Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When it's in the 90s and above, even the military has "black flag" conditions and are supposed to allow for specific periods of rest, water, shade and monitoring during drills. And this is military members.

So a 109 degree hike for several miles with a 20 lb baby and gear plus possibly an ailing dog is basically against all logic.

Looking at weather reports it looks like it was in the 80s when they started. Maybe they planned to be back by the time temps reached into the upper 90s to 100+.

South facing exposure. No shade. Even 80F would be hot.

80 degrees isn't very hot in desert climates, even in direct sun. It just didn't stay 80 degrees for very long. From the timeline posted earlier, it was close to 100 degrees at 10am.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a mom, if your baby died and your husband was dying, would you leave the dead baby to go for aid? I’m not sure I would be rationale enough to leave them and may take their corpse but that could have been the scene here.

This mom was quite petite. The baby carrier looks big and heavy. She might not have wanted to leave the baby behind but may not have had a choice. She didn’t have the strength to carry it. I honestly think she wasn’t thinking coherently by then from grief, panic and heat exhaustion. The only cell phone mentioned was with the husband and so even if she took off, she didn’t have a cell phone on her. She didn’t think to get his cell phone. It’s all very sad.

The high end hiking carriers are not actually that heavy. Less than 10 pounds. You think the mom couldn’t carry 30 lbs (20 for baby and 10 for pack) if she had to?

I think if the dad and mom were both suffering but mom was a bit better off, it would make sense to leave the baby with dad and get help as quickly as possible. Assuming the baby had shade from the carrier and hydration, mom should do everything she could to make her hike for help easier. Once mom gets up to the car and is able to call for help, it wouldn't be too much longer before everyone is rescued.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When it's in the 90s and above, even the military has "black flag" conditions and are supposed to allow for specific periods of rest, water, shade and monitoring during drills. And this is military members.

So a 109 degree hike for several miles with a 20 lb baby and gear plus possibly an ailing dog is basically against all logic.

Looking at weather reports it looks like it was in the 80s when they started. Maybe they planned to be back by the time temps reached into the upper 90s to 100+.

South facing exposure. No shade. Even 80F would be hot.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They may not have been inexperienced hikers, but they probably only VERY recently started hiking with the baby since most hiking carriers recommend starting them at around 6+ months when they can sit up in the carrier.

The baby was a year old and apparently there is lots of social media traffic showing them hiking this summer.

Too young to walk on its own and too big to carry in strenuous conditions

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a mom, if your baby died and your husband was dying, would you leave the dead baby to go for aid? I’m not sure I would be rationale enough to leave them and may take their corpse but that could have been the scene here.

This mom was quite petite. The baby carrier looks big and heavy. She might not have wanted to leave the baby behind but may not have had a choice. She didn’t have the strength to carry it. I honestly think she wasn’t thinking coherently by then from grief, panic and heat exhaustion. The only cell phone mentioned was with the husband and so even if she took off, she didn’t have a cell phone on her. She didn’t think to get his cell phone. It’s all very sad.

The high end hiking carriers are not actually that heavy. Less than 10 pounds. You think the mom couldn’t carry 30 lbs (20 for baby and 10 for pack) if she had to?

No, I don’t. That’s a third of her weight, bulky as f, in 103F heat, on uneven terrain and over 1.5 miles away. Impossible.

Generously, a mile would take her 20 minutes to walk in normal conditions. So 30-minutes for a mile-and-a-half. Now add a 30-pound weight to her back, it would probably take her at least forty-five minutes.

Which there’s no way she could sustain a march that long with that weight.

I know heat stroke comes on fast. I still think this entire hike makes no sense. It was already close to 90 degrees when they set out, and before 11 was forecasted to hit 103.

If they were seen driving towards the trail head at 7:45 it means they started their walk around 8. By 9 it was very hot, but not heat stroke hot yet. The baby, even with shade, would have been showing signs of struggling in the heat-either being very fussy or lethargic. How far could they have gone and how bad could things really be that one of the parents couldn’t get out by then? Again, I’m saying prior to heat stroke or exhaustion setting in. The heat would have been apparent, they could have just turned around 20-30 minutes in. Also, I had those fancy hiking carries and 1 year olds do not generally like them-they want to be walking and moving around unless they are asleep.

I live in the desert and yes it’s cool in the mornings, but that means 5/6 AM. By 9 AM, nobody goes outside on these kinds of days.

They weren’t tourists. They knew this area. On the WS thread, they said that the dad had been on this trail at least once before and had owned property in the area for years.

