Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I could possibly see that. My husband rarely checks in with his parents. They are divorced and he talks to his father maybe once every few years.

But what I definitely do see is a gene for helplessness. My 5 year old son has been helpless since birth and no amount of letting him figure it out or coaching has helped. He just stands there and yells about how he can't do it. Meanwhile my 2 year old daughter figured out 6 months ago to go look for the stool and bring it back to get whatever she wants. My mother has similar complaints about my father needing a lot of hand holding.

great examples….

Of having no common sense. Darwin used to take care of those types. Now everyone sits at home on screens so less fatal “accidents.”

Your flippant dismissal of PP’s innocent CHILDREN is a truly horrible and unnecessary thing to say … it adds nothing apart from malice to the conversation and devalues life. . Are you on the spectrum or just missing the sensitivity chip?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I come from a very patriarchal culture (another country). This might surprise you but all my male relatives treated their mothers with a lot of care and respect. Two of my uncles and their wives cared for each of my respective grandmothers - and I am talking physical care like feeding, cleaning etc.

I find the wealthier people become, the more independent, self-reliant and self focused they become. This is why you see such an atomized society in a wealthy country like the US.

Interesting point

The actual point is the societies and classes that live in multigenerational houses and never move.
Thus everyone socializes the income (and $ remittances!) and care-taking. Although there is always the family moocher! And they will always ask the richies in America for more cash each month!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol at "genetic gene"

As opposed to all those non-genetic genes out there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:lol at "genetic gene"

As opposed to all those non-genetic genes out there.

Autism gene is pretty strong….. even the high functioning one…. No executive functioning, no ability to care or see needs, can’t cover date well about real stuff, little situational awareness, no remembering how to do things that aren’t fascinating…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I could possibly see that. My husband rarely checks in with his parents. They are divorced and he talks to his father maybe once every few years.

But what I definitely do see is a gene for helplessness. My 5 year old son has been helpless since birth and no amount of letting him figure it out or coaching has helped. He just stands there and yells about how he can't do it. Meanwhile my 2 year old daughter figured out 6 months ago to go look for the stool and bring it back to get whatever she wants. My mother has similar complaints about my father needing a lot of hand holding.

great examples….

Of having no common sense. Darwin used to take care of those types. Now everyone sits at home on screens so less fatal “accidents.”

Anonymous wrote:OP I come from a very patriarchal culture (another country). This might surprise you but all my male relatives treated their mothers with a lot of care and respect. Two of my uncles and their wives cared for each of my respective grandmothers - and I am talking physical care like feeding, cleaning etc.

I find the wealthier people become, the more independent, self-reliant and self focused they become. This is why you see such an atomized society in a wealthy country like the US.

Interesting point

Anonymous wrote:I’m really curious about this. It’s not just in my family but in a lot of my friends families as well. It seems daughters go up and beyond for their parents and sons are worthless.
My mom was just placed in assisted living and one brother visits her weekly and my other brother rarely visits. She fell last night and is in the hospital. My two brothers live 10 mts from the hospital and neither one has gone to see her. My one brother just called me asking when I was driving down to see her. I asked him why he hasn’t he gone to see her yet and he moaned, “well I was going riding today”. My other brother said he was golfing today. Fyi we’re talking about an amazing mother who would die for her kids and has always been there for us emotionally and financially(if needed). I live hour and half away and drive down to see her at least twice a week, sometimes 3. Of course I’m running to see her today. I just don’t get the mindset.

Yeah I have seen that over and over again in our and friends’ families even where parents tried hard to treat their children of different genders equally. I don’t think it is all socialization.

Your parents raised them that way. Also, just because you see her as amazing doesn't mean your brothers view her that way, too. I hope your mom has a speedy recovery.

OP I come from a very patriarchal culture (another country). This might surprise you but all my male relatives treated their mothers with a lot of care and respect. Two of my uncles and their wives cared for each of my respective grandmothers - and I am talking physical care like feeding, cleaning etc.

I find the wealthier people become, the more independent, self-reliant and self focused they become. This is why you see such an atomized society in a wealthy country like the US.

So far, you have been way off with all your assumptions as one would expect with an online stranger. You have little interest in discussing the actual topic being discussed but in making irrelevant attacks.
As I suspect you have an irony deficiency, this latter point will go over your head.

For the non genetic, non gendered genes out there

“In politics, If you want anything said, ask a man. If you want anything done, ask a woman.”
― Margaret Thatcher

Wherever you find a great man, you will find a great mother or a great wife standing behind him -- or so they used to say. It would be interesting to know how many great women have had great fathers and husbands behind them.”
― Dorothy L. Sayers, Gaudy Night

“We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters.”
― Gloria Steinem

“I think women are foolish to pretend they are equal to men, they are far superior and always have been.”
― William Golding, Lord of the Flies

“the wounded child inside many males is a boy who, when he first spoke his truths, was silenced by paternal sadism, by a patriarchal world that did not want him to claim his true feelings. The wounded child inside many females is a girl who was taught from early childhood that she must become something other than herself, deny her true feelings, in order to attract and please others. When men and women punish each other for truth telling, we reinforce the notion that lies are better. To be loving we willingly hear the other’s truth, and most important, we affirm the value of truth telling. Lies may make people feel better, but they do not help them to know love.”
― bell hooks, All About Love: New Visions

“People call me a feminist whenever I express statements that distinguish me from a doormat.”
― Rebecca West

Anonymous wrote:I could possibly see that. My husband rarely checks in with his parents. They are divorced and he talks to his father maybe once every few years.

