resistance to Putin their #1 priority from now until he is dead, they are not welcome around me or my family.

How do you know they identify more with Russia than the US? Also, how are Russians who don’t live in Russia supposed to make resistance to Putin their #1 priority for the rest of Putin’s life, which could be another 20 years?

The answer to the first question is - I make my best judgment. Not perfect. Not fair. But again, that's the situation we are in.

To answer the second question - vocal, unequivocal, constant condemnation of Putin. Reach out to family members in Russia and try to send them facts. Raise money to support Ukraine. Renounce Russian citizenship and claim asylum in the US. And do it all very publicly. That may be too much "real talk" for you but that's the situation. If you don't realize it yet, you will soon. My opinion is shared by most of the family and friends I've spoken with the last week.

The situation we’re in is that we all should be judging whether Russian-Americans are loyal to Russia or the US?

They need to publicly renounce Russian citizenship? What if they need it in order to visit sick family members in Russia? It is not easy to get a visa to is it Russia.

And please don’t lecture me on what’s real or not. I am Russian and Ukrainian. I know this situation all too well — unlike you, who have decided to insert yourself into this situation.

Ask yourself, with the benefit of hindsight: if you were a German in Hitler's Germany when war broke out, what should you have done? Because it's the same story starting all over again. Putin is an existential threat to every life on the planet.

I'd imagine Hitler protestors were sent to death camps. It took a world war to stop Hitler. Like, U.S. soldiers fighting in Europe.

First, Germany had THE best army in the world at the time. Secondly, most Germans supported Hitler, blindly and to the death, which is why the army was so successful and it took a huge coalition and millions of lives lost to defeat them.

No one can do what Hitler did or what Putin does without implicit support by a large portion of the population.

Anonymous wrote:I blocked a Russian on FB way before this. Ever since Maria Butina, I feel like I don’t know what I don’t know. I’d rather not be friends with a Russian just in case.

In case of what? In case she accused you justly of being a bigot?

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The U.S. has done this exact thing to most of the world. It does it today to all but a few Western Europeans.

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Anonymous wrote:and she is no longer talking to me. I am anti-Putin, I support humanitarian efforts. She was my friend for 20 years and now she blocked me, told her children not talk to mine. What can I do? What should I do? I am devastated and so are my children.

Are you clearly opposed to the war? One thing we have encountered with Russian friends is that they take an equivocal position regarding the war in which they place some blame on the Ukrainians (or NATO, etc). I can imagine Ukrainians not having a lot of patience with both-sidesing the war right now.

I place absolutely no blame on the Ukrainians. This is their land that is being raped. I do not support Russian position and if anything, I have called for a no fly zone over Ukraine.

It is not enough as a Russian to “call for” something and say you are opposed. What concretely are you doing? you and your family, including your kids? Are you raising money? Are you attending protests? Are you writing your rep and asking for support for a no fly zone? Have you asked how you can support, concretely, your friends family? Do they have relatives still in Ukraine? What concrete help have you offered to get them out or provide them with supies or contacts?

If you are just talk and no action, your friend sees that as a betrayal.

GTFOH. It’s rich to read this from an American. You think there isn’t blood on your hands because your country controls the narrative and dominates the world?

Seriously. People who have just started thinking about Russia and Ukraine in late February need to just stay out of this.

The unmitigated gall of Americans has me wishing they would start a war with Russia and get their comeuppance finally. That madman in Moscow will absolutely go nuclear, pun intended. It’s intolerable listening to Americans preen and bump their gums as if they’re not the world‘s most harmful and destructive villains. Africa says hello, you twits.

Indeed! Bravo for saying it so eloquently! And not just Africa, Asia, the Middle East, Serbs, Albanians whom they were "rescuing" by bombing my Albanian cousins!
Even when they think they are doing "good" they cause more harm than they can imagine! Free shirts for all... no jobs for any shirt makers that were providing perfectly fine shirts and jobs for thousands!

Why are Americans on dcum so angry at regular Russian people?
I ask honestly? There is hate dripping here that could not hate just started.

Anonymous wrote:I’ve cut off the two Russians I was friendly with.


This is personal. Every single Russian needs to punished for this, not just Putin and the oligarchs.

Are you Ukrainian? How do you want to punish every single Russian?

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Anonymous wrote:and she is no longer talking to me. I am anti-Putin, I support humanitarian efforts. She was my friend for 20 years and now she blocked me, told her children not talk to mine. What can I do? What should I do? I am devastated and so are my children.

Your former friend is a petty soul who is displacing her feelings of powerlessness and anger onto you, an easy target. She’s not a good person. I am an African who lives abroad because white people raped and destroyed my country for hundreds of years, murdered our democratically elected president and installed a dictator after we fought for independence, and then killed some more. White people, especially America and France, continue to harm my country and to make it impossible for my family back home to live decent lives. I can speak to the pain of fleeing home in terror and never being able to go back. It hurts sometimes to see the prosperity and arrogance of people whose way of life is built on stealing from countries like mine. But I still don’t take it out on individuals. Your former friend isn’t a good person and you can’t trust her again.

It’s hilarious to see Americans posting in this thread as if they have any leg to stand on. May you all live to enjoy your just desserts.

NP. I wish you were my friend.

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Anonymous wrote:I too have started to distance myself from a few Russian friends I have known 10+ years. I'm not rude, and it's not personal, but I just cut off communication and don't want them in my life any more based on what I've seen and heard from Ukraine. If one of them were to constantly protest against Putin very publicly, or join a very public resistance movement, then it would be a different story.

For better or for worse, sometimes people bear the shame of the actions of their leaders.

Are these Russian-Americans? I very much hope you aren’t indiscriminately distancing yourself from everyone with Russian heritage.

