Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maus is a graphic novel. I wouldn’t even call it literature. It’s for people who are too lazy to actually read. People are acting as if it is the same as the Diary of Anne Frank.

Yeah, those idiots that give out Pulitzer Prizes. What were they thinking?

Illustrations devalue any good words that are next to them, and the fact that the books helps young people engage and understand a complex topic is meaningless because I don't like comics.

/ps that is sarcasm, and yes it is the same as DoAF, but that isn't the point. People should get to decide for themselves. And yes that goes for Mein Kampf also.

Ah, "people" should decide for themselves, but which people?

Libraries have finite space and there are books that are pornographic, or simply false, or that advocate for genocide, etc.

To Kill A Mockingbird was given a Pulitzer Prize, and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is frankly above the reach of any modern critic or award, as Hemingway put it, "All modern American literature comes from one book by Mark Twain called Huckleberry Finn," but that hasn't stopped people from banning both.

Hey I did not take a crack at TKAM or TAoHF, you took a crack at Maus.

I certainly agree with Hemingway about Twain but that is not relevant to the point.

What in Maus is false or advocates for genocide? Or was that just another strawman?

Did I say it advocated for genocide?

You said it was OK to ban books that are pornographic, simply false, or advocate for genocide, and you appear to support the banning of Maus, so which is it?

Maus is:

- Pornographic?
- Simply False? or
- Advocates Genocide?

No, I was arguing a broader point, simply that not all books are fit for school libraries.

I wouldn't personally ban Maus, but Maus isn't an especially valuable work either so I don't see any reason to care greatly one way or the other.

Some people here are desperate to be offended, outraged. Of course the real goal is to scream about how bad the other team is. Nobody can seriously argue that a school library isn't complete without Maus.

Dude.

It won a frickin' Pulitzer Prize. Because it is an incredibly clever work that helps people, especially young people, understand a very difficult and painful topic.

I can seriously argue that a school library isn't complete without Maus.

In fact I just did.

I am kinda thinking you're trolling me, and I am gonna stop with you now, because you're either a troll, a dunce (and I don't think that, BTW) or something way, way worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maus is a graphic novel. I wouldn’t even call it literature. It’s for people who are too lazy to actually read. People are acting as if it is the same as the Diary of Anne Frank.

Yeah, those idiots that give out Pulitzer Prizes. What were they thinking?

Illustrations devalue any good words that are next to them, and the fact that the books helps young people engage and understand a complex topic is meaningless because I don't like comics.

/ps that is sarcasm, and yes it is the same as DoAF, but that isn't the point. People should get to decide for themselves. And yes that goes for Mein Kampf also.

Ah, "people" should decide for themselves, but which people?

Libraries have finite space and there are books that are pornographic, or simply false, or that advocate for genocide, etc.

To Kill A Mockingbird was given a Pulitzer Prize, and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is frankly above the reach of any modern critic or award, as Hemingway put it, "All modern American literature comes from one book by Mark Twain called Huckleberry Finn," but that hasn't stopped people from banning both.

Hey I did not take a crack at TKAM or TAoHF, you took a crack at Maus.

I certainly agree with Hemingway about Twain but that is not relevant to the point.

What in Maus is false or advocates for genocide? Or was that just another strawman?

Did I say it advocated for genocide?

You said it was OK to ban books that are pornographic, simply false, or advocate for genocide, and you appear to support the banning of Maus, so which is it?

Maus is:

- Pornographic?
- Simply False? or
- Advocates Genocide?

No, I was arguing a broader point, simply that not all books are fit for school libraries.

I wouldn't personally ban Maus, but Maus isn't an especially valuable work either so I don't see any reason to care greatly one way or the other.

Some people here are desperate to be offended, outraged. Of course the real goal is to scream about how bad the other team is. Nobody can seriously argue that a school library isn't complete without Maus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maus is a graphic novel. I wouldn’t even call it literature. It’s for people who are too lazy to actually read. People are acting as if it is the same as the Diary of Anne Frank.

Yeah, those idiots that give out Pulitzer Prizes. What were they thinking?

Illustrations devalue any good words that are next to them, and the fact that the books helps young people engage and understand a complex topic is meaningless because I don't like comics.

