Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is having fun flaming this family, which I think is unfair.
The son is not sick. He was misguided and probably had a normal curiosity that teen boys have.Many kids have played these types of games, but in his case, it was not a game since the victims did not have equal power. He was a minor as were his victims. His parents took action (in their own way). All families have issues.
If I had to bet, easily 40% of our sons will/would act out in a bizarre sexual way if not properly educated (are you educating your sons and daughters?)

So "normal curiosity" in teen boys means fondling their sisters' vaginas and breasts? Is that what you reqally mean to say?

Living in such a sexually repressive household and culture, yes. Where masterbation, sex before marriage and what he did is on equal footing, yes.

There's no indication that any other brothers in the family molested their sisters.

Probably because the parents had a wake up call with Josh. We teach our kids not to be victims, but we don't teach them not to be perpetrators mostly because we assume our kids could never....I am not stupid, I will tell my kids what they should NEVER do. The Duggars aren't the only ones who make mistakes like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If that 14 year old was yours, or your best friend's kid, my how quickly things would change here. Even if the victim was also your flesh and blood.

I doubt you'd be looking for our advice here.

Nobody's looking for advice here. We're debating a public family's choices, after they chose to make themselves public by putting themselves and their children on television for years and years, and capitalizing on it. Apples and oranges my dear.

You mean like the Sandberg family?

I'm not sure her husband was as public as she was. She wrote a book. He was simply a high-powered CEO. And debating choices imminently following a death is pecking at a carcass that's still steaming on the side of the road. But sure, if it makes you feel better, they're the same.

Adding that if it turned out they were total frauds after parading around in public, even more the same.

I haven't posted on this thread, and I've only read about 70 of the ~90 pages.

I don't like the Duggars. I find their religion to be intolerant and oppressive, and speak from some second-hand experience as a good friend of someone who is, as they say, No Longer Quivering. I think that the advocacy that the family has done against the human rights of gay people and transgender people is despicable and that Jesus would be appalled. But this is America and they're allowed to practice their religion just the same as I'm allowed to practice mine and it doesn't matter if I like them or not.

I am a counselor and a parent, though, and I appreciate the difficult position they found themselves in when they discovered this. Josh is their child too, and "Turn him in to the police" is not the easiest thing to do when you are interested in protecting all of your children. I know in my heart that if I found myself in the same page as Mr. and Mrs. Duggar, I would've first protected the children who had been victimized. I would've sought out counseling for them - real counseling, administered by a licensed professional. However, I don't know how I would provide sensitive, respectful care to this family, though, given their particular beliefs about sexual power balances. I don't know how to counsel a victim of sexual assault that she is not to blame for her victimization when every moral message she has ever received is that she is responsible for the sexual urges of others because of what she wears, how she moves, etc. I don't know how to counsel a perpetrator who may not have had any real understanding of how wrong what he did was, when every moral message he has ever received is that he is in power, that women are to be submissive, that consent is really "if he wants it to happen, it will happen."

As a parent, I cannot imagine seeking out a program that would blame my daughter for her abuse.

The other problem is that it didn't stop there. The family has used their moral framework to accrue a significant amount of wealth. They support politicians who share or claim to share their beliefs. They use their celebrity to publicize those causes in a variety of ways, including the position that Josh Duggar resigned from last week.

If the goal of the Duggar's public persona is to convert people to their religion and encourage adherence to their lifestyle, based on its purity of spirit, the crimes of Josh Duggar have undermined that message.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If that 14 year old was yours, or your best friend's kid, my how quickly things would change here. Even if the victim was also your flesh and blood.

I doubt you'd be looking for our advice here.

Nobody's looking for advice here. We're debating a public family's choices, after they chose to make themselves public by putting themselves and their children on television for years and years, and capitalizing on it. Apples and oranges my dear.

You mean like the Sandberg family?

I'm not sure her husband was as public as she was. She wrote a book. He was simply a high-powered CEO. And debating choices imminently following a death is pecking at a carcass that's still steaming on the side of the road. But sure, if it makes you feel better, they're the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If that 14 year old was yours, or your best friend's kid, my how quickly things would change here. Even if the victim was also your flesh and blood.

I doubt you'd be looking for our advice here.

Nobody's looking for advice here. We're debating a public family's choices, after they chose to make themselves public by putting themselves and their children on television for years and years, and capitalizing on it. Apples and oranges my dear.

You mean like the Sandberg family?

Anonymous wrote:If that 14 year old was yours, or your best friend's kid, my how quickly things would change here. Even if the victim was also your flesh and blood.

I doubt you'd be looking for our advice here.

