Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the status of the emergency stay?

It’s awaiting rejection from Judge Hilton before it travels up to the 4th Circuit, where it will almost certainly be granted in the interest of the 2500 out of the initial nearly 3000 who are still eligible to be selected. It goes without saying that those families deserve to be able to make plans through a regular release of decisions in early spring.

Everyone deserves to make plans. That's why a racist lottery is cruel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the status of the emergency stay?

It’s awaiting rejection from Judge Hilton before it travels up to the 4th Circuit, where it will almost certainly be granted in the interest of the 2500 out of the initial nearly 3000 who are still eligible to be selected. It goes without saying that those families deserve to be able to make plans through a regular release of decisions in early spring.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two things that should have been the focus of a reform discussion instead of race

1) remove the Math acceleration admissions bump - for prior years, almost 90% of the applicants who were in Algebra II or higher were admitted. Less than 20% of the applicants in geometry were admitted and less than 10% of the applicants in Algebra I were admitted. Families knew that if they could get their child into Algebra II by 8th grade, TJ was close to a lock.

This is something that I think MANY won’t agree with, but it needs to be said. At least in the schools have I have worked at in FCPS, the only way that a child, even a gifted child, is in Algebra II in 8th grade is that their parents have either 1) paid for them to take the FCPS summer geometry class or 2) driven them to/from the local middle school to take Algebra I in 6th grade. Both of these cost money and while it might not be a lot to most families, it’s not insignificant for many. It should not defacto cost money to attend TJ. Period.

2 - Prep is clearly happening for many/most applicants. It’s an interesting question as to if this makes stronger students? The Admissions office has the names of the kids that prepped at Curie from the FB posts. How have those kids done at TJ? Have their admissions test scores tracked with their grades? If so, that should inform how we think about prep and if we should actually expand access to prep programs. If prep, however, is actually artificial and *doesn’t* translate to higher grades etc, than it’s just an arms race and might be harming children. The old TJ admissions process WAS rewarding and in some manner and they should be responsible for answering questions such as the above before a test is re-instated.

Solution was simple. Make the test better - non-standard but an actual test that determines how prepared the kid may be for success at TJ. Removing math acceleration bump is not a bad idea. However, the board - which was not representative of the student body - was unfortunately just focused on reducing asians. they couldn't take a risk that new process doesn't reduce asians. Wrong approach.

Genuine question - what would that test look like? And if it had the impact of increasing the Black and Hispanic population at TJ - which would necessarily reduce the Asian population in spite of that not being the end goal - don't you think you'd see the same crowing? And don't you think you'd still see a huge industry dedicated to solving the "unpreppable exam"?

I mean, this is what happened when the "unpreppable" Quant-Q came in for the Class of 2022 that is graduating this year. Immediately the Asian population reduced from 74.9% in 2021 to 65.2% in 2022 and Hispanic enrollment skyrocketed, before things normalized the next couple of years back to 72 and 73%. A new exam is a temporary solution to the problem of Black and Hispanic underenrollment - which is a separate issue from the numbers of Asians.

Your approach is clear from your post - we can't risk a test. Wrong approach. YOU are underestimating black and Hispanic kids. if you want a real solution start at the beginning, not at the end.

Not underestimating them. Just acknowledging the industry-wide best practice that standardized exams are a confounding variable when it comes to selecting for merit and citing the evidence that is directly applicable to the TJ community to back up my assertion.

There is no way to make up for the enormous gap in resources between the two communities. We prefer an approach that levels the playing field not only for Black and Hispanic students, but also for Asian students from lower-income families who have seen major representation issues themselves in the last 10-12 years.

Why is there a need to make up for the enormous gap, or any gap? People make different decisions, these different decisions lead to differences in access to opportunities - which is what you refer to as the enormous gap. So long as you allow people to make free choices, there will be such gaps.

This is called "victim blaming". Sure, people make different decisions, but those decisions are made in the context of their unique circumstances.

ALL decisions are made in the context of unique circumstances. That's how you were born.

Did you have a point?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the status of the emergency stay?

It’s awaiting rejection from Judge Hilton before it travels up to the 4th Circuit, where it will almost certainly be granted in the interest of the 2500 out of the initial nearly 3000 who are still eligible to be selected. It goes without saying that those families deserve to be able to make plans through a regular release of decisions in early spring.

No one deserves anything. Admissions is not an entitlement. The current batch of students were admitted under a racist policy. The admissions must be redone.

