Anonymous
Post 11/05/2021 11:26     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
My daughter likes black and high end fashion and home design. She prefers modern palettes. I don’t know if that’s progressive enough for you op, but I doubt she cares.
Anonymous
Post 11/05/2021 11:19     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
Ask yourself; would you object if a little BOY was wearing a princess dress? I'm guessing not. Ask yourself why that is.

Also, "princess" means different things, especially now. Disney's ur-princesses are definitely active characters and the heroes of their own stories. Princesses in books and movies are not passively waiting to be rescued, are not nearly so restricted in their activities, and are not just valued for their looks (or if they are, they tend to chafe and push back against those restrictions).
Anonymous
Post 11/05/2021 11:13     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Am I a bad person that I have a visceral reaction when I see girls in traditional princess costumes? If they’re non-traditional like Mulan or Leia (ie people who actually DO something) I’m okay with it. Even the Frozen princesses who are so popular nowadays seem to just exist to be blonde and pretty. Btw I have a 5yo and so far we’ve been doing creative/neutral costumes like doctor or monkey, but she’s starting to get influenced by her K classmates :-/


Yes, it's bad. Let your 5yo wear silly, frilly princess costumes. It's such a short phase. My daughters are 6 & 9 and are over princesses, although the 6yo still has a couple princess dresses for the occasional princess party. Neither ever dressed as a princess for Halloween. Let your 5yo wear a princess dress and tiara and wave a wand around. I promise you it doesn't mean she won't grow up to be a doctor, lawyer, etc.

Also, the main Frozen princess isn't blonde. She has auburn braids (with a white streak!) and is quite a strong character, not a damsel in distress.


Right? The whole point of Frozen was that Anna was the savior. She went on the quest to save Elsa, and she did so, not the handsome prince.

My kid who loved tutus and fancy dresses is now obsessed with dragons and dinosaurs. I think that the princess thing is really about the bling, not the fantasy of being helpless and having someone save you and just being pretty.
Anonymous
Post 11/05/2021 11:02     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
Anonymous wrote:Am I a bad person that I have a visceral reaction when I see girls in traditional princess costumes? If they’re non-traditional like Mulan or Leia (ie people who actually DO something) I’m okay with it. Even the Frozen princesses who are so popular nowadays seem to just exist to be blonde and pretty. Btw I have a 5yo and so far we’ve been doing creative/neutral costumes like doctor or monkey, but she’s starting to get influenced by her K classmates :-/


You are ludicrous. There is nothing wrong about letting a little girl dress up like a princess on Halloween just as there is nothing wrong with a boy dressing as Z
A prince. Get a life!
Anonymous
Post 11/04/2021 21:31     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Being viscerally annoyed by little girls' interests is not as progressive as you think it is.


+100000
-Signed my mom 2 girls under 3. My daughters love tractors, construction machines, getting dirty outside, baby dolls, ballet and princesses (they both went as wonder women and the costume is very princess). Let your kids BE who they are.


Sorry for all of the errors- you get it!
Anonymous
Post 11/04/2021 21:30     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
Anonymous wrote:Being viscerally annoyed by little girls' interests is not as progressive as you think it is.


+100000
-Signed my mom 2 girls under 3. My daughters love tractors, construction machines, getting dirty outside, baby dolls, ballet and princesses (they both went as wonder women and the costume is very princess). Let your kids BE who they are.
Anonymous
Post 11/03/2021 13:48     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
I remember one of the first things I found it when I was having a daughter was my fear of the Disney industrial princess complex but I think I've kind of evolved to recognize that her interest in them was mostly about being the hero in her favorite story and getting to wear a gorgeous dress.

Anonymous
Post 11/03/2021 12:56     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Mad props to all the dissenters from OP on this thread. We’ve come a long way from when I first started reading DCUM 15 years ago. Internalized misogyny and fear of traditionally feminine things is being rooted out at long last amongst educated parents and I am HERE FOR IT.


It's definitely been a journey. This will sound silly but you know what really helped to bring this home for me when I was a young feminist? The movie Legally Blonde. That movie is actually really transgressive, or was when it came out, because a core theme of the movie was that femininity does not equal stupidity or vapidity. You can be ultra feminine AND smart AND competent. You can dress up as a princess on Halloween and then go kick butt at school and that's not weird.

