Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 18:41     Subject: Re:The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
Anonymous wrote:Work is far from the only reason I live in DC. It's baffling to me that folks are like "well I don't have to work in an office anymore, so I'll go live in Frederick." Like, don't you have friends? A social life?

I love the community I have here and I would not be able to replicate it in Frederick in a million years.

I know it’s a generalization, but I think a lot of the people (myself included) who are moving to the exurbs now that we don’t have to be in a DC office 5 days a week have a community that is largely wrapped up in our kids. That community will be replicated anywhere we move because the kids will go to new schools, we will meet the kids parents, etc. The dramatic difference in housing prospects also can’t be underestimated. The 750k house that we are buying in the exurbs would cost 1.5 million or more here. It’s just people in completely different life phases and/or with different priorities. Some people think walkability is non-negotiable, and I could not care less about it. I couldn’t handle being crammed into a 1500 sq ft house with my 2 kids and DH any longer, some people find that absurd. To each their own. But DC will be back, the interns and new graduates will return to the city (just as I came after college) and help pump up the economy again, and when they are ready to leave the city won’t miss a beat because there will be a new group ready to replace them. If DC wants to hold on to a portion of those people as they get older and have families though, they might want to address some of the quality of life issues that a 22 year old isn’t much concerned with.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 18:20     Subject: The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
The reason DC is in trouble is not because families are fleeing or because people can now work remotely. Though, that certainly will hurt. No, the reason the DC economy is in trouble is because Pre-covid on a weekly basis almost year round, tens of thousands of people traveled to DC for lobbying fly-ins. On any given week on the Hill you could have hundreds of realtors, or optometrists, or accountants, or the teamsters, or whoever in town for democracy in action. These folks packed the bars and restaurants, took Ubers, sold out entire hotels, and occasionally made bad decisions and needed criminal lawyers. That’s all gone. It’s not coming back. Certainly not at the scale it once did. Once we come off the sugar high of federal bailout money, downtown DC is in for a reckoning. The hip neighborhood bars on U Street will be fine, for a while. But we’re all going to feel it.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 18:13     Subject: The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I haven't read every single reply, but one issue is traffic. I work downtown and most of my colleagues do want to be back in person at least half-time. But we don't *have* to be back in person. And right now the traffic into DC is really lousy because the DC government is more concerned with bike lanes and giving NWDC residents free street parking than in winning back office workers.

As long as I have to sit in a nightmare of 2 lanes on Conn Ave to get home at night, why should I bother? I can just meet colleagues for lunch when we want to have informal opportunities to interact. Some degree of personal flexibility on telework is now the norm for a lot of people, including many more USG offices than was previously the case. So if DC wants to ensure businesses thrive downtown, they'll have to make it worth our while. Revert to pre-Covid commuter traffic (including re-opening Beach Drive and the 4-lane rush hour switch on Conn Ave) and you'll get more of us back in the office and spending money at DC restaurants and shops.


DC resident here. We don't care what you think. You don't even pay DC taxes -- you don't own a home here and DC can't impose a commuter tax. You're a drain on our resources, not a net gain, and we don't care if you or your stinking car ever come back.

You're the perfect combination of a stubborn refusal to listen to any opposing viewpoints, and utmost certainty of your own.

I'm surprised you're not a Trump voter.


The Trump voters live in the suburbs. Now, tell me again why we should care about some commuter who doesn't set a foot into this city when she's not working and paying us zero dollars in taxes and doesn't know a thing about us other than her commute?

Because, you simpleton, your image of commuters leaving DC as soon as their workday is done is not based on reality. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Commuters do things like go out to happy hours with co-workers, dinners with friends, sporting events etc. And, if their view of DC is positive, they'll come into the District on weekends.

I say this as somebody who worked for a DC government development agency. DC can't impose a commuter tax, so it needs to make the District an attractive place to work, shop, and play. The District's fiscal stability is heavily tied to commuters. We've seen what happens to the District when suburban residents decide that the District is not an attractive place to spend their time and money, and it ain't pretty.

If you were smart, you'd want people from outside of DC to spend as much of their time and money as possible in the District.