And the last batch of students was admitted under even worse racist policies.

File a lawsuit and get that old "racist" policy changed.

Good luck proving in court that testing for problem-solving skills is racist.

There's a lot more evidence for "disparate impact" there than there is in a holistic process that resulted in a spread of offers that largely mirrored the applicant pool. It only survived for so long because it was the status quo.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two things that should have been the focus of a reform discussion instead of race

1) remove the Math acceleration admissions bump - for prior years, almost 90% of the applicants who were in Algebra II or higher were admitted. Less than 20% of the applicants in geometry were admitted and less than 10% of the applicants in Algebra I were admitted. Families knew that if they could get their child into Algebra II by 8th grade, TJ was close to a lock.

This is something that I think MANY won’t agree with, but it needs to be said. At least in the schools have I have worked at in FCPS, the only way that a child, even a gifted child, is in Algebra II in 8th grade is that their parents have either 1) paid for them to take the FCPS summer geometry class or 2) driven them to/from the local middle school to take Algebra I in 6th grade. Both of these cost money and while it might not be a lot to most families, it’s not insignificant for many. It should not defacto cost money to attend TJ. Period.

2 - Prep is clearly happening for many/most applicants. It’s an interesting question as to if this makes stronger students? The Admissions office has the names of the kids that prepped at Curie from the FB posts. How have those kids done at TJ? Have their admissions test scores tracked with their grades? If so, that should inform how we think about prep and if we should actually expand access to prep programs. If prep, however, is actually artificial and *doesn’t* translate to higher grades etc, than it’s just an arms race and might be harming children. The old TJ admissions process WAS rewarding and in some manner and they should be responsible for answering questions such as the above before a test is re-instated.

Solution was simple. Make the test better - non-standard but an actual test that determines how prepared the kid may be for success at TJ. Removing math acceleration bump is not a bad idea. However, the board - which was not representative of the student body - was unfortunately just focused on reducing asians. they couldn't take a risk that new process doesn't reduce asians. Wrong approach.

Genuine question - what would that test look like? And if it had the impact of increasing the Black and Hispanic population at TJ - which would necessarily reduce the Asian population in spite of that not being the end goal - don't you think you'd see the same crowing? And don't you think you'd still see a huge industry dedicated to solving the "unpreppable exam"?

I mean, this is what happened when the "unpreppable" Quant-Q came in for the Class of 2022 that is graduating this year. Immediately the Asian population reduced from 74.9% in 2021 to 65.2% in 2022 and Hispanic enrollment skyrocketed, before things normalized the next couple of years back to 72 and 73%. A new exam is a temporary solution to the problem of Black and Hispanic underenrollment - which is a separate issue from the numbers of Asians.

Your approach is clear from your post - we can't risk a test. Wrong approach. YOU are underestimating black and Hispanic kids. if you want a real solution start at the beginning, not at the end.

Not underestimating them. Just acknowledging the industry-wide best practice that standardized exams are a confounding variable when it comes to selecting for merit and citing the evidence that is directly applicable to the TJ community to back up my assertion.

There is no way to make up for the enormous gap in resources between the two communities. We prefer an approach that levels the playing field not only for Black and Hispanic students, but also for Asian students from lower-income families who have seen major representation issues themselves in the last 10-12 years.

Why is there a need to make up for the enormous gap, or any gap? People make different decisions, these different decisions lead to differences in access to opportunities - which is what you refer to as the enormous gap. So long as you allow people to make free choices, there will be such gaps.

This is called "victim blaming". Sure, people make different decisions, but those decisions are made in the context of their unique circumstances.

ALL decisions are made in the context of unique circumstances. That's how you were born.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two things that should have been the focus of a reform discussion instead of race

1) remove the Math acceleration admissions bump - for prior years, almost 90% of the applicants who were in Algebra II or higher were admitted. Less than 20% of the applicants in geometry were admitted and less than 10% of the applicants in Algebra I were admitted. Families knew that if they could get their child into Algebra II by 8th grade, TJ was close to a lock.

This is something that I think MANY won’t agree with, but it needs to be said. At least in the schools have I have worked at in FCPS, the only way that a child, even a gifted child, is in Algebra II in 8th grade is that their parents have either 1) paid for them to take the FCPS summer geometry class or 2) driven them to/from the local middle school to take Algebra I in 6th grade. Both of these cost money and while it might not be a lot to most families, it’s not insignificant for many. It should not defacto cost money to attend TJ. Period.