Nobody's looking for advice here. We're debating a public family's choices, after they chose to make themselves public by putting themselves and their children on television for years and years, and capitalizing on it. Apples and oranges my dear.

Anonymous wrote:If that 14 year old was yours, or your best friend's kid, my how quickly things would change here. Even if the victim was also your flesh and blood.

I doubt you'd be looking for our advice here.

Not in Entertainment, that's for sure. Because I would never parade my 14-year-old on TV, especially knowing that he was troubled. And that's one of the many difference between us and the Duggars.

If that 14 year old was yours, or your best friend's kid, my how quickly things would change here. Even if the victim was also your flesh and blood.

I doubt you'd be looking for our advice here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"It is horrible. It is a smear campaign simply because they are fundamental Christians and don't support Gay marriage. Who cares if they don't support gay marriage? I don't care. They believe in traditional marriage. This doesn't mean that they are hypocrites or support child molestation. Geez."

PP, it might be a smear campaign, but they have opened their own door there. I've watched the show for the last two seasons, and I was really sort of starting to like them. They seem happy (at least some of them do). If they just left it at a show of one happy huge family, this might be different. But they haven't. They can believe in whatever they want, but they don't leave it there. They lobby with the goal that we should ALL have to live by their beliefs. They are attempting to force their beliefs on everyone else. That's their goal. So that's why they're hypocrites, acting like the gay community are dangerous to children when the only one molesting children from their standpoint is sitting within their own family.

I watched the show too and that is why I am supporting the Duggars. If you actually watch the show, you will see that they are a very nice family and they DO NOT shove their religion down anyone's throat.

They hardly even mention religion on the show. I remember one episode where the father talked to a church and they have featured mission trips to help poor communities in other countries by building stuff for them.

the parents seems sincere and responsible and easy going. The kids are nice. Not to mention they are all very photogenic.

This post is a parody, right?

I'm the PP the Duggar supporter is responding to. I do in fact watch the show because I'm fascinated by them. I said I was beginning to like them, I don't have any animosity toward them for their religious beliefs. But PP, you are way off. Mission trips are exactly about converting people. That's the point of them, so the fact that they're on these trips, they're trying to get people to believe what they believe. You don't honestly think that the help they are (admittedly) giving people doesn't come with a healthy dose of Bible study, do you? And the garden-variety part of the show of them hanging out with other people? They hang out with people who believe exactly what they believe, there's no need to shove anything down anyone's throat. Everyone already drank that Kool-Aid.

But you're right, they are all ridiculously photogenic. I'll give you that one.

Just read another comment elsewhere that the Duggars are "known" (I'm putting that in quotes because I obviously don't know for sure) for going into other churches, mostly evangelical ones, hanging out for a while and getting to know people and then trying to convert people to the quiverfull movement there. That's certainly attempting to shove their views down other people's throats in my book. It wouldn't surprise me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP -- the Duggars are heartbroken this happened and they dealt with it in a dignified and responsible manner. the way they handled it allowed their family to survive. Josh has not re-offended. The sisters seem okay. Josh also survived and has a family of his own. What -- he should be thrown in jail for life? Killed? What?


What the heck is it that you all want from this family?

It is as if you are all saying - ha ha ha they are a bunch of idiots and deserve all this.

Bad stuff happens in the best of families.

This family handled it well.


Leave them alone.

They handled it well, huh? Seriously, all the discussion about religion and political involvement avoids the central question. If someone molested your daughter would you think it sufficient for that person to go work construction for a few months and get a stern talking to? If you separate out everything else and answer that question honestly I think you will see beyond the noise and understand what the furor is all about.

I would like to hear one supporter answer that question honestly.

Has any of the supporters answered this question yet?

I feel like people who try to say anything other than hateful things is called a "supporter." The rational conversation has been abandoned. The issue hasn't been discussed without name-calling or freaking out about their politics or religion. I say this as someone who is exactly the type of person a Duggar would rally against: independent, godless, liberal lesbian.

I am the person who posed that question and I was addressing people who say that the parents already handled it appropriately and that anyone who thinks otherwise just has it in for the Duggars. I posted it because I believe it to be the central question of this "debate" and that everything else is just noise. It seems that this question has been lost in the back and forth accusations.

My step kids were illegally taken from mw &their father after we reported the sexual abuse that the 14 year old boy & 9 year old girl was engaging in. The year old was not willing BTW! Their mother & grandmother was aware of ther abuse for almost 2 years & allowed it to go on!! Because of their friends in the court system & in DCS, we were punished , as was the little girl, for speaking out & demanding the abuse be stopped, charges files against the adults involved & even the boy if appropriate!! We were told we were horrible & our custody was stripped, as well as a "No contact order" put in place against us!! That's been 7 months ago!! We still have never received an answer to why the kids were taken..except.."keep asking questions or talk to anyone else & I will remove your other kids"...that was the judge speaking to us about our youngest 2 (my biological children) We are being punished for what CPS & the world says the Duggars "should have done"!!