Oh, please. How often does the average commuter living in the suburbs stay in town for happy hours and dinners or sporting events? I lived in a close-in suburb for 20+ years and worked downtown and almost never did, and I'm social. Most folks couldn't wait to get home.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 17:21     Subject: Re:The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
Anonymous wrote:Work is far from the only reason I live in DC. It's baffling to me that folks are like "well I don't have to work in an office anymore, so I'll go live in Frederick." Like, don't you have friends? A social life?

I love the community I have here and I would not be able to replicate it in Frederick in a million years.


It’s pretty obvious from this website that most posters don’t have friends!
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 17:19     Subject: Re:The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
Work is far from the only reason I live in DC. It's baffling to me that folks are like "well I don't have to work in an office anymore, so I'll go live in Frederick." Like, don't you have friends? A social life?

I love the community I have here and I would not be able to replicate it in Frederick in a million years.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 17:03     Subject: The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's sad that I'd actually thought that DCUM would offer some useful perspectives on the article, like it used to in the early years. Unfortunately, this thread is full of drivel and vitriol, like most these days.

There are 1-2 posters on this thread who don't want to listen to any opposing viewpoint. When people bring up the quality of life issues that have gotten noticeably worse during the pandemic, they scoff and act smug.

But, what the last couple of generations have shown us is that cities can reach tipping points pretty quickly, if things like crime, homelessness, and bad schools spiral out of control. And, people now have a lot of options as to where they can live and get the "urban" experience in the region. DC is competing for residents with all of the neighboring jurisdictions. And the government and business community is nowhere near as blase about it as some of the fools on this thread. They know the District is facing some hard problems.


Do you live in DC?

Yes, since 2002. In a neighborhood that's pretty much immune to DC's problems. But that doesn't mean I can't see what's happening in other parts of the District.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 17:01     Subject: The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I haven't read every single reply, but one issue is traffic. I work downtown and most of my colleagues do want to be back in person at least half-time. But we don't *have* to be back in person. And right now the traffic into DC is really lousy because the DC government is more concerned with bike lanes and giving NWDC residents free street parking than in winning back office workers.

As long as I have to sit in a nightmare of 2 lanes on Conn Ave to get home at night, why should I bother? I can just meet colleagues for lunch when we want to have informal opportunities to interact. Some degree of personal flexibility on telework is now the norm for a lot of people, including many more USG offices than was previously the case. So if DC wants to ensure businesses thrive downtown, they'll have to make it worth our while. Revert to pre-Covid commuter traffic (including re-opening Beach Drive and the 4-lane rush hour switch on Conn Ave) and you'll get more of us back in the office and spending money at DC restaurants and shops.


DC resident here. We don't care what you think. You don't even pay DC taxes -- you don't own a home here and DC can't impose a commuter tax. You're a drain on our resources, not a net gain, and we don't care if you or your stinking car ever come back.

You're the perfect combination of a stubborn refusal to listen to any opposing viewpoints, and utmost certainty of your own.

I'm surprised you're not a Trump voter.


The Trump voters live in the suburbs. Now, tell me again why we should care about some commuter who doesn't set a foot into this city when she's not working and paying us zero dollars in taxes and doesn't know a thing about us other than her commute?

Because, you simpleton, your image of commuters leaving DC as soon as their workday is done is not based on reality. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Commuters do things like go out to happy hours with co-workers, dinners with friends, sporting events etc. And, if their view of DC is positive, they'll come into the District on weekends.

I say this as somebody who worked for a DC government development agency. DC can't impose a commuter tax, so it needs to make the District an attractive place to work, shop, and play. The District's fiscal stability is heavily tied to commuters. We've seen what happens to the District when suburban residents decide that the District is not an attractive place to spend their time and money, and it ain't pretty.

If you were smart, you'd want people from outside of DC to spend as much of their time and money as possible in the District.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 16:53     Subject: The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I haven't read every single reply, but one issue is traffic. I work downtown and most of my colleagues do want to be back in person at least half-time. But we don't *have* to be back in person. And right now the traffic into DC is really lousy because the DC government is more concerned with bike lanes and giving NWDC residents free street parking than in winning back office workers.