But what I definitely do see is a gene for helplessness. My 5 year old son has been helpless since birth and no amount of letting him figure it out or coaching has helped. He just stands there and yells about how he can't do it. Meanwhile my 2 year old daughter figured out 6 months ago to go look for the stool and bring it back to get whatever she wants. My mother has similar complaints about my father needing a lot of hand holding.

great examples….

I could possibly see that. My husband rarely checks in with his parents. They are divorced and he talks to his father maybe once every few years.

But what I definitely do see is a gene for helplessness. My 5 year old son has been helpless since birth and no amount of letting him figure it out or coaching has helped. He just stands there and yells about how he can't do it. Meanwhile my 2 year old daughter figured out 6 months ago to go look for the stool and bring it back to get whatever she wants. My mother has similar complaints about my father needing a lot of hand holding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's all socialization. My parents were very co-equal in terms of parenting and domestic tasks, and my dad helps to care for my mom's mother, who is in assisted living near them. My brother lives in the same city as my parents and sees them a few times a year. I live across the country so I don't see them often either, but normally we go out for 9 or 10 days once a year and my parents come visit us 2-3 times for a week each, so I spend a lot more time with them than my brother does. He just doesn't make it a priority.

I agree - many parents can tell you raise their children with the same values, guidelines, obligations etc and they still turn out so differently ….

I raised our DS to help with chores and cook - actually told him that I did not want his future wife to blame me for raising a lazy sexist husband … I required much lower levels of chores and domestic work from DD as she had chronic illness … still DD shows much more interest in my well being … Love them both to bits but even without enforcing traditional gender roles, my DD is much more sensitive to checking on how I am doing.

It is very hard to undo thousands of years of hard wiring …

You treated your children differently and now you suffer the consequences - poster with chronic, autoimmune disability.

Ok glad you had your inappropriate Gotcha moment … your comment makes no sense/ not logical in terms of this thread. The point was DD was not socialized to take on traditional gender roles - the opposite. She is still more caring. I am agreeing with PP that the gender gap is not just socialization.

My DIL is thrilled with DS who does chores and cooks. Did not treat children differently by choice but by medical advice.

Recovering from your CFS may be better served by doing yoga or relaxation exercises than taking cheap shots/ unprovoked attacks online …

You just don't get it - your DS is obviously capable of being a great caretaker, hence why your DIL is happy. He decided not to be with you because he's probably resentful.

Wtf? My DS is obviously capable of being a great caretaker and I have always encouraged him to do so. He is not with me because he is a grown man. I would have failed miserably if he was living in our basement. Your logic skills are impaired.You are going off an irrelevant mean-spirited and pointless tangent.

The point of the argument is biology versus socialization. My son was socialized to be caring and he is. But my DD is more naturally caring. This is just my personal example to lend support to earlier PPs who contended that the gender gap is not all socialization or biological but a combination of both. How much is biology and how much is socialization, no one knows. Scientists have been arguing over this for decades.

You really need to focus on getting your health back on track. Making snide attacks that serve no purpose is not good for your health.

It's funny how you bring up my health as your only very weak argument and how you backtrack from complaining about your son showing less interest in your well-being. I bet you used your daughter's illness, which I assume it's mental based on your comments about mine, as an excuse to treat your children differently. There is no such thing as "naturally more caring", it's all upbringing. BTW, I'm 100% in remission due to medication, so yoga and putting up with gender stereotyping are not part of the treatment. As someone who will take care of my (loving, fair, and involved) parents together with my sibling, I suggest calling your son and apologizing for putting a larger burden on him growing up. Ask him how to make things better now. Accept that you neglected him in caring for your special needs child and his detachment is most likely based on that and not some biological BS.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/band-brothers-and-sisters/201406/siblings-children-disabilities
https://consumer.healthday.com/mental-health-information-25/behavior-health-news-56/siblings-of-disabled-kids-may-show-emotional-effects-678727.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-favorite-child/201002/are-children-special-needs-favored

Unlike you, I have provided a number studies confirming that the biology versus nature debate is ongoing with no consensus. Most gender experts agree that gender behavior differences are caused by a mixture of biology and socialization but the disagreement is in to what degree degree. To say gender differences are all socialization is not backed up by hard science or empirical evidence.

Unlike you, I did not launch an unprovoked pointless attack on a mother based on scant information. If you come after me for no reason, I will hit back.

Your crystal ball is not working. So far, you have been way off with all your assumptions as one would expect with an online stranger. You have little interest in discussing the actual topic being discussed but in making irrelevant attacks.

Ironically, have you ever considered that you may be part of the socialization problem ? Assuming so much blame and shame on mothers you don’t know and have no idea how they raised their kids or what their relationships are like with their kids? My son and his wife would probably laugh hard at your bizarre opinions of me because they are so off base. I was not complaining about my son but noting that there are differences that cannot be explained by upbringing. I am tight with DD also, but thanks for your unsolicited advice.

As I suspect you have an irony deficiency, this latter point will go over your head.

Anonymous wrote:lol at "genetic gene"

As opposed to all those non-genetic genes out there.