So who is in the right? Who is in the wrong??? Im very confused!!!

Anonymous wrote:It says they launching a full investigation into their home. I guess they didn't do a full investigation previously? I can't imagine there isn't a case file on the family already, didn't the police refer them for supervision by social services?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP -- the Duggars are heartbroken this happened and they dealt with it in a dignified and responsible manner. the way they handled it allowed their family to survive. Josh has not re-offended. The sisters seem okay. Josh also survived and has a family of his own. What -- he should be thrown in jail for life? Killed? What?


What the heck is it that you all want from this family?

It is as if you are all saying - ha ha ha they are a bunch of idiots and deserve all this.

Bad stuff happens in the best of families.

This family handled it well.


Leave them alone.

They handled it well, huh? Seriously, all the discussion about religion and political involvement avoids the central question. If someone molested your daughter would you think it sufficient for that person to go work construction for a few months and get a stern talking to? If you separate out everything else and answer that question honestly I think you will see beyond the noise and understand what the furor is all about.

I would like to hear one supporter answer that question honestly.

Has any of the supporters answered this question yet?

I feel like people who try to say anything other than hateful things is called a "supporter." The rational conversation has been abandoned. The issue hasn't been discussed without name-calling or freaking out about their politics or religion. I say this as someone who is exactly the type of person a Duggar would rally against: independent, godless, liberal lesbian.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's now being reported that Josh Duggar sued the Arkansas DHS in 2007 - after the investigation of his wrongdoing. Sure sounds like he was remorseful about what he did.

Link?

Here are links outlining the case (though sealed)

What a gross, disgusting person. So much is being made that Josh was 14 at the time. A 14 year old has the wherewithal to know not to repeatedly molest their younger siblings. Additionally, an adult who feels remorseful about his teenage crimes doesn't then make incest jokes on national TV. What a fucking scumbag.

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/duggar-molestation-case-another-bombshell-revealed-josh-sued-the-arkansas-department-of-human-services-59201

http://www.shakesville.com/2015/05/duggar-where-was-child-welfare.html

I do think 14 is pretty young, and it seems to be unknown whether a 14/15 year old who molests younger siblings would re-offend as an adult. However, there are plenty of jurisdictions that try 14 year olds for murder and other crimes -- but now, since he repented and asked for forgiveness, it's all good? Cognitive dissonance.

I don't know about re-offense, but it's clear Josh was never made to go through the therapy, counseling, or punishment to actually understand the gravity of his crimes. As an adult, he still doesn't get it. No one in their right mind who feels a spec of remorse for repeatedly molesting their siblings, then makes incest jokes about it. What the fuckity fuck?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's now being reported that Josh Duggar sued the Arkansas DHS in 2007 - after the investigation of his wrongdoing. Sure sounds like he was remorseful about what he did.

Link?

Here are links outlining the case (though sealed)

What a gross, disgusting person. So much is being made that Josh was 14 at the time. A 14 year old has the wherewithal to know not to repeatedly molest their younger siblings. Additionally, an adult who feels remorseful about his teenage crimes doesn't then make incest jokes on national TV. What a fucking scumbag.

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/duggar-molestation-case-another-bombshell-revealed-josh-sued-the-arkansas-department-of-human-services-59201

http://www.shakesville.com/2015/05/duggar-where-was-child-welfare.html

I do think 14 is pretty young, and it seems to be unknown whether a 14/15 year old who molests younger siblings would re-offend as an adult. However, there are plenty of jurisdictions that try 14 year olds for murder and other crimes -- but now, since he repented and asked for forgiveness, it's all good? Cognitive dissonance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's now being reported that Josh Duggar sued the Arkansas DHS in 2007 - after the investigation of his wrongdoing. Sure sounds like he was remorseful about what he did.

Link?

Here are links outlining the case (though sealed)

What a gross, disgusting person. So much is being made that Josh was 14 at the time. A 14 year old has the wherewithal to know not to repeatedly molest their younger siblings. Additionally, an adult who feels remorseful about his teenage crimes doesn't then make incest jokes on national TV. What a fucking scumbag.

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/duggar-molestation-case-another-bombshell-revealed-josh-sued-the-arkansas-department-of-human-services-59201

http://www.shakesville.com/2015/05/duggar-where-was-child-welfare.html