As long as I have to sit in a nightmare of 2 lanes on Conn Ave to get home at night, why should I bother? I can just meet colleagues for lunch when we want to have informal opportunities to interact. Some degree of personal flexibility on telework is now the norm for a lot of people, including many more USG offices than was previously the case. So if DC wants to ensure businesses thrive downtown, they'll have to make it worth our while. Revert to pre-Covid commuter traffic (including re-opening Beach Drive and the 4-lane rush hour switch on Conn Ave) and you'll get more of us back in the office and spending money at DC restaurants and shops.


DC resident here. We don't care what you think. You don't even pay DC taxes -- you don't own a home here and DC can't impose a commuter tax. You're a drain on our resources, not a net gain, and we don't care if you or your stinking car ever come back.

You're the perfect combination of a stubborn refusal to listen to any opposing viewpoints, and utmost certainty of your own.

I'm surprised you're not a Trump voter.


"Is my wasteful, car-based lifestyle out of touch?"

"No, it's the city that I don't live in and don't pay taxes to that doesn't want to subsidize my personal convenience that's wrong."

Sigh, you're such a child, that I'll try and use short words.

The District needs people to commute in and do things like shop at stores, eat at restaurants, and do all of the other basic stuff that makes a city viable. The number of restaurants, nightspots and the like that exist in DC are based around the idea that hundreds of thousands of people from outside of the District commute here every day. If those commuters, or a big chunk of them, never return, the effects on businesses and the tax base would be severe.

Thankfully, there are intelligent, realistic people in DC government and business that are working on this issue. So, let the adults talk and things will hopefully work out.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 16:41     Subject: The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The underlying issue is that office and hotel uses took a huge hit during covid, and that is what makes up downtown DC. We don’t have a huge residential or industrial base like many cities.


It’s THIS. I assume the DC cheerleaders haven’t lived in a city like NY or LA so they aren’t able to recognize the difference.


I lived in NY, East Harlem and Astoria Queens to be exact. That was when I was young and felt invincible. Yeah, I prefer DC over NYC. NYC however is a great place to visit with good eats and arts,
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 16:41     Subject: Re:The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m not surprised that DC has been hit harder than other cities.

There are many people who live in NY, LA, SF etc because they are world class cities and have a lot to offer.

Most people live in DC because of....work. Now there have been shifts in work structures that will likely result in a portion of DC office workers having a hybrid or fully remote work arrangement. I don’t see these people staying chained to DC like I might expect someone to still stay in NY or LA.

On top of that, add in the high COL, social unrest, homeless people and crime. DC is on the decline. It’s pretty easy to figure this out. Now see what happens with a government shutdown!

spoken like someone who has never lived in the district.


NP. PP is completely right about most people living in DC bc of work. Work was the only thing tying me to DC. Once given the option to telework 100%, I was outta DC so fast you wouldn't believe it. Many of my friends did the same.
I am mid 30s married with a young toddler and used to live in Logan/Shaw. Thrilled for the opportunity to not be tethered to DC anymore.


Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't know that you personally are "most people."
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 16:40     Subject: The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
Anonymous wrote:I've read this entire thread, and what leaps off the screen to me is this: None of you actually lives downtown.

Well, I do -- and I have since Sharon Pratt Kelly was the mayor while Marion Barry was "on vacation." And when I mean, "downtown," I mean, walk out the back entrance of my apartment building, take two big steps to the corner, and with a really good throw, get a tennis ball to land, bounce, bounce, bounce, and come to a stop in the newly-reopened Franklin Park.

So, with that, stop with all the downtown is a ghost town nonsense. It's not. Last spring, that was a ghost town. There's pedestrian and vehicular traffic again. I can't just stroll across Connecticut Avenue anymore without looking. (Because I walk to work downtown. Yes, I go to the office. Regularly. Never stopped, actually.) I could do that through last September. No more. Yes, bars have closed, but the buffet that caters to the business lunchtime crowd is open. (I went today. Yes, I know, OMG!!!! Buffets during COVID. Yeah, well, I went on the Metro, too. And I'm going to a bar tonight.) Even the hot dog vendor is back. In terms of activity, I would say things are about 60% of what they were downtown. Not dead, but certainly not what it used to be.

As for the rental market, my apartment building is fairly nice by Washington standards. We have a pool, a gym, a parking garage, and bugs every flippin' summer. This place cleared out late spring last year. Easily forty percent vacant at its peak. All the kids went home, either because of school or because they could telework and live more cheaply back home. And it wasn't just my building. Up and down the street, buildings were offering crazy promotions to entice new tenants. I should know: I moved to another apartment within my building and got months of free rent and parking and below-market rent.

