Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, none of the things people are raising here as very valid reasons this plan should fail — the costs, the flooding, the traffic, etc. — will wind up mattering. Youngkin and Leonsis want it. It'll go through. I wish it wouldn't, as I'd like to see the teams stay in downtown D.C., but I don't really see the point in hoping against reality.

Youngkin doesn't control the Alexandria city council, nor does he have any goodwill with the state assembly.

There are plenty in office who have begun to question the deal and as the facts trickle out, it gets worse and worse for the voters/taxpayers.

Lots of bad things for voters and taxpayers happen all the time, though. Especially when stadium deals are involved. Again, I would love to be proven wrong, but as a D.C. resident (and therefore someone with no ability to influence the decision at all), I am not going to bother to hope this one turns into a surprise.

The taxpayers are likely already being pushed into a having to cough up a minimum of $2 billion in taxes (and likely much more) to pay for building the stadium and whatever other ongoing subsidies. They should have some say in that. Beyond that, what else do they get, and using realistic numbers? So local restaurants and businesses might get more visitors? I don't think that alone makes up for it. Did local business opportunity in SW DC suddenly skyrocket and the community become flush with money when Audi Field opened? Not exactly. And, it also brought a huge amount of traffic congestion (like complete standstill, 40 minutes to travel a single block, god forbid someone has a heart attack because an ambulance will never make it there in time) and other issues during the more popular events. Who exactly pays? Just Alexandria? Does Youngkin chip in state funds and everyone in VA pays? Is there a bond issue? And why are we subsidizing billionaires anyhow? If these sports teams are making enough money to pay their players millions, why are we having to pay for a stadium for them to play in?
...

Why are they crying poverty and demanding subsidies at all?

Taxpayers are being punked on all of this. NBA and NHL are massive multi-billion dollar industries. We shouldn't be subsidizing them.

Totally agree with you! I have D.C. United season tickets but still opposed D.C. spending any money on building Audi Field (technically, the team paid for the stadium, but the city kicked in almost as much money in "infrastructure" as the team did). I am opposed to subsidies for sports teams and, in this case, I would prefer the teams stay in my city than move to Alexandria.

I'm not ENDORSING the move, I'm only saying it's probably going to happen despite the many, many good arguments against it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, none of the things people are raising here as very valid reasons this plan should fail — the costs, the flooding, the traffic, etc. — will wind up mattering. Youngkin and Leonsis want it. It'll go through. I wish it wouldn't, as I'd like to see the teams stay in downtown D.C., but I don't really see the point in hoping against reality.

Youngkin doesn't control the Alexandria city council, nor does he have any goodwill with the state assembly.

There are plenty in office who have begun to question the deal and as the facts trickle out, it gets worse and worse for the voters/taxpayers.

Lots of bad things for voters and taxpayers happen all the time, though. Especially when stadium deals are involved. Again, I would love to be proven wrong, but as a D.C. resident (and therefore someone with no ability to influence the decision at all), I am not going to bother to hope this one turns into a surprise.

The taxpayers are likely already being pushed into a having to cough up a minimum of $2 billion in taxes (and likely much more) to pay for building the stadium and whatever other ongoing subsidies. They should have some say in that. Beyond that, what else do they get, and using realistic numbers? So local restaurants and businesses might get more visitors? I don't think that alone makes up for it. Did local business opportunity in SW DC suddenly skyrocket and the community become flush with money when Audi Field opened? Not exactly. And, it also brought a huge amount of traffic congestion (like complete standstill, 40 minutes to travel a single block, god forbid someone has a heart attack because an ambulance will never make it there in time) and other issues during the more popular events. Who exactly pays? Just Alexandria? Does Youngkin chip in state funds and everyone in VA pays? Is there a bond issue? And why are we subsidizing billionaires anyhow? If these sports teams are making enough money to pay their players millions, why are we having to pay for a stadium for them to play in?

