Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get why the Duggars went ahead with their public Christian life knowing that they had this skeleton in the closet. I guess they hoped it would never be discovered. The money was too enticing, now they have shamed their whole family all over the world in a case that should have been private. I mean that, when minors do this kind of thing, it should be kept private.
Also, I don't get why people think that strict Christians are more likely to have this happen. Words like repressive are being thrown around. ?
We also are hearing about how women are being repressed. I don'y recall the Duggars telling their sons to go out and have premarital sex.

1. I believe that Josh and his parents thought that once the mistakes were handled, and forgiveness sought and given, that that was it. There was no more fear of a skeleton in the closet because the entire issue was resolved, so why would anyone be interested in it?

2. The Quiverfull movement unfortunately, and other strict fundamentalists, are more likely to have problems with sexual abuse. Because sex, and guarding against it, are a huge part of the lifestyle, as well as for other reasons.

Can someone explain why discouraging pre marital sex leads to sex abuse?

It doesn't. There was far more to the oppressive environment the Duggar children are being raised in.

Story time. I am catholic. Catholic = no premarital sex. My parents asked me to wait until I was an adult to make adult choices like sex and had an open door policy on talking to them about anything. I waited until I married to have sex because it was my choice and I have a very healthy sex life and view on sex 20 years later. We am raising our children the same. I have friends from parochial school that were raised very different. Sex is sin. Sexual thoughts are sin. If a boy wants sex its because your uniform is too tight, too short. Eve was a temptress that brought the fall of man, women are temptresses. Etc. Two of my classmates with parents like these were having sex at 12 with high school boys. Another was pregnant at 14, because she had never been told where babies come from. Including fondling your siblings, especially if you have very little interaction with anyone except your own family. Teenagers have hormones and curiosity about sex, adding in all of the fear and guilt and shame may well lead to poor choices surrounding sex.

Anonymous wrote:

Also, I don't get why people think that strict Christians are more likely to have this happen.

Its the misogyny that enables it. The repression may make the males more likely to commit this but its the messaging about unquestionable male dominance and women existing to serve and obey men that creates the real danger.

Quiverfull prescribes extreme patriarchy. A women has no rights. She can not say no. She is must obey her father, husband and male relatives. She is seen as the temptress. If an abuser is present, she has been conditioned that she must submit to his authority and the fault lies with her for tempting him into the situation.

I see some parallels between Quiverfull and Roman Catholicism. I'm a former Catholic DD raised by a traditional, preVaticanII, Jesuit-educated father. In my childhood, there was very much a patriarchal , misogynistic attitude that if you had a concern or a problem of most any kind, you needed to go to Confession and /or talk things over with a priest. The priest would absolve you of your sins or proffer advice and wisdom and you'd best take heed. Not a lot of room for questioning or intellectual discourse or nuances. I was always loathe to give anyone that much authority, but most especially a Catholic priest. Not my dad and others of his age; the priest is the moral compass.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP -- the Duggars are heartbroken this happened and they dealt with it in a dignified and responsible manner. the way they handled it allowed their family to survive. Josh has not re-offended. The sisters seem okay. Josh also survived and has a family of his own. What -- he should be thrown in jail for life? Killed? What?


What the heck is it that you all want from this family?

It is as if you are all saying - ha ha ha they are a bunch of idiots and deserve all this.

Bad stuff happens in the best of families.

This family handled it well.


Leave them alone.

They handled it well, huh? Seriously, all the discussion about religion and political involvement avoids the central question. If someone molested your daughter would you think it sufficient for that person to go work construction for a few months and get a stern talking to? If you separate out everything else and answer that question honestly I think you will see beyond the noise and understand what the furor is all about.

I would like to hear one supporter answer that question honestly.

Has any of the supporters answered this question yet?