2 - Prep is clearly happening for many/most applicants. It’s an interesting question as to if this makes stronger students? The Admissions office has the names of the kids that prepped at Curie from the FB posts. How have those kids done at TJ? Have their admissions test scores tracked with their grades? If so, that should inform how we think about prep and if we should actually expand access to prep programs. If prep, however, is actually artificial and *doesn’t* translate to higher grades etc, than it’s just an arms race and might be harming children. The old TJ admissions process WAS rewarding and in some manner and they should be responsible for answering questions such as the above before a test is re-instated.

Solution was simple. Make the test better - non-standard but an actual test that determines how prepared the kid may be for success at TJ. Removing math acceleration bump is not a bad idea. However, the board - which was not representative of the student body - was unfortunately just focused on reducing asians. they couldn't take a risk that new process doesn't reduce asians. Wrong approach.

Genuine question - what would that test look like? And if it had the impact of increasing the Black and Hispanic population at TJ - which would necessarily reduce the Asian population in spite of that not being the end goal - don't you think you'd see the same crowing? And don't you think you'd still see a huge industry dedicated to solving the "unpreppable exam"?

I mean, this is what happened when the "unpreppable" Quant-Q came in for the Class of 2022 that is graduating this year. Immediately the Asian population reduced from 74.9% in 2021 to 65.2% in 2022 and Hispanic enrollment skyrocketed, before things normalized the next couple of years back to 72 and 73%. A new exam is a temporary solution to the problem of Black and Hispanic underenrollment - which is a separate issue from the numbers of Asians.

Your approach is clear from your post - we can't risk a test. Wrong approach. YOU are underestimating black and Hispanic kids. if you want a real solution start at the beginning, not at the end.

Not underestimating them. Just acknowledging the industry-wide best practice that standardized exams are a confounding variable when it comes to selecting for merit and citing the evidence that is directly applicable to the TJ community to back up my assertion.

There is no way to make up for the enormous gap in resources between the two communities. We prefer an approach that levels the playing field not only for Black and Hispanic students, but also for Asian students from lower-income families who have seen major representation issues themselves in the last 10-12 years.

Why is there a need to make up for the enormous gap, or any gap? People make different decisions, these different decisions lead to differences in access to opportunities - which is what you refer to as the enormous gap. So long as you allow people to make free choices, there will be such gaps.

This is called "victim blaming". Sure, people make different decisions, but those decisions are made in the context of their unique circumstances.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the status of the emergency stay?

It’s awaiting rejection from Judge Hilton before it travels up to the 4th Circuit, where it will almost certainly be granted in the interest of the 2500 out of the initial nearly 3000 who are still eligible to be selected. It goes without saying that those families deserve to be able to make plans through a regular release of decisions in early spring.

No one deserves anything. Admissions is not an entitlement. The current batch of students were admitted under a racist policy. The admissions must be redone.

And the last batch of students was admitted under even worse racist policies.

File a lawsuit and get that old "racist" policy changed.

Good luck proving in court that testing for problem-solving skills is racist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two things that should have been the focus of a reform discussion instead of race

1) remove the Math acceleration admissions bump - for prior years, almost 90% of the applicants who were in Algebra II or higher were admitted. Less than 20% of the applicants in geometry were admitted and less than 10% of the applicants in Algebra I were admitted. Families knew that if they could get their child into Algebra II by 8th grade, TJ was close to a lock.

This is something that I think MANY won’t agree with, but it needs to be said. At least in the schools have I have worked at in FCPS, the only way that a child, even a gifted child, is in Algebra II in 8th grade is that their parents have either 1) paid for them to take the FCPS summer geometry class or 2) driven them to/from the local middle school to take Algebra I in 6th grade. Both of these cost money and while it might not be a lot to most families, it’s not insignificant for many. It should not defacto cost money to attend TJ. Period.

2 - Prep is clearly happening for many/most applicants. It’s an interesting question as to if this makes stronger students? The Admissions office has the names of the kids that prepped at Curie from the FB posts. How have those kids done at TJ? Have their admissions test scores tracked with their grades? If so, that should inform how we think about prep and if we should actually expand access to prep programs. If prep, however, is actually artificial and *doesn’t* translate to higher grades etc, than it’s just an arms race and might be harming children. The old TJ admissions process WAS rewarding and in some manner and they should be responsible for answering questions such as the above before a test is re-instated.