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/washington-capitals/yearly/cap/
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/washington-wizards/yearly/cap/

https://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/#tab:overall
https://www.forbes.com/lists/nba-valuations/?sh=3cf3254f6982

Why are they crying poverty and demanding subsidies at all?

Taxpayers are being punked on all of this. NBA and NHL are massive multi-billion dollar industries. We shouldn't be subsidizing them.

Anonymous wrote:Five-plus acres to redevelop in the heart of DC sounds great for missing middle housing!

Somehow townhouses don't seem optimal at the arena site.

Five-plus acres to redevelop in the heart of DC sounds great for missing middle housing!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NPS would not sign off on such a project. The impact on wildlife and the river would be contrary to its mission.

Well Potomac Yards was a freight rail yard, one of the largest in the country. But it ran via overhead electrical wires. So the air was clean since the locomotives were electric.

Nevermind that it was a SuperFund site because of all of the industrial toxins.

The freight rail yard was the hub for the tropicana orange juice trains, and not chemical freight. There was no fuel since the trains ran on overhead wires. Any cleanup was minimal and just took a few months at most, maybe less. The Potomac Yards just sat vacant for a time until the Hoyt Cinema and Target opened up.

The section of Potomac Yards in Arlington County became office towers and hotels and no cleanup was needed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1992/07/23/toxic-cleanup-could-delay-new-stadium/63b6ba95-1506-4590-aae8-1d3f4b708028/

TOXIC CLEANUP COULD DELAY NEW STADIUM
July 23, 1992

“ The multimillion-dollar effort required to clean up a broad range of toxic pollutants that contaminate the site of a proposed Redskins stadium in Alexandria could delay the opening date set by team owner Jack Kent Cooke.

The pollution of the 86-year-old rail yard site includes toxic metals and PCBs, both possible causes of cancer in humans. In some places, arsenic levels are 1,000 times higher than the federal safety ceiling. An underground spill of diesel oil -- seven feet thick in one spot -- contaminates a locomotive-refueling area. A 15-foot layer of fly ash, which contains traces of potentially hazardous metals, is buried there.“

Still probably safer than DC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NPS would not sign off on such a project. The impact on wildlife and the river would be contrary to its mission.

Well Potomac Yards was a freight rail yard, one of the largest in the country. But it ran via overhead electrical wires. So the air was clean since the locomotives were electric.

Nevermind that it was a SuperFund site because of all of the industrial toxins.

The freight rail yard was the hub for the tropicana orange juice trains, and not chemical freight. There was no fuel since the trains ran on overhead wires. Any cleanup was minimal and just took a few months at most, maybe less. The Potomac Yards just sat vacant for a time until the Hoyt Cinema and Target opened up.

The section of Potomac Yards in Arlington County became office towers and hotels and no cleanup was needed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1992/07/23/toxic-cleanup-could-delay-new-stadium/63b6ba95-1506-4590-aae8-1d3f4b708028/

TOXIC CLEANUP COULD DELAY NEW STADIUM
July 23, 1992

“ The multimillion-dollar effort required to clean up a broad range of toxic pollutants that contaminate the site of a proposed Redskins stadium in Alexandria could delay the opening date set by team owner Jack Kent Cooke.

The pollution of the 86-year-old rail yard site includes toxic metals and PCBs, both possible causes of cancer in humans. In some places, arsenic levels are 1,000 times higher than the federal safety ceiling. An underground spill of diesel oil -- seven feet thick in one spot -- contaminates a locomotive-refueling area. A 15-foot layer of fly ash, which contains traces of potentially hazardous metals, is buried there.“

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2012/may/03/south-potomac-yard-area-certified-safe/

Yup. It was a multi-year cleanup.

However, it's done. There's nothing left to worry about.

Just correcting an earlier comment that said “Any cleanup was minimal and just took a few months at most, maybe less.”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NPS would not sign off on such a project. The impact on wildlife and the river would be contrary to its mission.