Today, the kids have returned, but not all of them. The childless married folks, they stayed. The childless singletons, they're mostly back home. Maybe, for good. Yes, restaurants are open and there's stuff to do, but winter is a-coming. Who wants to huddle outside with more restrictions when there aren't any back in Ohio? Who wants to wear a mask inside all the damn time? Don't have to do that in Virginia . . . .

Landlords are caught in a tough spot. That housing deficit yadda yadda? That does not apply downtown. There are plenty of vacancies. Landlords desperately need tenants, but being honest here, rent payments are kinda voluntary, and everyone knows it. Evictions aren't coming out of landlord-tenant court anytime soon. (Forget that December lifting of the stay. That's totally being extended.)

I'll just leave this here and let all y'all in Upper Northwest keep talking about my neighborhood. It's really entertaining.

Thanks for the post.

I work at 17th and H and I think this area and around Farragut Square, may be a little more heavily impacted. Before COVID it is was probably the busiest daytime area in DC. Now it’s not even 20% and that’s with the GW students that wander over here. Not a single food truck has returned and with good reason, because if you want a lunchtime table at Teaism you can choose from all of them. This time of year The Exchange would typically be packed with happy hour kickballers, but covid might have killed that whole industry. Car traffic is ridiculously light. You should see the deals on early bird parking. It will be interesting to see what happens next.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 16:30     Subject: Re:The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m not surprised that DC has been hit harder than other cities.

There are many people who live in NY, LA, SF etc because they are world class cities and have a lot to offer.

Most people live in DC because of....work. Now there have been shifts in work structures that will likely result in a portion of DC office workers having a hybrid or fully remote work arrangement. I don’t see these people staying chained to DC like I might expect someone to still stay in NY or LA.

On top of that, add in the high COL, social unrest, homeless people and crime. DC is on the decline. It’s pretty easy to figure this out. Now see what happens with a government shutdown!

spoken like someone who has never lived in the district.


NP. PP is completely right about most people living in DC bc of work. Work was the only thing tying me to DC. Once given the option to telework 100%, I was outta DC so fast you wouldn't believe it. Many of my friends did the same.
I am mid 30s married with a young toddler and used to live in Logan/Shaw. Thrilled for the opportunity to not be tethered to DC anymore.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 15:56     Subject: The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
I've read this entire thread, and what leaps off the screen to me is this: None of you actually lives downtown.

Well, I do -- and I have since Sharon Pratt Kelly was the mayor while Marion Barry was "on vacation." And when I mean, "downtown," I mean, walk out the back entrance of my apartment building, take two big steps to the corner, and with a really good throw, get a tennis ball to land, bounce, bounce, bounce, and come to a stop in the newly-reopened Franklin Park.

So, with that, stop with all the downtown is a ghost town nonsense. It's not. Last spring, that was a ghost town. There's pedestrian and vehicular traffic again. I can't just stroll across Connecticut Avenue anymore without looking. (Because I walk to work downtown. Yes, I go to the office. Regularly. Never stopped, actually.) I could do that through last September. No more. Yes, bars have closed, but the buffet that caters to the business lunchtime crowd is open. (I went today. Yes, I know, OMG!!!! Buffets during COVID. Yeah, well, I went on the Metro, too. And I'm going to a bar tonight.) Even the hot dog vendor is back. In terms of activity, I would say things are about 60% of what they were downtown. Not dead, but certainly not what it used to be.

As for the rental market, my apartment building is fairly nice by Washington standards. We have a pool, a gym, a parking garage, and bugs every flippin' summer. This place cleared out late spring last year. Easily forty percent vacant at its peak. All the kids went home, either because of school or because they could telework and live more cheaply back home. And it wasn't just my building. Up and down the street, buildings were offering crazy promotions to entice new tenants. I should know: I moved to another apartment within my building and got months of free rent and parking and below-market rent.

Today, the kids have returned, but not all of them. The childless married folks, they stayed. The childless singletons, they're mostly back home. Maybe, for good. Yes, restaurants are open and there's stuff to do, but winter is a-coming. Who wants to huddle outside with more restrictions when there aren't any back in Ohio? Who wants to wear a mask inside all the damn time? Don't have to do that in Virginia . . . .