I do not consider myself a supporter, but the problem I see here is that the "someone" is also their 14 year old child, who they also presumably love and care about. I can see what an awful difficult position it would be. For example, I would want professional counseling for all, but would know that it could result in my child being charged with a crime, going to jail, or facing a lifetime of public registration as a sex offender. I'm not saying what they did was right, and I believe I would report it and make the "right"decisions if it were me. But I still see that it is a tough situation to be the parent of both the victims and the perpetrator.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend posted a very articulate criticism of the Duggars and their handling of the problem from a Christian viewpoint. The author is very clear about how Christian fundamentalist communities shame and blame the victims.

http://therealrebeccadiamond.com/josh-duggar-and-why-talking-about-it-matters

Is there any evidence that the Duggars shamed the girls?

They clearly encouraged the girls to not talk about it. That is shaming in and of itself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get why the Duggars went ahead with their public Christian life knowing that they had this skeleton in the closet. I guess they hoped it would never be discovered. The money was too enticing, now they have shamed their whole family all over the world in a case that should have been private. I mean that, when minors do this kind of thing, it should be kept private.
Also, I don't get why people think that strict Christians are more likely to have this happen. Words like repressive are being thrown around. ?
We also are hearing about how women are being repressed. I don'y recall the Duggars telling their sons to go out and have premarital sex.

1. I believe that Josh and his parents thought that once the mistakes were handled, and forgiveness sought and given, that that was it. There was no more fear of a skeleton in the closet because the entire issue was resolved, so why would anyone be interested in it?

2. The Quiverfull movement unfortunately, and other strict fundamentalists, are more likely to have problems with sexual abuse. Because sex, and guarding against it, are a huge part of the lifestyle, as well as for other reasons.

Can someone explain why discouraging pre marital sex leads to sex abuse?

Because sexuality is a basic component of human personality and sexual desire is a core drive. When people hit puberty, they want to have sex. They are curious and will experiment. If you suppress it, it will just come out in inappropriate ways. Either marry them off young (17-18) or let them have premarital sexual relationships.

I was not allowed to have sex at puberty, nor will I allow my children to do so (partly because I don't think children should be having sex). Anyway, there are tons of kids who get the drive, but the parents around them often steer them in another direction, which is fine.

Anonymous wrote:A friend posted a very articulate criticism of the Duggars and their handling of the problem from a Christian viewpoint. The author is very clear about how Christian fundamentalist communities shame and blame the victims.

http://therealrebeccadiamond.com/josh-duggar-and-why-talking-about-it-matters

Is there any evidence that the Duggars shamed the girls?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing that politicians are defending him. Would they also have defended him if he had raped them?

Raped? You need to stop being outrageous. Not a word to make light of.

It is a valid question.

Since you seem to have trouble with reading comprehension allow me to help by posting this again, read slowly.

"It's amazing that politicians are defending him. Would they also have defended him if he had raped them?"

A friend posted a very articulate criticism of the Duggars and their handling of the problem from a Christian viewpoint. The author is very clear about how Christian fundamentalist communities shame and blame the victims.

http://therealrebeccadiamond.com/josh-duggar-and-why-talking-about-it-matters

Also, I don't get why people think that strict Christians are more likely to have this happen.

Its the misogyny that enables it. The repression may make the males more likely to commit this but its the messaging about unquestionable male dominance and women existing to serve and obey men that creates the real danger.

Quiverfull prescribes extreme patriarchy. A women has no rights. She can not say no. She is must obey her father, husband and male relatives. She is seen as the temptress. If an abuser is present, she has been conditioned that she must submit to his authority and the fault lies with her for tempting him into the situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get why the Duggars went ahead with their public Christian life knowing that they had this skeleton in the closet. I guess they hoped it would never be discovered. The money was too enticing, now they have shamed their whole family all over the world in a case that should have been private. I mean that, when minors do this kind of thing, it should be kept private.
Also, I don't get why people think that strict Christians are more likely to have this happen. Words like repressive are being thrown around. ?
We also are hearing about how women are being repressed. I don'y recall the Duggars telling their sons to go out and have premarital sex.