Well Potomac Yards was a freight rail yard, one of the largest in the country. But it ran via overhead electrical wires. So the air was clean since the locomotives were electric.

Nevermind that it was a SuperFund site because of all of the industrial toxins.

The freight rail yard was the hub for the tropicana orange juice trains, and not chemical freight. There was no fuel since the trains ran on overhead wires. Any cleanup was minimal and just took a few months at most, maybe less. The Potomac Yards just sat vacant for a time until the Hoyt Cinema and Target opened up.

The section of Potomac Yards in Arlington County became office towers and hotels and no cleanup was needed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1992/07/23/toxic-cleanup-could-delay-new-stadium/63b6ba95-1506-4590-aae8-1d3f4b708028/

TOXIC CLEANUP COULD DELAY NEW STADIUM
July 23, 1992

“ The multimillion-dollar effort required to clean up a broad range of toxic pollutants that contaminate the site of a proposed Redskins stadium in Alexandria could delay the opening date set by team owner Jack Kent Cooke.

The pollution of the 86-year-old rail yard site includes toxic metals and PCBs, both possible causes of cancer in humans. In some places, arsenic levels are 1,000 times higher than the federal safety ceiling. An underground spill of diesel oil -- seven feet thick in one spot -- contaminates a locomotive-refueling area. A 15-foot layer of fly ash, which contains traces of potentially hazardous metals, is buried there.“

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2012/may/03/south-potomac-yard-area-certified-safe/

Yup. It was a multi-year cleanup.

I worked on this deal. There was an extensive clean up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NPS would not sign off on such a project. The impact on wildlife and the river would be contrary to its mission.

Well Potomac Yards was a freight rail yard, one of the largest in the country. But it ran via overhead electrical wires. So the air was clean since the locomotives were electric.

Nevermind that it was a SuperFund site because of all of the industrial toxins.

The freight rail yard was the hub for the tropicana orange juice trains, and not chemical freight. There was no fuel since the trains ran on overhead wires. Any cleanup was minimal and just took a few months at most, maybe less. The Potomac Yards just sat vacant for a time until the Hoyt Cinema and Target opened up.

The section of Potomac Yards in Arlington County became office towers and hotels and no cleanup was needed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1992/07/23/toxic-cleanup-could-delay-new-stadium/63b6ba95-1506-4590-aae8-1d3f4b708028/

TOXIC CLEANUP COULD DELAY NEW STADIUM
July 23, 1992

“ The multimillion-dollar effort required to clean up a broad range of toxic pollutants that contaminate the site of a proposed Redskins stadium in Alexandria could delay the opening date set by team owner Jack Kent Cooke.

The pollution of the 86-year-old rail yard site includes toxic metals and PCBs, both possible causes of cancer in humans. In some places, arsenic levels are 1,000 times higher than the federal safety ceiling. An underground spill of diesel oil -- seven feet thick in one spot -- contaminates a locomotive-refueling area. A 15-foot layer of fly ash, which contains traces of potentially hazardous metals, is buried there.“

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2012/may/03/south-potomac-yard-area-certified-safe/

Yup. It was a multi-year cleanup.

However, it's done. There's nothing left to worry about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, none of the things people are raising here as very valid reasons this plan should fail — the costs, the flooding, the traffic, etc. — will wind up mattering. Youngkin and Leonsis want it. It'll go through. I wish it wouldn't, as I'd like to see the teams stay in downtown D.C., but I don't really see the point in hoping against reality.

Youngkin doesn't control the Alexandria city council, nor does he have any goodwill with the state assembly.

There are plenty in office who have begun to question the deal and as the facts trickle out, it gets worse and worse for the voters/taxpayers.

Lots of bad things for voters and taxpayers happen all the time, though. Especially when stadium deals are involved. Again, I would love to be proven wrong, but as a D.C. resident (and therefore someone with no ability to influence the decision at all), I am not going to bother to hope this one turns into a surprise.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NPS would not sign off on such a project. The impact on wildlife and the river would be contrary to its mission.