But the anti-pink, anti-princess crowd is surprisingly robust. I'm in a moms group and there are a couple moms of daughters who say stuff like "Larla said she wanted a pink coat this year and I don't know where she gets these idea!" Fortunately, there are a few of us willing to speak up and say "...because she likes pink? What is wrong with that?" But it's still disappointing to hear people talk like this. As though a 4 yr old who loves dinosaurs and the color green is somehow doing better at life than one who loves princesses and pink. I mean really, folks, what the heck. These are children.


This. Legally Blond is fantastic.

I'll also note that, while I'm not a huge Disney fan, the princesses these little girls are into nowadays are pretty great. My 4 year old wants to be Elsa when she grows up so she can be powerful AND wear fancy dresses. Anna is brave and saves her sister. Moana is fantastic. These princesses are not looking to men to save them and they are charting their own courses, and that's what I want my daughter AND my son to learn. BTW, I'm wearing all pink today and I work in finance - it's just a pretty color and we all deserve pretty colors in our lives.
Anonymous
Post 11/03/2021 12:32     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Mad props to all the dissenters from OP on this thread. We’ve come a long way from when I first started reading DCUM 15 years ago. Internalized misogyny and fear of traditionally feminine things is being rooted out at long last amongst educated parents and I am HERE FOR IT.


It's definitely been a journey. This will sound silly but you know what really helped to bring this home for me when I was a young feminist? The movie Legally Blonde. That movie is actually really transgressive, or was when it came out, because a core theme of the movie was that femininity does not equal stupidity or vapidity. You can be ultra feminine AND smart AND competent. You can dress up as a princess on Halloween and then go kick butt at school and that's not weird.

But the anti-pink, anti-princess crowd is surprisingly robust. I'm in a moms group and there are a couple moms of daughters who say stuff like "Larla said she wanted a pink coat this year and I don't know where she gets these idea!" Fortunately, there are a few of us willing to speak up and say "...because she likes pink? What is wrong with that?" But it's still disappointing to hear people talk like this. As though a 4 yr old who loves dinosaurs and the color green is somehow doing better at life than one who loves princesses and pink. I mean really, folks, what the heck. These are children.


Ha I was always a girly girl cheerleader and sorority girl etc., and am a scientist who had full scholarships. All of my similar friends are very successful in all kinds of traditional and non professions. You can, indeed, embrace fashion and all that and still be intelligent and accomplished. The idea that you could not is so wildly limited and offensive I can’t believe it’s hung on as long as it has.
Anonymous
Post 11/03/2021 12:29     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Am I a bad person that I have a visceral reaction when I see girls in traditional princess costumes? If they’re non-traditional like Mulan or Leia (ie people who actually DO something) I’m okay with it. Even the Frozen princesses who are so popular nowadays seem to just exist to be blonde and pretty. Btw I have a 5yo and so far we’ve been doing creative/neutral costumes like doctor or monkey, but she’s starting to get influenced by her K classmates :-/


I don’t think you are a bad person, but it is bad. You may want to think about getting therapy to understand why it bothers you so much.


Oh I know why it bothers me - because I respect (and want DD to emulate) people who do things rather than people who are just pretty. Same reason I prefer Elena Kagan to Kim Kardashian. But yes, I should recognize it’s a phase, likely fueled by peer pressure, and has little bearing on future interests.


I am no Kim Kardashian fan but you are being unfair. She is doing something, like running her business and going to law school!


Little kids don't understand who Elena Kagan is. When I see a kid dressed like RBG I assume the parents played a heavy hand in that choice to get the social media points with their like minded obnoxious friends, that's your own peer pressure you're caving to. Maybe get a back bone? Most kids pick costume themes that are relevant to their small world. Super heroes, cartoon characters, Disney princesses, Lego, firemen, video game characters, etc etc. They are pretending and playing dress up. Why quash that bit of fun because it's not progressive enough or won't impress your friends? Let them be kids. Mine went as a cheerleader and a knight. They picked out their own costumes and had a blast wearing them.


SAME. I strongly dislike seeing kids acting as props for their parents. The total opposite of progressive.
Anonymous
Post 11/03/2021 12:25     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
Anonymous wrote:Mad props to all the dissenters from OP on this thread. We’ve come a long way from when I first started reading DCUM 15 years ago. Internalized misogyny and fear of traditionally feminine things is being rooted out at long last amongst educated parents and I am HERE FOR IT.


It's definitely been a journey. This will sound silly but you know what really helped to bring this home for me when I was a young feminist? The movie Legally Blonde. That movie is actually really transgressive, or was when it came out, because a core theme of the movie was that femininity does not equal stupidity or vapidity. You can be ultra feminine AND smart AND competent. You can dress up as a princess on Halloween and then go kick butt at school and that's not weird.