Landlords are caught in a tough spot. That housing deficit yadda yadda? That does not apply downtown. There are plenty of vacancies. Landlords desperately need tenants, but being honest here, rent payments are kinda voluntary, and everyone knows it. Evictions aren't coming out of landlord-tenant court anytime soon. (Forget that December lifting of the stay. That's totally being extended.)

I'll just leave this here and let all y'all in Upper Northwest keep talking about my neighborhood. It's really entertaining.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 15:53     Subject: The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't assume childless high earners are going to shut up and accept living in a city in decline. Eventually you get sick of having your packages stolen all the time, having a local gov that is unresponsive and works against your safety interests (Charles Allen), having a uniquely horrible USPS problems in DC proper, having homeless encampments everywhere, seeing drugged out zombies loitering near your library, fearing that your car wheels are going to come off overnight, etc. You don't even realize how this all weighs you down until you have a few months away from it all.

Let's see how it all shakes out over the next couple years. Telework is here to stay. I don't know how that would NOT create an impact on the downtown long term. There's less incentive to put up with the above nonsense when you can commute 1-2 days a week.


Sorry, but these singles are bored stiff when they get out to the 'burbs or the sticks. It's one thing to spend a month at the beach in the summer.....but it's A LOT more isolating to spend the year there. The young & childless crave socialization and that doesn't happen in a meaningful way outside the cities.

DC, NYC, LA, Boston, Chicago, etc has ALWAYS had homeless, drugged out mental cases, and petty theft. It's a part of city life, even if unsavory and undesired. These complaints have been on Popville for the last 15 years.

As we say: "Welcome to the city, transplant."

The young and childless will keep coming here. Those with means will insulate themselves in nice parts of NW DC, MoCo, and NoVA. All your complaints have been apart of city living since.....forever.


You sound like the guy defending the motorbikes as a "cultural phenomenon" and trying to show how hip you are by living in a gritty city.
Anonymous
Post 09/29/2021 15:16     Subject: The Pandemic Hit Cities Hard And Then There's Washington, DC
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I haven't read every single reply, but one issue is traffic. I work downtown and most of my colleagues do want to be back in person at least half-time. But we don't *have* to be back in person. And right now the traffic into DC is really lousy because the DC government is more concerned with bike lanes and giving NWDC residents free street parking than in winning back office workers.

As long as I have to sit in a nightmare of 2 lanes on Conn Ave to get home at night, why should I bother? I can just meet colleagues for lunch when we want to have informal opportunities to interact. Some degree of personal flexibility on telework is now the norm for a lot of people, including many more USG offices than was previously the case. So if DC wants to ensure businesses thrive downtown, they'll have to make it worth our while. Revert to pre-Covid commuter traffic (including re-opening Beach Drive and the 4-lane rush hour switch on Conn Ave) and you'll get more of us back in the office and spending money at DC restaurants and shops.


DC resident here. We don't care what you think. You don't even pay DC taxes -- you don't own a home here and DC can't impose a commuter tax. You're a drain on our resources, not a net gain, and we don't care if you or your stinking car ever come back.

You're the perfect combination of a stubborn refusal to listen to any opposing viewpoints, and utmost certainty of your own.

I'm surprised you're not a Trump voter.


The Trump voters live in the suburbs. Now, tell me again why we should care about some commuter who doesn't set a foot into this city when she's not working and paying us zero dollars in taxes and doesn't know a thing about us other than her commute?

Fascinating that you don’t seem to care that neither local businesses leaders nor city officials share that sentiment. As long as life is good for you as a non-working person living in Logan Circle.

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2020/10/02/dc-chamber-report-commuters-economy.html


Not saying I don't care at all. Just saying I don't care about this particular self-entitled poster who thinks her priorities should take precedence over actual residents or else she won't go to Potbelly's. Her chief complaints are that DC cares about bike lanes and parking for city residents. I have a hunch that whatever soulless suburb she lives in cares about those things for local residents, too.

We don't even have the virus behind us yet, and folks are acting like DC is already permanently dead just because some article lamenting Tucker Carlson's move to Florida says things here are gonna be tough. I'm sure they will be for a while, but we will adjust and it will all work out.