These are people who identify more with Russia than the US, whether by birth or extended family ties. It may not be fair in every case but Putin drew the battle lines and forced us all to pick sides. Every time I see or hear a Russian now the photos of dead Ukrainian children flash before my eyes.

As others have said there will doubtless be Russian heroes who are part of the resistance, but for any Russians who don't make resistance to Putin their #1 priority from now until he is dead, they are not welcome around me or my family.

How do you know they identify more with Russia than the US? Also, how are Russians who don’t live in Russia supposed to make resistance to Putin their #1 priority for the rest of Putin’s life, which could be another 20 years?

The answer to the first question is - I make my best judgment. Not perfect. Not fair. But again, that's the situation we are in.

To answer the second question - vocal, unequivocal, constant condemnation of Putin. Reach out to family members in Russia and try to send them facts. Raise money to support Ukraine. Renounce Russian citizenship and claim asylum in the US. And do it all very publicly. That may be too much "real talk" for you but that's the situation. If you don't realize it yet, you will soon. My opinion is shared by most of the family and friends I've spoken with the last week.

The situation we’re in is that we all should be judging whether Russian-Americans are loyal to Russia or the US?

They need to publicly renounce Russian citizenship? What if they need it in order to visit sick family members in Russia? It is not easy to get a visa to is it Russia.

And please don’t lecture me on what’s real or not. I am Russian and Ukrainian. I know this situation all too well — unlike you, who have decided to insert yourself into this situation.

Ask yourself, with the benefit of hindsight: if you were a German in Hitler's Germany when war broke out, what should you have done? Because it's the same story starting all over again. Putin is an existential threat to every life on the planet.

I'd imagine Hitler protestors were sent to death camps. It took a world war to stop Hitler. Like, U.S. soldiers fighting in Europe.

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Anonymous wrote:^they aren't really delusional. Deep down they know. They just want to ignore it, keep their heads in the ground and hope that the problem "goes away", and they can get their McDs again soon. Not too dissimilar to the Germans who ignored the atrocities committed against their Jewish neighbors.

And how many Russians do you know?

What do you think of the embedded Ostland tweet that you skipped past? How many threads do you need to accept that this appears to be a “special operation” supported by more than an insignificant portion of the Russian population? The negative perception of Russians is killing you but how are you so naive to effectively insist it comes from nowhere and that only professors of the former Soviet bloc or who speak Russian can comment? You do you, I guess.

I never said any of that. I just asked you a question.

I’m not PP so you didn’t ask me a damned thing. And it’s beyond evident that conversation is not what you’re interested in. You want to do some idiotic wannabe gotcha bullshit - oh did you not go to HS with a bunch of Russians and Ukrainians and Lithuanians and Moldovan? No? Then you can’t comment! Whatever, sweetie. This will be fun, to have you repeatedly post over the next couple of years why it’s unfair to hold another soul accountable for the carnage other than Putin. I’m virulently anti war and opposed the Iraq debacle publicly from the start, and I still understand that as an American, atrocities have been executed around the world in my and in the name of my family despite this opposition. It is what it is.

They have been but you and your family did not suffer for it in any way. Your Visa card kept working.

Their economy is not fully frozen at all, so cool your tits and watch the video upthread where interviewees discuss the impact of sanctions.

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Anonymous wrote:I too have started to distance myself from a few Russian friends I have known 10+ years. I'm not rude, and it's not personal, but I just cut off communication and don't want them in my life any more based on what I've seen and heard from Ukraine. If one of them were to constantly protest against Putin very publicly, or join a very public resistance movement, then it would be a different story.

For better or for worse, sometimes people bear the shame of the actions of their leaders.

Are these Russian-Americans? I very much hope you aren’t indiscriminately distancing yourself from everyone with Russian heritage.

Why do you care so much? We all have our own ways of coping, and PP isn't hurting anyone by distancing herself from them.

Because it’s an instance of indiscriminate hatred.

Maybe this whole thread is part of a Russian effort to get Americans to hurt regular Russians, so it can justify nuking us.

If so: That’s nasty.

On the other hand:

- Of course we should be polite to Russians and treat them based on tough, civil liberties-guarding laws, even if they love Putin and have Putin tattoos on their bosoms. I donate to the ACLU every month partly so it will stop us if we get really mad at Russia and start wanting to take it out on Russians.

- Some hard-to-define group of able-bodied adults Russians does have sn influence over the Russian government, and members of that group do share responsibility for Russia’s actions, even if they’ve risked their lives to oppose those bad actions. Navalny is a little bit responsible for all of this. Just all of us U.S. voters are a little responsible for Abu Ghraib. Maybe Russians who’ve left Russia should be freed from that kind of social contract responsibility, but it’s hard for other people to verify whether some like that does or does not have hidden loyalty to Russia.

- Obviously, we shouldn’t let the government persecute U.S. residents and citizens who are from Russia because it’s possible that they might support Putin. Ordinary non-Russian people shouldn’t be harassing polite, law-abiding Russians, even if those Russians wear Z t-shirts. But we ordinary people are emotional, flawed creatures ourselves. If people from Ukraine watch Russia starving the people of Mariupol to death, and that makes it hard for some of them to have playdates with Russian families, or to go on vacations with Russian families, then I think it’s wrong for others to pass judgment on those Ukrainians. We have a right to expect Ukrainians who are to obey the law. We don’t have a right to expect them to socialize with Russians at such a painful time.

https://www.rferl.org/a/how-to-guide-russian-trolling-trolls/26919999.html

An interview with a former Russian troll. In it he describes what their job entails and what their m.o. is. I suggest people read it. You might notice some similarities.