Well Potomac Yards was a freight rail yard, one of the largest in the country. But it ran via overhead electrical wires. So the air was clean since the locomotives were electric.

Nevermind that it was a SuperFund site because of all of the industrial toxins.

The freight rail yard was the hub for the tropicana orange juice trains, and not chemical freight. There was no fuel since the trains ran on overhead wires. Any cleanup was minimal and just took a few months at most, maybe less. The Potomac Yards just sat vacant for a time until the Hoyt Cinema and Target opened up.

The section of Potomac Yards in Arlington County became office towers and hotels and no cleanup was needed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1992/07/23/toxic-cleanup-could-delay-new-stadium/63b6ba95-1506-4590-aae8-1d3f4b708028/

TOXIC CLEANUP COULD DELAY NEW STADIUM
July 23, 1992

“ The multimillion-dollar effort required to clean up a broad range of toxic pollutants that contaminate the site of a proposed Redskins stadium in Alexandria could delay the opening date set by team owner Jack Kent Cooke.

The pollution of the 86-year-old rail yard site includes toxic metals and PCBs, both possible causes of cancer in humans. In some places, arsenic levels are 1,000 times higher than the federal safety ceiling. An underground spill of diesel oil -- seven feet thick in one spot -- contaminates a locomotive-refueling area. A 15-foot layer of fly ash, which contains traces of potentially hazardous metals, is buried there.“

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2012/may/03/south-potomac-yard-area-certified-safe/

Yup. It was a multi-year cleanup.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NPS would not sign off on such a project. The impact on wildlife and the river would be contrary to its mission.

Well Potomac Yards was a freight rail yard, one of the largest in the country. But it ran via overhead electrical wires. So the air was clean since the locomotives were electric.

Nevermind that it was a SuperFund site because of all of the industrial toxins.

The freight rail yard was the hub for the tropicana orange juice trains, and not chemical freight. There was no fuel since the trains ran on overhead wires. Any cleanup was minimal and just took a few months at most, maybe less. The Potomac Yards just sat vacant for a time until the Hoyt Cinema and Target opened up.

The section of Potomac Yards in Arlington County became office towers and hotels and no cleanup was needed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1992/07/23/toxic-cleanup-could-delay-new-stadium/63b6ba95-1506-4590-aae8-1d3f4b708028/

TOXIC CLEANUP COULD DELAY NEW STADIUM
July 23, 1992

“ The multimillion-dollar effort required to clean up a broad range of toxic pollutants that contaminate the site of a proposed Redskins stadium in Alexandria could delay the opening date set by team owner Jack Kent Cooke.

The pollution of the 86-year-old rail yard site includes toxic metals and PCBs, both possible causes of cancer in humans. In some places, arsenic levels are 1,000 times higher than the federal safety ceiling. An underground spill of diesel oil -- seven feet thick in one spot -- contaminates a locomotive-refueling area. A 15-foot layer of fly ash, which contains traces of potentially hazardous metals, is buried there.“

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2012/may/03/south-potomac-yard-area-certified-safe/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NPS would not sign off on such a project. The impact on wildlife and the river would be contrary to its mission.

Well Potomac Yards was a freight rail yard, one of the largest in the country. But it ran via overhead electrical wires. So the air was clean since the locomotives were electric.

Nevermind that it was a SuperFund site because of all of the industrial toxins.

The freight rail yard was the hub for the tropicana orange juice trains, and not chemical freight. There was no fuel since the trains ran on overhead wires. Any cleanup was minimal and just took a few months at most, maybe less. The Potomac Yards just sat vacant for a time until the Hoyt Cinema and Target opened up.