But the anti-pink, anti-princess crowd is surprisingly robust. I'm in a moms group and there are a couple moms of daughters who say stuff like "Larla said she wanted a pink coat this year and I don't know where she gets these idea!" Fortunately, there are a few of us willing to speak up and say "...because she likes pink? What is wrong with that?" But it's still disappointing to hear people talk like this. As though a 4 yr old who loves dinosaurs and the color green is somehow doing better at life than one who loves princesses and pink. I mean really, folks, what the heck. These are children.
Anonymous
Post 11/03/2021 12:22     Subject: Re:Girls in princess costumes
Anonymous wrote:You are imposing a crap ton of your own issues on very small children (including probably your daughter).

First of all, you don't even know how these kids think about these things. For a lot of little girls, dressing as a princess or whatever for Halloween is just an opportunity to wear something fun and elaborate that they don't get to wear everyday. A lot of kids don't think they are actually *becoming* whatever they are dressed as. I saw a bunch of little kids dressed as cars for halloween this year (fire trucks, police cars, bull dozers, for instance). If you see that, do you think "oh no does that child think fire trucks are sentient? doesn't he understand that a police car is problematic in 2021?" Because... that would be dumb. That kid is just thinking "trucks are cool! I'm a truck!"

Same with little girls and princess stuff. They are not thinking "I want to be a princess who stuff happens to and has limited personal agency and the purpose of looking pretty!" They just think "Pink! ruffles! lace! fun!" And in their minds, those princesses probably do things. These kids are getting all the empowerment messages all the time. But for god's sake, please let them just make their own choices and have fun. Halloween is supposed to be enjoyable for kids.

Also you might want to consider that you have some internalized misogyny that makes you reject things that are overtly feminine, and ask yourself why. Do you have this same reaction when little boys dress up as pirates or ninjas for halloween? Do you think they too should dress up as doctors, since pirates and ninjas are violent? Or is it just little girls dressed in fancy princess clothes that irk you. Think on it.


All of this.
Anonymous
Post 11/03/2021 12:16     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
Anonymous wrote:I don’t get why dinosaurs are strong and interesting but unicorns are weak and people judge little girls for them. This whole argument against little girls is sexist.

My dd loves anything with pink, sparkles or a tutu. She’s very extra and it fits her personality. Ds is into purple, dinosaurs and wears a hood everywhere he goes. He’s grumpier and doesn’t want attention.


+1

I'm a 41 year old woman with a graduate degree and I would rather dress up as a sparkly princess than OP's suggestions of "doctor" or "monkey". There's nothing wrong with those costumes but the appeal of dressing up as a princess is so obvious and telling kids they shouldn't feel that way is messed up. Which, for the record, is what people tell little boys all the time -- that they should like pink, or princesses, or anything feminine, because so many people have this deeply ingrained idea that feminine things are inferior.

My DD has always been drawn to ultra-girly things. When she was born I dressed her in lots of neutral colored things and kept her room and toys neutral because I didn't want to force pink or super-girly things on her. But it's just what she liked. She mostly gets to pick her own clothes and hairstyles and I'm sure sometimes people who encounter us think "oh that poor child whose mother is forcing that on her" and they have no idea -- it's just what she likes! I pulled out a hat for her to wear this morning since it's cold but it was gray and she would not put it on. I finally found a "pink pussy hat" my mom knitted for the women's march back in 2017 and she wore that, lol. Was it what I would pick? Nope. But she felt good and her ears were warm and the rest doesn't matter.
Anonymous
Post 11/03/2021 12:13     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
Mad props to all the dissenters from OP on this thread. We’ve come a long way from when I first started reading DCUM 15 years ago. Internalized misogyny and fear of traditionally feminine things is being rooted out at long last amongst educated parents and I am HERE FOR IT.
Anonymous
Post 11/03/2021 12:08     Subject: Girls in princess costumes
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why we have to shit on little girls for liking the things that they like


For progressive street cred, of course.



Or why we accept that things traditionally associated with feminity are shittable and all things traditionally associated with masculinity and/or extreme professions are bad ass when girls take them on. My girl can be a ballet dancer. Those women are athletes, btw. She can be a gardener. She could, gasp, be a waitress. She’s not my street cred, or a badge of how educated and progressive I am. She’s her own person.