Solution was simple. Make the test better - non-standard but an actual test that determines how prepared the kid may be for success at TJ. Removing math acceleration bump is not a bad idea. However, the board - which was not representative of the student body - was unfortunately just focused on reducing asians. they couldn't take a risk that new process doesn't reduce asians. Wrong approach.

Genuine question - what would that test look like? And if it had the impact of increasing the Black and Hispanic population at TJ - which would necessarily reduce the Asian population in spite of that not being the end goal - don't you think you'd see the same crowing? And don't you think you'd still see a huge industry dedicated to solving the "unpreppable exam"?

I mean, this is what happened when the "unpreppable" Quant-Q came in for the Class of 2022 that is graduating this year. Immediately the Asian population reduced from 74.9% in 2021 to 65.2% in 2022 and Hispanic enrollment skyrocketed, before things normalized the next couple of years back to 72 and 73%. A new exam is a temporary solution to the problem of Black and Hispanic underenrollment - which is a separate issue from the numbers of Asians.

Your approach is clear from your post - we can't risk a test. Wrong approach. YOU are underestimating black and Hispanic kids. if you want a real solution start at the beginning, not at the end.

Not underestimating them. Just acknowledging the industry-wide best practice that standardized exams are a confounding variable when it comes to selecting for merit and citing the evidence that is directly applicable to the TJ community to back up my assertion.

There is no way to make up for the enormous gap in resources between the two communities. We prefer an approach that levels the playing field not only for Black and Hispanic students, but also for Asian students from lower-income families who have seen major representation issues themselves in the last 10-12 years.

Why is there a need to make up for the enormous gap, or any gap? People make different decisions, these different decisions lead to differences in access to opportunities - which is what you refer to as the enormous gap. So long as you allow people to make free choices, there will be such gaps.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two things that should have been the focus of a reform discussion instead of race

1) remove the Math acceleration admissions bump - for prior years, almost 90% of the applicants who were in Algebra II or higher were admitted. Less than 20% of the applicants in geometry were admitted and less than 10% of the applicants in Algebra I were admitted. Families knew that if they could get their child into Algebra II by 8th grade, TJ was close to a lock.

This is something that I think MANY won’t agree with, but it needs to be said. At least in the schools have I have worked at in FCPS, the only way that a child, even a gifted child, is in Algebra II in 8th grade is that their parents have either 1) paid for them to take the FCPS summer geometry class or 2) driven them to/from the local middle school to take Algebra I in 6th grade. Both of these cost money and while it might not be a lot to most families, it’s not insignificant for many. It should not defacto cost money to attend TJ. Period.

2 - Prep is clearly happening for many/most applicants. It’s an interesting question as to if this makes stronger students? The Admissions office has the names of the kids that prepped at Curie from the FB posts. How have those kids done at TJ? Have their admissions test scores tracked with their grades? If so, that should inform how we think about prep and if we should actually expand access to prep programs. If prep, however, is actually artificial and *doesn’t* translate to higher grades etc, than it’s just an arms race and might be harming children. The old TJ admissions process WAS rewarding and in some manner and they should be responsible for answering questions such as the above before a test is re-instated.

Solution was simple. Make the test better - non-standard but an actual test that determines how prepared the kid may be for success at TJ. Removing math acceleration bump is not a bad idea. However, the board - which was not representative of the student body - was unfortunately just focused on reducing asians. they couldn't take a risk that new process doesn't reduce asians. Wrong approach.

Genuine question - what would that test look like? And if it had the impact of increasing the Black and Hispanic population at TJ - which would necessarily reduce the Asian population in spite of that not being the end goal - don't you think you'd see the same crowing? And don't you think you'd still see a huge industry dedicated to solving the "unpreppable exam"?

I mean, this is what happened when the "unpreppable" Quant-Q came in for the Class of 2022 that is graduating this year. Immediately the Asian population reduced from 74.9% in 2021 to 65.2% in 2022 and Hispanic enrollment skyrocketed, before things normalized the next couple of years back to 72 and 73%. A new exam is a temporary solution to the problem of Black and Hispanic underenrollment - which is a separate issue from the numbers of Asians.

Your approach is clear from your post - we can't risk a test. Wrong approach. YOU are underestimating black and Hispanic kids. if you want a real solution start at the beginning, not at the end.

Not underestimating them. Just acknowledging the industry-wide best practice that standardized exams are a confounding variable when it comes to selecting for merit and citing the evidence that is directly applicable to the TJ community to back up my assertion.