1. I believe that Josh and his parents thought that once the mistakes were handled, and forgiveness sought and given, that that was it. There was no more fear of a skeleton in the closet because the entire issue was resolved, so why would anyone be interested in it?

2. The Quiverfull movement unfortunately, and other strict fundamentalists, are more likely to have problems with sexual abuse. Because sex, and guarding against it, are a huge part of the lifestyle, as well as for other reasons.

Can someone explain why discouraging pre marital sex leads to sex abuse?

Because sexuality is a basic component of human personality and sexual desire is a core drive. When people hit puberty, they want to have sex. They are curious and will experiment. If you suppress it, it will just come out in inappropriate ways. Either marry them off young (17-18) or let them have premarital sexual relationships.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you to everyone helping me in the facts thread!

Please comment here though, one troll already popped over there and that is for discussing and posting news and information. It is why we asked for it.

Thanks

Thank YOU, Smear Campaign chairwoman and control freak.

exactly!!

You know, those of you defending the Duggars should post all the articles in defense of them in the news thread, that is what it is for.


Oh...right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get why the Duggars went ahead with their public Christian life knowing that they had this skeleton in the closet. I guess they hoped it would never be discovered. The money was too enticing, now they have shamed their whole family all over the world in a case that should have been private. I mean that, when minors do this kind of thing, it should be kept private.
Also, I don't get why people think that strict Christians are more likely to have this happen. Words like repressive are being thrown around. ?
We also are hearing about how women are being repressed. I don'y recall the Duggars telling their sons to go out and have premarital sex.

1. I believe that Josh and his parents thought that once the mistakes were handled, and forgiveness sought and given, that that was it. There was no more fear of a skeleton in the closet because the entire issue was resolved, so why would anyone be interested in it?

2. The Quiverfull movement unfortunately, and other strict fundamentalists, are more likely to have problems with sexual abuse. Because sex, and guarding against it, are a huge part of the lifestyle, as well as for other reasons.

Can someone explain why discouraging pre marital sex leads to sex abuse?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing that politicians are defending him. Would they also have defended him if he had raped them?

Raped? You need to stop being outrageous. Not a word to make light of.

I don't think this person is "making light of" rape. In addition, Josh was 4 years old, what he did would be considered rape.

By who?

Sorry, hit send without reading.... Should have said "In addition, if Josh was 18 years old, what he did could be considered rape."

Anonymous wrote:I don't get why the Duggars went ahead with their public Christian life knowing that they had this skeleton in the closet. I guess they hoped it would never be discovered. The money was too enticing, now they have shamed their whole family all over the world in a case that should have been private. I mean that, when minors do this kind of thing, it should be kept private.
Also, I don't get why people think that strict Christians are more likely to have this happen. Words like repressive are being thrown around. ?
We also are hearing about how women are being repressed. I don'y recall the Duggars telling their sons to go out and have premarital sex.

1. I believe that Josh and his parents thought that once the mistakes were handled, and forgiveness sought and given, that that was it. There was no more fear of a skeleton in the closet because the entire issue was resolved, so why would anyone be interested in it?

2. The Quiverfull movement unfortunately, and other strict fundamentalists, are more likely to have problems with sexual abuse. Because sex, and guarding against it, are a huge part of the lifestyle, as well as for other reasons.

I don't get why the Duggars went ahead with their public Christian life knowing that they had this skeleton in the closet. I guess they hoped it would never be discovered. The money was too enticing, now they have shamed their whole family all over the world in a case that should have been private. I mean that, when minors do this kind of thing, it should be kept private.
Also, I don't get why people think that strict Christians are more likely to have this happen. Words like repressive are being thrown around. ?
We also are hearing about how women are being repressed. I don'y recall the Duggars telling their sons to go out and have premarital sex.