The section of Potomac Yards in Arlington County became office towers and hotels and no cleanup was needed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1992/07/23/toxic-cleanup-could-delay-new-stadium/63b6ba95-1506-4590-aae8-1d3f4b708028/

TOXIC CLEANUP COULD DELAY NEW STADIUM
July 23, 1992

“ The multimillion-dollar effort required to clean up a broad range of toxic pollutants that contaminate the site of a proposed Redskins stadium in Alexandria could delay the opening date set by team owner Jack Kent Cooke.

The pollution of the 86-year-old rail yard site includes toxic metals and PCBs, both possible causes of cancer in humans. In some places, arsenic levels are 1,000 times higher than the federal safety ceiling. An underground spill of diesel oil -- seven feet thick in one spot -- contaminates a locomotive-refueling area. A 15-foot layer of fly ash, which contains traces of potentially hazardous metals, is buried there.“

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, none of the things people are raising here as very valid reasons this plan should fail — the costs, the flooding, the traffic, etc. — will wind up mattering. Youngkin and Leonsis want it. It'll go through. I wish it wouldn't, as I'd like to see the teams stay in downtown D.C., but I don't really see the point in hoping against reality.

Youngkin doesn't control the Alexandria city council, nor does he have any goodwill with the state assembly.

There are plenty in office who have begun to question the deal and as the facts trickle out, it gets worse and worse for the voters/taxpayers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This deal is not done, so DC has some hope. Lets pressure the Mayor and DC Council to move aggressively and quickly. Both are important.

Or they can sit back and let the Virginia House of Delegates reject a bad deal, and maybe have a staffer take Teddy’s call when he comes crawling back.

That is not likley if Alexandria is on board.

If I were an Alexandria taxpayer, I would be furious over this.

As an Alexandria taxpayer I like this. City of Alexandria needs to diversify its tax revenue and this will help. Original plans for Potomac Yard envisioned more office buildings in that section, but there’s little demand for new office space and Alexandria is leading the country in office to residential conversions. This whole entertainment district will generate a lot of tax revenue for Alexandria—much more than the empty lots that are currently there.

lol all the tax revenues generated by the project will be used to pay off the hundreds of millions in bond debt that Alexandria will owe to creditors as a result of pitching in to build the facility. Your mayor just sold Alexandria to the bond market for the next 20+ years all while knowing he won’t have to answer to the voters.

Don’t see anything wrong with the revenue from the project being used to pay off bond debt that helped build it.

Right, but Alexandria would be on the hook if the rosy projections of concession and ticket sales do not cover the obligation. Given the difficulty of the location (ie the transportation issues) this is a real risk.

The indoor/outdoor performing arts venue will likely have events almost every day of the year. This will undoubtedly fill Alexandria’s coffers, and pull the renaming musicals and other shows out of downtown DC (namely the National and Warner theaters). Already most prefer to travel to the brand new Capital One Hall in Tysons for shows. Sadly there will just be fewer reasons for a night out on the town in DC with its beautiful architecture and culture. We’ll just drive all the bland new suburban venues. Strathmore, Capital One Hall, the future Potomac Yards performing arts space. Even the Kennedy Center might survive since it’s off of a freeway ramp with a speedy connection to Virginia.

You think that people are going to flock to a suburban venue without parking?

There is the Metroway BRT which runs by lots of empty office and hotel parking garages. The city and Metro can pay for increased frequency. It’ll be like taking the parking shuttle at Disneyland.

DP, but you think, given everything, people will

1) drive from where they are, 30-90 minutes
2) park in some external lot ($20+)
3) wait for a bus
4) ride a bus
5) go to event
6) wait in line for bus
7) ride bus
8)get car
9) drive back to where they came from

Ted is making what had been a 3-4 hour time committment to attend an event into an all day bonanza.

Most people understand that, which is why the teams are being told from their plan holders, that they will not be making this move.