/ps that is sarcasm, and yes it is the same as DoAF, but that isn't the point. People should get to decide for themselves. And yes that goes for Mein Kampf also.

Ah, "people" should decide for themselves, but which people?

Libraries have finite space and there are books that are pornographic, or simply false, or that advocate for genocide, etc.

To Kill A Mockingbird was given a Pulitzer Prize, and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is frankly above the reach of any modern critic or award, as Hemingway put it, "All modern American literature comes from one book by Mark Twain called Huckleberry Finn," but that hasn't stopped people from banning both.

Hey I did not take a crack at TKAM or TAoHF, you took a crack at Maus.

I certainly agree with Hemingway about Twain but that is not relevant to the point.

What in Maus is false or advocates for genocide? Or was that just another strawman?

Did I say it advocated for genocide?

You said it was OK to ban books that are pornographic, simply false, or advocate for genocide, and you appear to support the banning of Maus, so which is it?

Maus is:

- Pornographic?
- Simply False? or
- Advocates Genocide?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maus is a graphic novel. I wouldn’t even call it literature. It’s for people who are too lazy to actually read. People are acting as if it is the same as the Diary of Anne Frank.

Yeah, those idiots that give out Pulitzer Prizes. What were they thinking?

Illustrations devalue any good words that are next to them, and the fact that the books helps young people engage and understand a complex topic is meaningless because I don't like comics.

/ps that is sarcasm, and yes it is the same as DoAF, but that isn't the point. People should get to decide for themselves. And yes that goes for Mein Kampf also.

Ah, "people" should decide for themselves, but which people?

Libraries have finite space and there are books that are pornographic, or simply false, or that advocate for genocide, etc.

To Kill A Mockingbird was given a Pulitzer Prize, and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is frankly above the reach of any modern critic or award, as Hemingway put it, "All modern American literature comes from one book by Mark Twain called Huckleberry Finn," but that hasn't stopped people from banning both.

Hey I did not take a crack at TKAM or TAoHF, you took a crack at Maus.

I certainly agree with Hemingway about Twain but that is not relevant to the point.

What in Maus is false or advocates for genocide? Or was that just another strawman?

Did I say it advocated for genocide?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, but has anyone pointed out that To Kill a Mockingbird has been removed from required reading in a very liberal district?

According to the Seattle Times, the Mukilteo School Board voted unanimously Monday night to remove Harper Lee’s “To Kill a Mockingbird” from the required reading list for ninth graders while still allowing for teachers to choose to teach the classic novel to students.

The board acted after months of discussion among teachers, parents and students, and in reaction to concerns over racism in the classic novel, first published in 1960.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/1/28/22906501/seattle-school-bans-to-kill-a-mockingbird-over-racism-concerns-as-wave-of-book-challenges-continues

I think there a conflation of books in the curriculum vs books in school libraries (i.e. book banning). Whether or not a particular book is to be taught as part of the curriculum can be debatable. I hope all can agree that removing books from libraries is not a good thing.

Are you saying there are no books that don't belong in a school library?

I didn't say that. There is generally thought and consideration on which books to include in the school library. Having some astroturfed parents group suddenly remove a book because it challenges their worldview is not a good thing.

So we agree there are books that don't belong in a school library.

You just don't like that the local community gets to decide? Who would you suggest decides if not the community?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:How can you tell they're Nazis? WHEN THEY BAN BOOKS ABOUT NAZIS!

Some school board in Tennessee - McMinn County (home of Athens TN, which one of my white ancestors founded 200 years ago, before he got the hell out) has banned one of the greatest graphic novels and best books about the Holocaust - Maus. The vote was 10-0. Not one of those f'in hillbillies got it.

They banned Maus! I can't believe it.

And it was Holocaust Remembrance Day.

I can tell everyone gets their news from twitter rather than actual facts on the ground. People should read up on the Maus in McMinn County "banning." It's much more different than you might expect. I don't agree with the board as I read Maus when I was in middle school but at the same time the board is not what people are accusing them of.

Since you think book banning is acceptable (it’s fascism), what was the argument against Maus that you found compelling? Why was it worthy of banning? On Holocaust Remembrance Day, of all days.

