Anonymous
10/31/2014 19:08
Subject: Official Ebola update thread
Per CNN, Canada has stopped processing visas from Rbola hot spots. If somewhere as liberal as Canada is doing it, why can't we? It will not affect American health workers going back and forth so that worry is groundless.
Anonymous
10/31/2014 18:40
Subject: Official Ebola update thread
Science: +1
Paranoid dingbats: 0
The judge made the right and appropriate call. This is precisely why I fear having even (very, very marginally) "moderate" conservatives like Christie in office. You cannot make medical and civil liberties decisions based on "feelings," especially when those "feelings" run contrary to all scientific fact.
Paranoid dingbats: 0
The judge made the right and appropriate call. This is precisely why I fear having even (very, very marginally) "moderate" conservatives like Christie in office. You cannot make medical and civil liberties decisions based on "feelings," especially when those "feelings" run contrary to all scientific fact.
Anonymous
10/31/2014 18:40
Subject: Re:Official Ebola update thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
First of all, Huff Post has posted quite a few articles claiming vaccines cause autism. So take anything you read there with a grain of salt.
Second, the point is that Ebola is NOT airborne. This whole think about droplets would mislead the public. NO ONE has contracted Ebola from a sneeze.
You don't know if anyone has contracted it through sneezing.
The science says it is in saliva and mucus. And if that is wrong, the conclusion becomes: we don't know all of "the science" yet.
But we're importing it anyway through casual travel and individual HCW traveling as they please. Hickox wants to bike. Spencer and Vinson chose subway, plane. Do we know their moment of contagiousness?
Seriously, if it could be spread through a sneeze, there would be MILLIONS infected in Africa. There hasn't even been 15k sickened.
It is present in saliva and mucus secretions.
Yes, but that mucuous would need to go straight into a cut, a mouth, an eye. The HCW's aren't going around licking subway handrails hoping someone will touch it immediately and then stick their finger in their mouth.
Anonymous
10/31/2014 18:34
Subject: Re:Official Ebola update thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
First of all, Huff Post has posted quite a few articles claiming vaccines cause autism. So take anything you read there with a grain of salt.
Second, the point is that Ebola is NOT airborne. This whole think about droplets would mislead the public. NO ONE has contracted Ebola from a sneeze.
You don't know if anyone has contracted it through sneezing.
The science says it is in saliva and mucus. And if that is wrong, the conclusion becomes: we don't know all of "the science" yet.
But we're importing it anyway through casual travel and individual HCW traveling as they please. Hickox wants to bike. Spencer and Vinson chose subway, plane. Do we know their moment of contagiousness?
Seriously, if it could be spread through a sneeze, there would be MILLIONS infected in Africa. There hasn't even been 15k sickened.
It is present in saliva and mucus secretions.
Anonymous
10/31/2014 18:28
Subject: Re:Official Ebola update thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
First of all, Huff Post has posted quite a few articles claiming vaccines cause autism. So take anything you read there with a grain of salt.
Second, the point is that Ebola is NOT airborne. This whole think about droplets would mislead the public. NO ONE has contracted Ebola from a sneeze.
You don't know if anyone has contracted it through sneezing.
The science says it is in saliva and mucus. And if that is wrong, the conclusion becomes: we don't know all of "the science" yet.
But we're importing it anyway through casual travel and individual HCW traveling as they please. Hickox wants to bike. Spencer and Vinson chose subway, plane. Do we know their moment of contagiousness?
Seriously, if it could be spread through a sneeze, there would be MILLIONS infected in Africa. There hasn't even been 15k sickened.
Anonymous
10/31/2014 18:27
Subject: Re:Official Ebola update thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's some science. Assuming that Lancet is an acceptable source for most everyone here.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10881895/
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Ebola virus is one of the most virulent pathogens, killing a very high proportion of patients within 5-7 days. Two outbreaks of fulminating haemorrhagic fever occurred in northern Gabon in 1996, with a 70% case-fatality rate. During both outbreaks we identified some individuals in direct contact with sick patients who never developed symptoms. We aimed to determine whether these individuals were indeed infected with Ebola virus, and how they maintained asymptomatic status.
...
INTERPRETATION: This study showed that asymptomatic, replicative Ebola infection can and does occur in human beings. The lack of genetic differences between symptomatic and asymptomatic individuals suggest that asymptomatic Ebola infection did not result from viral mutations. Elucidation of the factors related to the genesis of the strong inflammatory response occurring early during the infectious process in these asymptomatic individuals could increase our understanding of the disease.