I personally would not but if you consider what it's like taking a trip from Dulles...Good God. I hate flying out of that airport but I do because I want to get to my travel destinations. Never underestimate the power of desire. For fans who want to see their team play, I think they would do this if you market the right way. I would never travel to specific NFL fields because of how inconvenient it is (Soldier Field as I'm from Chicago for example) and yet, people do. I think maybe the Wizards would be hurting because their fans tend to be more urban. But for Caps, I think if they play great, people would do this absolutely. I also think there's a difference n talking about the average person who sees a game out of sheer entertainment and convenience which in DC makes sense. These people would likely not do the above. But there's a lot of people in NOVA/DC and I would even suggest die hard Cap fans in MD who could feasibly do this. Again, I would not do it but not sure how much different it is than going to see a game or doing something that does take a really long time and isn't easy to do but ultimately, you are doing something to see what you want. People have done much crazier stuff!!

Dude. Busy professionals do not have time to turn a simple Caps/Wizards game into a 5-6 hour excursion. Not happening. Even a partial season ticket holder at 10-20 games is not spending the time. For comparison, this busy professional gave up highly desirable Redskins season tickets because did not want to spend all day Sunday at a game, and could not even give away the tickets. I know dozens of former season ticket holders who made the same decision.

And yet the stadium is sold out every weekend.

Narrator: the commanders had their first sellout in many, many years this season when Miami fans packed the stadium.

The Miami Cardinals?

https://commanderswire.usatoday.com/2023/09/01/washington-commanders-2023-nfl-season-sold-out-fedex-field/

You’re right. They did sell that out. So two sellouts this year after not selling out a single game since 2018 (first year I began taking my son to games).

And the Commanders used to have a long long waiting list. So not only do they generally not sell out, they also have no waiting list for tickets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This deal is not done, so DC has some hope. Lets pressure the Mayor and DC Council to move aggressively and quickly. Both are important.

Or they can sit back and let the Virginia House of Delegates reject a bad deal, and maybe have a staffer take Teddy’s call when he comes crawling back.

That is not likley if Alexandria is on board.

If I were an Alexandria taxpayer, I would be furious over this.

As an Alexandria taxpayer I like this. City of Alexandria needs to diversify its tax revenue and this will help. Original plans for Potomac Yard envisioned more office buildings in that section, but there’s little demand for new office space and Alexandria is leading the country in office to residential conversions. This whole entertainment district will generate a lot of tax revenue for Alexandria—much more than the empty lots that are currently there.

lol all the tax revenues generated by the project will be used to pay off the hundreds of millions in bond debt that Alexandria will owe to creditors as a result of pitching in to build the facility. Your mayor just sold Alexandria to the bond market for the next 20+ years all while knowing he won’t have to answer to the voters.

Don’t see anything wrong with the revenue from the project being used to pay off bond debt that helped build it.

Right, but Alexandria would be on the hook if the rosy projections of concession and ticket sales do not cover the obligation. Given the difficulty of the location (ie the transportation issues) this is a real risk.

The indoor/outdoor performing arts venue will likely have events almost every day of the year. This will undoubtedly fill Alexandria’s coffers, and pull the renaming musicals and other shows out of downtown DC (namely the National and Warner theaters). Already most prefer to travel to the brand new Capital One Hall in Tysons for shows. Sadly there will just be fewer reasons for a night out on the town in DC with its beautiful architecture and culture. We’ll just drive all the bland new suburban venues. Strathmore, Capital One Hall, the future Potomac Yards performing arts space. Even the Kennedy Center might survive since it’s off of a freeway ramp with a speedy connection to Virginia.

The outdoor music venue under the landing path of National Airport? Ya, that will be real popular.

You can't build an outdoor music venue underwater.

Oh really?

And yet we still have the waterfront in Old Town. Why hasn't it been swept into the ocean at this point?

The waterfront that regularly gets flooded?

And yet they still appear to have buildings there. How is this happening?

Flooding is only going to get worse. At some point, repairing these buildings after every flood will become untenable.

Do these Old Town buildings have basements? I presume an PY arena will have basements, below ground parking, taller buildings, etc.