This is such a weak argument. Schools decide not to include/teach all manner of things because they have judged them to be obscene, inaccurate, etc.

Also, banning books is not "fascism," groups all over the political spectrum have banned books and/or argued against the inclusion of certain books on various grounds.

Answer the question I posed: what was the argument against Maus that you found so compelling in favor of its banning.

I actually don't agree with its "banning," but it doesn't particularly concern me either. This is just another manufactured controversy for people to rant on twitter about.

In light of the GOP’s march to fascism, it should concern you.

Maybe this sounded clever in your head?

I’m new to this thread, but I’ve seen that response in other threads. Is this a new catchphrase?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All I can think about is how dumb these kids will be.

That’s the point. There won’t be more Republican voters if kids are taught to empathize with other people, to understand their stories and to think critically.

+1

Elite Republicans DO want their kids to have this knowledge. It's just the dumb sheep who don't realize that they are putting their kids at a disadvantage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, but has anyone pointed out that To Kill a Mockingbird has been removed from required reading in a very liberal district?

According to the Seattle Times, the Mukilteo School Board voted unanimously Monday night to remove Harper Lee’s “To Kill a Mockingbird” from the required reading list for ninth graders while still allowing for teachers to choose to teach the classic novel to students.

The board acted after months of discussion among teachers, parents and students, and in reaction to concerns over racism in the classic novel, first published in 1960.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/1/28/22906501/seattle-school-bans-to-kill-a-mockingbird-over-racism-concerns-as-wave-of-book-challenges-continues

I think there a conflation of books in the curriculum vs books in school libraries (i.e. book banning). Whether or not a particular book is to be taught as part of the curriculum can be debatable. I hope all can agree that removing books from libraries is not a good thing.

Are you saying there are no books that don't belong in a school library?

Whatever happened to personal choice? When it comes to mask wearing Republicans like to say their personal freedom and liberty is at stake, but when it comes to a book that they are free to instruct their own kids to not read seem very concerned with protecting everyone else from WORDS.

Pay attention to what your kids read and talk to them about it but stay the F out of mine and my kids rights. You don't mind telling your kids not to wear masks so just tell them not to read a book that offends you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, but has anyone pointed out that To Kill a Mockingbird has been removed from required reading in a very liberal district?

According to the Seattle Times, the Mukilteo School Board voted unanimously Monday night to remove Harper Lee’s “To Kill a Mockingbird” from the required reading list for ninth graders while still allowing for teachers to choose to teach the classic novel to students.

The board acted after months of discussion among teachers, parents and students, and in reaction to concerns over racism in the classic novel, first published in 1960.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/1/28/22906501/seattle-school-bans-to-kill-a-mockingbird-over-racism-concerns-as-wave-of-book-challenges-continues

I think there a conflation of books in the curriculum vs books in school libraries (i.e. book banning). Whether or not a particular book is to be taught as part of the curriculum can be debatable. I hope all can agree that removing books from libraries is not a good thing.

Are you saying there are no books that don't belong in a school library?

I didn't say that. There is generally thought and consideration on which books to include in the school library. Having some astroturfed parents group suddenly remove a book because it challenges their worldview is not a good thing.

+1

Just because right wing parents evidently don’t read to their children or encourage them to read doesn’t mean that there aren’t people whose lives are dedicated to literary works. Librarians and critics, curriculum developers, child development specialists - the books that end up in an age specific library select books purposefully and carefully.

I wonder what the YouTube histories of these kids look like. There parents don’t seem to put any parental controls on their internet access; just books that might give them an open mind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maus is a graphic novel. I wouldn’t even call it literature. It’s for people who are too lazy to actually read. People are acting as if it is the same as the Diary of Anne Frank.

Yeah, those idiots that give out Pulitzer Prizes. What were they thinking?

Illustrations devalue any good words that are next to them, and the fact that the books helps young people engage and understand a complex topic is meaningless because I don't like comics.

/ps that is sarcasm, and yes it is the same as DoAF, but that isn't the point. People should get to decide for themselves. And yes that goes for Mein Kampf also.

Ah, "people" should decide for themselves, but which people?

Libraries have finite space and there are books that are pornographic, or simply false, or that advocate for genocide, etc.