It just does not make sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a mom, if your baby died and your husband was dying, would you leave the dead baby to go for aid? I’m not sure I would be rationale enough to leave them and may take their corpse but that could have been the scene here.

This mom was quite petite. The baby carrier looks big and heavy. She might not have wanted to leave the baby behind but may not have had a choice. She didn’t have the strength to carry it. I honestly think she wasn’t thinking coherently by then from grief, panic and heat exhaustion. The only cell phone mentioned was with the husband and so even if she took off, she didn’t have a cell phone on her. She didn’t think to get his cell phone. It’s all very sad.

The high end hiking carriers are not actually that heavy. Less than 10 pounds. You think the mom couldn’t carry 30 lbs (20 for baby and 10 for pack) if she had to?

Anonymous wrote:They may not have been inexperienced hikers, but they probably only VERY recently started hiking with the baby since most hiking carriers recommend starting them at around 6+ months when they can sit up in the carrier.

The baby was a year old and apparently there is lots of social media traffic showing them hiking this summer.

Anonymous wrote:They may not have been inexperienced hikers, but they probably only VERY recently started hiking with the baby since most hiking carriers recommend starting them at around 6+ months when they can sit up in the carrier.

For babies younger than 6mo, you can hike with them in a wrap on your front. Hopefully obviously not for really long hikes in the middle of summer, but it's really easy to go on shorter hikes with a small infant. But no, you don't use a back carrier like that until a baby can sit independently.

The Doctor from LA might have just had a heart attack; he was mid-40s and a big guy so sometimes that just happens.

The Doctor from TX definitely did die from heat exhaustion.

I don't understand, why aren't these people taking their kids to the pool and beach for a summer vacation? Who visits the GC in late July/Aug -- it's misery. Its a great Spring Break trip.

The Mariposa family were walking in extreme heat, but it was near their house so likely seem like a neighborhood stroll in some cranny of their mind.

They may not have been inexperienced hikers, but they probably only VERY recently started hiking with the baby since most hiking carriers recommend starting them at around 6+ months when they can sit up in the carrier.

Anonymous wrote:I doubt it was foul play, after reading all these posts. I think that this couple totally underprepared for the hike and overestimated their abilities. This unfortunately happens all the time. I just think of my husband, who is otherwise professionally quite accomplished, never thinking of bringing enough water on hikes, even with the kids. A couple of years ago, there was a physician who died on a hike (I think at the Grand Canyon?) because she, a medical doctor, under-estimated how much water she and the kids would need. The mom died and the kids were found alone.
I think that the parents realized they were in danger, the dad sat down with the kid and dog, and the mom died not far away seeking help. If you've ever seen heatstroke, which I have seen first hand having traveled extensively in the Middle East, it can be fatal very, very quickly. You become disoriented and your body just shuts down.

Apparently multiple doctors have died hiking in the Grand Canyon

https://www.theadvocate.com/acadiana/news/article_16152f8c-e645-11eb-8e0c-57ce544046b1.html

https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/04/us/hiking-death-grand-canyon-trnd/index.html

Anonymous wrote:As a mom, if your baby died and your husband was dying, would you leave the dead baby to go for aid? I’m not sure I would be rationale enough to leave them and may take their corpse but that could have been the scene here.

This mom was quite petite. The baby carrier looks big and heavy. She might not have wanted to leave the baby behind but may not have had a choice. She didn’t have the strength to carry it. I honestly think she wasn’t thinking coherently by then from grief, panic and heat exhaustion. The only cell phone mentioned was with the husband and so even if she took off, she didn’t have a cell phone on her. She didn’t think to get his cell phone. It’s all very sad.

If this is near Yosemite and at a high elevation then the combination of thinner air, possible smoke and high heat is probably what did it. We went hike/walking in Yosemite on a not steep mostly paved or dirt path. It didn’t seem that hot, it was shady and I drank beer at lunch. Halfway through I had drank my water and was extremely thirsty and exhausted. There was really no choice but to keep going. I didn’t collapse but when we finally reached the area where the shuttle can take you to the main village and there was a water fountain I was so relieved. I’ve never drank so much water from a drinking fountain. I’m not out of shape but the altitude, beer and heat surprised me.

Anonymous wrote:As a mom, if your baby died and your husband was dying, would you leave the dead baby to go for aid? I’m not sure I would be rationale enough to leave them and may take their corpse but that could have been the scene here.

Absolutely. The sooner I could get them help, the sooner they could have a chance to be saved.