Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 10:24     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I feel like it’s important to differentiate unassisted vaginal delivery from forceps/vacuum delivery. Does anyone know how instance of prolapse differs there? I feel like this is similar to the scheduled c vs c section after labor difference in outcomes. FWIW my birth classes didn’t spend much time on pelvic floor injuries but it was clear about the pros and cons of lots of interventions and I came away thinking c sections were WAY less scary than forceps. And this was a “natural birth” class too!


Anecdotally: I'm the one who mentioned her friend group and the friends with prolapse, and as I recall none of them had forceps or vacuum deliveries. My own mom had unassisted and unmedicated vaginal births and she developed serious prolapse issues in her 70s.


My mom had four babies vaginally, all pretty easy. Needed total reconstruction of her pelvic area/bladder in her 40s.


PP who asked: great to know, thank you both for the info!
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 10:18     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I feel like it’s important to differentiate unassisted vaginal delivery from forceps/vacuum delivery. Does anyone know how instance of prolapse differs there? I feel like this is similar to the scheduled c vs c section after labor difference in outcomes. FWIW my birth classes didn’t spend much time on pelvic floor injuries but it was clear about the pros and cons of lots of interventions and I came away thinking c sections were WAY less scary than forceps. And this was a “natural birth” class too!


Anecdotally: I'm the one who mentioned her friend group and the friends with prolapse, and as I recall none of them had forceps or vacuum deliveries. My own mom had unassisted and unmedicated vaginal births and she developed serious prolapse issues in her 70s.


My mom had four babies vaginally, all pretty easy. Needed total reconstruction of her pelvic area/bladder in her 40s.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 10:14     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
Anonymous wrote:I feel like it’s important to differentiate unassisted vaginal delivery from forceps/vacuum delivery. Does anyone know how instance of prolapse differs there? I feel like this is similar to the scheduled c vs c section after labor difference in outcomes. FWIW my birth classes didn’t spend much time on pelvic floor injuries but it was clear about the pros and cons of lots of interventions and I came away thinking c sections were WAY less scary than forceps. And this was a “natural birth” class too!


Anecdotally: I'm the one who mentioned her friend group and the friends with prolapse, and as I recall none of them had forceps or vacuum deliveries. My own mom had unassisted and unmedicated vaginal births and she developed serious prolapse issues in her 70s.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 10:07     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Curious why C-Sections are seen as such a bad thing. I delivered vaginally for my first and it was awful. My care team was great, I just hated everything about the entire process. Seemed like a whole lot of waiting around and being in pain. And I ended up needing an episiotomy and extraction anyway, which then resulted in a bunch of scar tissue that caused problems.

Now that I'm pregnant with my second, a C section sounds pretty darn good. No labor, just go in and get the whole thing done and over with in 15 minutes. I know there's recovery, but recovery from vaginal birth sucked, too. And I know it's surgery, so there are risks associated with that, but from talking with my OB it sounds like it's a very, very small increase of risk.

So why exactly are c-sections seen as so horrible?


On a micro, personal level, there is no problem.

On a macro level, the more popular, common and normalized C-sections become, the more physicians-in-training lose the skills needed to support vaginal births. They train for what's normal, and if C-sections begin to outnumber vaginal births, then vaginal births will get less time and focus in the obgyn training curricula. The issue is the loss of skill and collective knowledge on the midwifery maneuvers required to support vaginal births.

My first labor was quite long, and we ended up needing forceps. My ob was quite open after the fact that if the ob supporting this birth was twenty years younger, they would have gone directly to the C-section since they aren't really trained to use forceps any longer as much.


I would have wanted the option, because I would much prefer a c/s to forceps. Both sound horrible (so does every birth actually....I'm firmly in the birth sucks anyway you slice it camp and I had an absolutely horrible vaginal birth that left me permanently scarred emotionally and physically), but forceps sound infinitely worse than a c/s.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 10:07     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
Anonymous wrote:I feel like it’s important to differentiate unassisted vaginal delivery from forceps/vacuum delivery. Does anyone know how instance of prolapse differs there? I feel like this is similar to the scheduled c vs c section after labor difference in outcomes. FWIW my birth classes didn’t spend much time on pelvic floor injuries but it was clear about the pros and cons of lots of interventions and I came away thinking c sections were WAY less scary than forceps. And this was a “natural birth” class too!


This is important to know on a population level, but can't really help a mom trying to decide what she should do. I told my midwives that I wanted a vaginal birth but if it meant forceps or vacuum I'd rather just have a c-section, and the response was that's not an option. Because by the time you're far enough along to know you need an assisted vaginal birth, it's too late to elect a c-section. The list of preferred paths (1. easy vaginal, 2. scheduled c, 3-500 everything else) remains unchanged, and you still can't really choose an easy vaginal birth for your first kid. You have to just take a leap of faith and hope your physiology complies with your ideal.
Anonymous
Post 01/12/2022 09:54     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
Anonymous wrote:Curious why C-Sections are seen as such a bad thing. I delivered vaginally for my first and it was awful. My care team was great, I just hated everything about the entire process. Seemed like a whole lot of waiting around and being in pain. And I ended up needing an episiotomy and extraction anyway, which then resulted in a bunch of scar tissue that caused problems.