To Kill A Mockingbird was given a Pulitzer Prize, and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is frankly above the reach of any modern critic or award, as Hemingway put it, "All modern American literature comes from one book by Mark Twain called Huckleberry Finn," but that hasn't stopped people from banning both.

Hey I did not take a crack at TKAM or TAoHF, you took a crack at Maus.

I certainly agree with Hemingway about Twain but that is not relevant to the point.

What in Maus is false or advocates for genocide? Or was that just another strawman?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, but has anyone pointed out that To Kill a Mockingbird has been removed from required reading in a very liberal district?

According to the Seattle Times, the Mukilteo School Board voted unanimously Monday night to remove Harper Lee’s “To Kill a Mockingbird” from the required reading list for ninth graders while still allowing for teachers to choose to teach the classic novel to students.

The board acted after months of discussion among teachers, parents and students, and in reaction to concerns over racism in the classic novel, first published in 1960.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/1/28/22906501/seattle-school-bans-to-kill-a-mockingbird-over-racism-concerns-as-wave-of-book-challenges-continues

I think there a conflation of books in the curriculum vs books in school libraries (i.e. book banning). Whether or not a particular book is to be taught as part of the curriculum can be debatable. I hope all can agree that removing books from libraries is not a good thing.

Are you saying there are no books that don't belong in a school library?

I didn't say that. There is generally thought and consideration on which books to include in the school library. Having some astroturfed parents group suddenly remove a book because it challenges their worldview is not a good thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure if this is what my spouse shared with me, but please get the full story before you comment. I do know one of these books available to 13 year olds shows an explicit drawing of someone giving a blow job. I’m no prude and I think we should exercise extreme caution censoring books, but I don’t want my kid reading that. And no, my kid also doesn’t have unfettered access to the internet.

+1 I don’t support censorship of anything but restricting age inappropriate books is not only acceptable but sensible. But some of the radical fringe insist 9 years should be exposed to graphic imagery.

+2
Parents interested in exposing their children to the abuse and rape of women, as well as other graphic depictions of sex, are welcome to check those books out in a public library to share with their kids. They do not have any place in a public school. Period.

+1

Four people who are happily greasing the skids on a slippery slope to fascism.

Indeed, it is quite surprising the people and organizations who are "greasing the skids on a slipper slope to fascism" these days.

https://www.iwf.org/2020/11/16/some-in-aclu-have-new-cause-book-banning/

Didn't Maus win the Pulitzer as well?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maus is a graphic novel. I wouldn’t even call it literature. It’s for people who are too lazy to actually read. People are acting as if it is the same as the Diary of Anne Frank.

Yeah, those idiots that give out Pulitzer Prizes. What were they thinking?

Illustrations devalue any good words that are next to them, and the fact that the books helps young people engage and understand a complex topic is meaningless because I don't like comics.

/ps that is sarcasm, and yes it is the same as DoAF, but that isn't the point. People should get to decide for themselves. And yes that goes for Mein Kampf also.

Ah, "people" should decide for themselves, but which people?

Libraries have finite space and there are books that are pornographic, or simply false, or that advocate for genocide, etc.

To Kill A Mockingbird was given a Pulitzer Prize, and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is frankly above the reach of any modern critic or award, as Hemingway put it, "All modern American literature comes from one book by Mark Twain called Huckleberry Finn," but that hasn't stopped people from banning both.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, but has anyone pointed out that To Kill a Mockingbird has been removed from required reading in a very liberal district?

According to the Seattle Times, the Mukilteo School Board voted unanimously Monday night to remove Harper Lee’s “To Kill a Mockingbird” from the required reading list for ninth graders while still allowing for teachers to choose to teach the classic novel to students.

The board acted after months of discussion among teachers, parents and students, and in reaction to concerns over racism in the classic novel, first published in 1960.

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/1/28/22906501/seattle-school-bans-to-kill-a-mockingbird-over-racism-concerns-as-wave-of-book-challenges-continues

I think there a conflation of books in the curriculum vs books in school libraries (i.e. book banning). Whether or not a particular book is to be taught as part of the curriculum can be debatable. I hope all can agree that removing books from libraries is not a good thing.

Are you saying there are no books that don't belong in a school library?