Did they have enough copies of the virus to infect someone else?
Click and read for yourself.
Anonymous
10/31/2014 18:23
Subject: Official Ebola update thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So we must ask the question...should we detain all healthcare worker? I say yes.
That is an excellent way to allow this epidemic to spread even further.
The way to control it is to control it in Africa. The way to control it in Africa is to send medical workers over to help. And the way to send medical workers is not to treat them like criminals.
The courts will not uphold these quarantines. The case law goes back many decades. the science just won't support it. This is all being driven by hysteria.
Your post makes no sense. Asking people to keep out of public and self-monitor for three weeks is hardly treating them like criminals. And certainly allowing potentiall infected people in from affected countries on visas is playing with fire
So again, who are you willing to risk?
You need to understand the context of how Kaci Kickox was treated. She was held for hours - after a two day journey - without food and water. They did not explain anything to her about why she was being detained. Read her story.
http://www.dallasnews.com/ebola/headlines/20141025-uta-grad-isolated-at-new-jersey-hospital-as-part-of-ebola-quarantine.ece
If you haven't traveled internationally, not only is the flights long (multiple flights if coming from Africa), but also poor airplane food, hours in lines at customs and immigration - where there is NO foodcourt, no snack shop. She was exhausted and hungry and they treated her as if she had done something wrong.
So, some call it a 3 week staycation, whatever. 3 weeks not leaving your home? I know moms of newborns that start going crazy after 4 days. Try 21, and your healthy, and you haven't been home in months. You've dreamed of shopping, buying groceries you like, enjoying a nice restaurant, sipping a coffee reading a newspaper at a cafe.
I spent 6 months in Africa. I can't imagine spending my first weekend home in a TENT, let alone 21 days of house arrest.
Anonymous
10/31/2014 18:05
Subject: Official Ebola update thread
Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: if you can't pinpoint the time of contagion, you are taking risk. The nurse's right to not quarantine does not supercede someone else's right not to be 'risked'. It is also nobody's business if someone else decides to avoid that risk, even if you feel it's a perceived one. Who do you people think you are? It's amazing how much control progressives feel they deserve over others.
Odd thing for someone who wants to lock up healthy people to say.
We do not lock people up in this country for "perceived" risks. We only quarantine for real risks.
Otherwise it would be massive government over reach restricting the liberty of Americans, which I thought conservatives opposed.
Anonymous
10/31/2014 18:02
Subject: Official Ebola update thread
Duncan did not make anyone sick except the nurses at a hospital where he was end stage and they were not protected.
So I don't know what you mean by "we don't want any more Duncans." I agree that we don't want nurses and doctors to have such poor protection. But he did not make anyone sick outside the hospital, if anything this proves how very difficult it is to catch Ebola. His family was around him when he was actually symptomatic.
It seems to me that if you are irrationally afraid you should be the one staying home.
So I don't know what you mean by "we don't want any more Duncans." I agree that we don't want nurses and doctors to have such poor protection. But he did not make anyone sick outside the hospital, if anything this proves how very difficult it is to catch Ebola. His family was around him when he was actually symptomatic.
It seems to me that if you are irrationally afraid you should be the one staying home.
Anonymous
10/31/2014 18:01
Subject: Re:Official Ebola update thread
jsteele wrote:A judge in Maine just ruled that Kaci Hickox does not have to be quarantined:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/31/us-health-ebola-usa-idUSKBN0II1SP20141031
In addition, the judge had some interesting things to say:
"the court is fully aware of the misconceptions, misinformation, bad science and bad information being spread from shore to shore in our country with respect to Ebola."
"The court is fully aware that people are acting out of fear and that this fear is not entirely rational."
Sounds like he may have been reading this thread.
Of course it is being read. Not only that, it is being buried. Friday night in DCUMland, also Halloween, and some folks are very busy leaving comments on every thread except this one.
jsteele
10/31/2014 16:59
Subject: Re:Official Ebola update thread
A judge in Maine just ruled that Kaci Hickox does not have to be quarantined:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/31/us-health-ebola-usa-idUSKBN0II1SP20141031
In addition, the judge had some interesting things to say:
"the court is fully aware of the misconceptions, misinformation, bad science and bad information being spread from shore to shore in our country with respect to Ebola."