Now that I'm pregnant with my second, a C section sounds pretty darn good. No labor, just go in and get the whole thing done and over with in 15 minutes. I know there's recovery, but recovery from vaginal birth sucked, too. And I know it's surgery, so there are risks associated with that, but from talking with my OB it sounds like it's a very, very small increase of risk.

So why exactly are c-sections seen as so horrible?


On a micro, personal level, there is no problem.

On a macro level, the more popular, common and normalized C-sections become, the more physicians-in-training lose the skills needed to support vaginal births. They train for what's normal, and if C-sections begin to outnumber vaginal births, then vaginal births will get less time and focus in the obgyn training curricula. The issue is the loss of skill and collective knowledge on the midwifery maneuvers required to support vaginal births.

My first labor was quite long, and we ended up needing forceps. My ob was quite open after the fact that if the ob supporting this birth was twenty years younger, they would have gone directly to the C-section since they aren't really trained to use forceps any longer as much.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2022 15:45     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
I feel like it’s important to differentiate unassisted vaginal delivery from forceps/vacuum delivery. Does anyone know how instance of prolapse differs there? I feel like this is similar to the scheduled c vs c section after labor difference in outcomes. FWIW my birth classes didn’t spend much time on pelvic floor injuries but it was clear about the pros and cons of lots of interventions and I came away thinking c sections were WAY less scary than forceps. And this was a “natural birth” class too!
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2022 15:30     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There's no problem y c-sections, it's just that a bunch of sanctimonious holier-than-thou women want to find a way to feel like they are better than someone else, so they say pushed a baby out of their vagina and that makes them a better mom.

I had two c-sections b/c my babies were breech. I had two VERY easy recoveries. I didn't tear and don't pee when I laugh or sneeze, I consider this a HUGE WIN over everyone I know that gave birth vaginally, LOL! Really the only downside is the scar, but it's covered even with the smallest bikini.


Absolutely agree, as someone who delivered vaginally with a second degree tear. It’s all bad news down there. I was so afraid of being cut open. Watch a video (a real video) of repair of a vaginal tear. It makes c-sections look positively civilized, and in real life, the doctors don’t take anywhere near the time and care they do in the videos. Would definitely go back in time and request an elective c if I could.


So much r/BadWomensAnatomy on this thread.

Pelvic floor issues are a result of pregnancy. Not necessarily correlated to mode of delivery.

I've had 3 unmedicated vaginal births and I don't have any residual effects. I never pee unless I'm trying to and I work out with intensity every day. I'm a size 2 and I don't even have so much as a stretch mark.

I attribute this to a mix of genetics, overall health upon becoming pregnant and maintaining optimum health during pregnancy, as well as a thorough understanding of evidence based maternal healthcare.


How old are you and are you still menstruating?

I'm older and in my friend group, it is overwhelmingly the ones who had vaginal births who have severe prolapse issues. They didn't start until after menopause, however.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2022 15:26     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There's no problem y c-sections, it's just that a bunch of sanctimonious holier-than-thou women want to find a way to feel like they are better than someone else, so they say pushed a baby out of their vagina and that makes them a better mom.

I had two c-sections b/c my babies were breech. I had two VERY easy recoveries. I didn't tear and don't pee when I laugh or sneeze, I consider this a HUGE WIN over everyone I know that gave birth vaginally, LOL! Really the only downside is the scar, but it's covered even with the smallest bikini.


Absolutely agree, as someone who delivered vaginally with a second degree tear. It’s all bad news down there. I was so afraid of being cut open. Watch a video (a real video) of repair of a vaginal tear. It makes c-sections look positively civilized, and in real life, the doctors don’t take anywhere near the time and care they do in the videos. Would definitely go back in time and request an elective c if I could.


So much r/BadWomensAnatomy on this thread.

Pelvic floor issues are a result of pregnancy. Not necessarily correlated to mode of delivery.

I've had 3 unmedicated vaginal births and I don't have any residual effects. I never pee unless I'm trying to and I work out with intensity every day. I'm a size 2 and I don't even have so much as a stretch mark.

I attribute this to a mix of genetics, overall health upon becoming pregnant and maintaining optimum health during pregnancy, as well as a thorough understanding of evidence based maternal healthcare.


How fortunate for you to have had 3 successful vaginal deliveries that did not harm You. Unfortunately your perspective is misinformed. Vaginal birth is the leading cause of prolapse. Forceps and vacuum are highly correlated with pelvic floor disorders, like prolapse. I’m glad you attribute your experience to your your health practices but your n of 1 does not constitute the same thing as peer reviewed, scientific evidence.