There is no way to make up for the enormous gap in resources between the two communities. We prefer an approach that levels the playing field not only for Black and Hispanic students, but also for Asian students from lower-income families who have seen major representation issues themselves in the last 10-12 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the status of the emergency stay?

It’s awaiting rejection from Judge Hilton before it travels up to the 4th Circuit, where it will almost certainly be granted in the interest of the 2500 out of the initial nearly 3000 who are still eligible to be selected. It goes without saying that those families deserve to be able to make plans through a regular release of decisions in early spring.

No one deserves anything. Admissions is not an entitlement. The current batch of students were admitted under a racist policy. The admissions must be redone.

And the last batch of students was admitted under even worse racist policies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the status of the emergency stay?

It’s awaiting rejection from Judge Hilton before it travels up to the 4th Circuit, where it will almost certainly be granted in the interest of the 2500 out of the initial nearly 3000 who are still eligible to be selected. It goes without saying that those families deserve to be able to make plans through a regular release of decisions in early spring.

No one deserves anything. Admissions is not an entitlement. The current batch of students were admitted under a racist policy. The admissions must be redone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two things that should have been the focus of a reform discussion instead of race

1) remove the Math acceleration admissions bump - for prior years, almost 90% of the applicants who were in Algebra II or higher were admitted. Less than 20% of the applicants in geometry were admitted and less than 10% of the applicants in Algebra I were admitted. Families knew that if they could get their child into Algebra II by 8th grade, TJ was close to a lock.

This is something that I think MANY won’t agree with, but it needs to be said. At least in the schools have I have worked at in FCPS, the only way that a child, even a gifted child, is in Algebra II in 8th grade is that their parents have either 1) paid for them to take the FCPS summer geometry class or 2) driven them to/from the local middle school to take Algebra I in 6th grade. Both of these cost money and while it might not be a lot to most families, it’s not insignificant for many. It should not defacto cost money to attend TJ. Period.

2 - Prep is clearly happening for many/most applicants. It’s an interesting question as to if this makes stronger students? The Admissions office has the names of the kids that prepped at Curie from the FB posts. How have those kids done at TJ? Have their admissions test scores tracked with their grades? If so, that should inform how we think about prep and if we should actually expand access to prep programs. If prep, however, is actually artificial and *doesn’t* translate to higher grades etc, than it’s just an arms race and might be harming children. The old TJ admissions process WAS rewarding and in some manner and they should be responsible for answering questions such as the above before a test is re-instated.

Solution was simple. Make the test better - non-standard but an actual test that determines how prepared the kid may be for success at TJ. Removing math acceleration bump is not a bad idea. However, the board - which was not representative of the student body - was unfortunately just focused on reducing asians. they couldn't take a risk that new process doesn't reduce asians. Wrong approach.

Genuine question - what would that test look like? And if it had the impact of increasing the Black and Hispanic population at TJ - which would necessarily reduce the Asian population in spite of that not being the end goal - don't you think you'd see the same crowing? And don't you think you'd still see a huge industry dedicated to solving the "unpreppable exam"?

I mean, this is what happened when the "unpreppable" Quant-Q came in for the Class of 2022 that is graduating this year. Immediately the Asian population reduced from 74.9% in 2021 to 65.2% in 2022 and Hispanic enrollment skyrocketed, before things normalized the next couple of years back to 72 and 73%. A new exam is a temporary solution to the problem of Black and Hispanic underenrollment - which is a separate issue from the numbers of Asians.

Your approach is clear from your post - we can't risk a test. Wrong approach. YOU are underestimating black and Hispanic kids. if you want a real solution start at the beginning, not at the end.

Not underestimating them. Just acknowledging the industry-wide best practice that standardized exams are a confounding variable when it comes to selecting for merit and citing the evidence that is directly applicable to the TJ community to back up my assertion.

There is no way to make up for the enormous gap in resources between the two communities. We prefer an approach that levels the playing field not only for Black and Hispanic students, but also for Asian students from lower-income families who have seen major representation issues themselves in the last 10-12 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the status of the emergency stay?

It’s awaiting rejection from Judge Hilton before it travels up to the 4th Circuit, where it will almost certainly be granted in the interest of the 2500 out of the initial nearly 3000 who are still eligible to be selected. It goes without saying that those families deserve to be able to make plans through a regular release of decisions in early spring.

Anonymous wrote:What is the status of the emergency stay?