"The court is fully aware that people are acting out of fear and that this fear is not entirely rational."
Sounds like he may have been reading this thread.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/31/us-health-ebola-usa-idUSKBN0II1SP20141031
In addition, the judge had some interesting things to say:
"the court is fully aware of the misconceptions, misinformation, bad science and bad information being spread from shore to shore in our country with respect to Ebola."
"The court is fully aware that people are acting out of fear and that this fear is not entirely rational."
Sounds like he may have been reading this thread.
Anonymous
10/31/2014 16:58
Subject: Official Ebola update thread
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:3/700 msf ex-pat staffers have gotten ebola. i think that more than justifies reasonable quarantine. Msf and feds need to realize that people in us will not tolerate this risk level and they need to respect that if they want to meet goal of sending health care workers in a sustainable manner. Msf docs may be cowboys as far as risk tolerance goes, but the rest of us are not. We do not want a pediatrician just back from Guinea treating our children.
I believe most. americans will support this effort whole heartedly and will treat these doctors and nurses like heroes. But not if our reasonable fears are ignored.
Hickox and supporters keep on saying that this about science not politics, but that is not true. Science can tell us tje risks (maybe) but cannot dictate how we interpret and respond to risks.
Oh please. They're not treating your kids for 21 days, they just want to be at home, able to step out occasionally while checking their temperature. Or riding a bike.
The Samaritan's Purse has tighter rules than Hickox wants. Spencer on a subway, cruising crowded NYC, etc is far different than Hickox in rural Maine on a bike. The problem is we don't know who will exhibit common sense. We don't need any more Duncans.
Some doctors and nurses and volunteers going to Africa are heroic and selfless while others might be adventurers or resume building. Is it like the volunteer in Africa evident in HS? Any third world country.
Anonymous
10/31/2014 16:33
Subject: Official Ebola update thread
Anonymous wrote:3/700 msf ex-pat staffers have gotten ebola. i think that more than justifies reasonable quarantine. Msf and feds need to realize that people in us will not tolerate this risk level and they need to respect that if they want to meet goal of sending health care workers in a sustainable manner. Msf docs may be cowboys as far as risk tolerance goes, but the rest of us are not. We do not want a pediatrician just back from Guinea treating our children.
I believe most. americans will support this effort whole heartedly and will treat these doctors and nurses like heroes. But not if our reasonable fears are ignored.
Hickox and supporters keep on saying that this about science not politics, but that is not true. Science can tell us tje risks (maybe) but cannot dictate how we interpret and respond to risks.
Oh please. They're not treating your kids for 21 days, they just want to be at home, able to step out occasionally while checking their temperature. Or riding a bike.
Anonymous
10/31/2014 16:30
Subject: Official Ebola update thread
Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: if you can't pinpoint the time of contagion, you are taking risk. The nurse's right to not quarantine does not supercede someone else's right not to be 'risked'. It is also nobody's business if someone else decides to avoid that risk, even if you feel it's a perceived one. Who do you people think you are? It's amazing how much control progressives feel they deserve over others.
You've got it entirely ass backward. The risk to you is minimal to non-existent. That's not a feeling. It's a fact based on the evidence. Your right to feel better and less afraid does not trump her civil liberties.
Who do you think YOU are? It's amazing how quickly conservatives abandon fundamental beliefs like individual rights and civil liberty the second they feel even a little bit scared.
People who would sacrifice liberty for the illusion of security deserve neither.
Anonymous
10/31/2014 16:17
Subject: Official Ebola update thread
3/700 msf ex-pat staffers have gotten ebola. i think that more than justifies reasonable quarantine. Msf and feds need to realize that people in us will not tolerate this risk level and they need to respect that if they want to meet goal of sending health care workers in a sustainable manner. Msf docs may be cowboys as far as risk tolerance goes, but the rest of us are not. We do not want a pediatrician just back from Guinea treating our children.
I believe most. americans will support this effort whole heartedly and will treat these doctors and nurses like heroes. But not if our reasonable fears are ignored.
Hickox and supporters keep on saying that this about science not politics, but that is not true. Science can tell us tje risks (maybe) but cannot dictate how we interpret and respond to risks.
I believe most. americans will support this effort whole heartedly and will treat these doctors and nurses like heroes. But not if our reasonable fears are ignored.
Hickox and supporters keep on saying that this about science not politics, but that is not true. Science can tell us tje risks (maybe) but cannot dictate how we interpret and respond to risks.