I guess it probably makes you feel better though to victim blame. My best friend had cancer and I don’t go around bragging I didn’t get it because of how healthy I eat.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2022 15:06     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There's no problem y c-sections, it's just that a bunch of sanctimonious holier-than-thou women want to find a way to feel like they are better than someone else, so they say pushed a baby out of their vagina and that makes them a better mom.

I had two c-sections b/c my babies were breech. I had two VERY easy recoveries. I didn't tear and don't pee when I laugh or sneeze, I consider this a HUGE WIN over everyone I know that gave birth vaginally, LOL! Really the only downside is the scar, but it's covered even with the smallest bikini.


Absolutely agree, as someone who delivered vaginally with a second degree tear. It’s all bad news down there. I was so afraid of being cut open. Watch a video (a real video) of repair of a vaginal tear. It makes c-sections look positively civilized, and in real life, the doctors don’t take anywhere near the time and care they do in the videos. Would definitely go back in time and request an elective c if I could.


So much r/BadWomensAnatomy on this thread.

Pelvic floor issues are a result of pregnancy. Not necessarily correlated to mode of delivery.

I've had 3 unmedicated vaginal births and I don't have any residual effects. I never pee unless I'm trying to and I work out with intensity every day. I'm a size 2 and I don't even have so much as a stretch mark.

I attribute this to a mix of genetics, overall health upon becoming pregnant and maintaining optimum health during pregnancy, as well as a thorough understanding of evidence based maternal healthcare.


There are some pelvic floor issues that 100% are a result of pregnancy overall, there are also many pelvic floor injuries that can be exacerbated or created by a difficult vaginal birth. Acting like that doesn't happen is r/BadWomensAnatomy
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2022 14:39     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There's no problem y c-sections, it's just that a bunch of sanctimonious holier-than-thou women want to find a way to feel like they are better than someone else, so they say pushed a baby out of their vagina and that makes them a better mom.

I had two c-sections b/c my babies were breech. I had two VERY easy recoveries. I didn't tear and don't pee when I laugh or sneeze, I consider this a HUGE WIN over everyone I know that gave birth vaginally, LOL! Really the only downside is the scar, but it's covered even with the smallest bikini.


Absolutely agree, as someone who delivered vaginally with a second degree tear. It’s all bad news down there. I was so afraid of being cut open. Watch a video (a real video) of repair of a vaginal tear. It makes c-sections look positively civilized, and in real life, the doctors don’t take anywhere near the time and care they do in the videos. Would definitely go back in time and request an elective c if I could.


So much r/BadWomensAnatomy on this thread.

Pelvic floor issues are a result of pregnancy. Not necessarily correlated to mode of delivery.

I've had 3 unmedicated vaginal births and I don't have any residual effects. I never pee unless I'm trying to and I work out with intensity every day. I'm a size 2 and I don't even have so much as a stretch mark.

I attribute this to a mix of genetics, overall health upon becoming pregnant and maintaining optimum health during pregnancy, as well as a thorough understanding of evidence based maternal healthcare.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2022 14:31     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:C-Section are convenient for stockers to make that tee time. The cost is nearly double for the hospital revenue. This is not for the mother or child wellbeing but profit over people.


Doctor^


My vaginal birth was 35K but I had multiple follow ups to urogynecologists and pelvic floor PT that probably cost upwards of 25,000 and I’m looking at prolapse repair surgery now which is easily 50,000. My scheduled c section was 45,000 and I have no long term ill effects. If you take into account the additional costs for vag births that result in maternal/fetal injury and require follow up and surgical repair (whether now or
Years later) my guess is that the numbers are not so
Black and white. How many hysterectomies and bladder slings and mesh surgeries are happening because of vaginal deliveries?


Mostly just you but you sure are vocal about it.

I'd love to know what you do (or don't do) for a living since you have copious time to troll this forum with your fear mongering for something that may or may not have happened ~ a decade ago.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2022 14:29     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
If it's recommended as a way to increase the odds of a healthy delivery of the baby, do it!
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2022 14:14     Subject: So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not sure why we can't just all share our experiences and not yell at other people about theirs.

Oh, yes, I do, because the sanctimommies out there who think the way they did it is right.



That's the way it is here in the DC bubble. Whether you are far left or far right, your way is the right way, the only way. No discussion needed because you are an idiot if you disagree with me

We are soon moving back to the midwest where most people have brains, not just opinions. Will be a breath of fresh air.


I mean, lots of things have brains, pp. Cows. Pigs. My dog. Most lawyers.
Anonymous
Post 01/11/2022 13:52     Subject: Re:So what exactly is the problem with C-Sections?
As someone who had very easy C-sections many years ago (my kids are late teens now), there is nothing wrong with them.

Nowadays I get to be quiet in friend discussions when my friends who had vaginal births have started to struggle with prolapses. I have a C-section scar and little shelf. Those are the only side effects I encounter.