Anonymous
03/09/2020 19:01
Subject: Re:CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
Anonymous wrote:It’s amazing how one country has impacted everyone globally. Hoe they can learn this second time around to not facilitate number three.
Yes, the US is going to bomb the global economy because we couldn't slow the spread like China and Korea could. We even had a 2 month lead time.
Nice job, POTUS.
Anonymous
03/09/2020 18:58
Subject: Re:CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:FWIW - Not trying to be a wise guy and did see the locked thread on this BUT heard from a credible medical professional in the infectious diseases space and she said she thought COVID 19 has been in the US since the late fall or early winter. She felt there has been too much travel and it’s too contagious for it to have taken long. Not sure what this means but she thinks it means that we need to wash our hands and stay smart but that we are already “in it” and need to carry on.
I actually believe this to be true. Remember all the 'we have an early flu season' and 'the vaccine is not well-matched', then 1/2 way into the season (I think when flu actually started in, in earnest) it WAS well-matched. Then there were comments about lots of 'false positives' on flu tests.
Patient 0 had it in Wuhan in November. So your timeline is wrong.
The “early flu season” in December was influenza B. I tested hundreds of patients positive for it. The “second wave” this past month or so is influenza A. Again - I have tested hundreds of patients positive for it. Neither “wave” was COVID-19. Unfortunately.
Wow. Impressive that you were able to test them all for COVID-19.
Yes I’m sure they all had concurrent classic influenza presentation- with positive influenza testing- and covid19
A positive test for flu doesn't preclude covid19. It's unlikely but not definitive.
Anonymous
03/09/2020 18:41
Subject: Re:CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
Spain has taken the lead of others and shut down all school and universities in three cities including Madrid.
Anonymous
03/09/2020 18:41
Subject: Re:CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
Since ya'll think China is suspect, even the The WHO had a team out there for 9 days that praised their efforts. I'm sure you'll be more likely to believe this white, European Italian doctor on the front lines of this pandemic and the fact that their healthcare system is overloaded and on the brink of collapse. Remember 2 weeks ago when it started over there and they said they had it under control? Now doctors decide if you get treatment or you die.
Regarding this comment "We are choosing who gets intensive care and who doesn't, it's a lie that people don't die of coronavirus":
Q: So is it true?
"Indeed it is. In those beds [the triage room beds] only women and men with Covid-19 pneumonia, suffering from respiratory failure, are admitted. We send the rest of them home. '
Q: Then what happens?
«We put them in non-invasive ventilation, which is called Niv. That’s the first step ».
Q: What about the other steps?
«I come to the most important. In the early morning, the resuscitator passes by with the emergency room carers. His opinion is very important. "
Q: Why does it count so much?
"In addition to age and the general picture, the third element is the patient's ability to recover from an intensive care operation."
Q: What are we talking about?
"This Covid-19 cause interstitial pneumonia, a very aggressive form that hugely reduces the oxygenation of blood. The most affected patients become hypoxic, that is, they no longer have sufficient amounts of oxygen in the body. "
Q: When does the time to choose come?
«Soon after. We are obliged to do it. In a couple of days, at most. Non-invasive ventilation is only a passing phase. Since unfortunately there is disproportion between hospital resources, intensive care beds, and critically ill people, not all are intubated. "
Q: Is there a written rule?
«At the moment, despite what I read, no. As a rule, even if I realize that it is a bad word, patients with serious cardiorespiratory pathologies, and people with severe coronary artery problems, are carefully evaluated, because they tolerate acute hypoxia poorly and have little chance of surviving the critical phase ".
Q: Nothing else?
"If a person between 80 and 95 has severe respiratory failure, you probably won't proceed. If he has a multi-organic failure of more than three vital organs, it means that you have a one hundred percent mortality rate. You’re gone. »
Q: Do you let him go?
"This is also a terrible sentence. But unfortunately it is true.“
Q: Who is let go of Covid-19 or of previous pathologies?
“That they don't die of coronavirus is a bitter lie. It is not even respectful of those who leave us. They die of Covid-19, because in its critical form, interstitial pneumonia affects previous respiratory problems, and the patient can no longer bear the situation. The death is caused by the virus, not by anything else ».
Q: And you doctors, can you endure this situation?
«Some come out crushed. It happens to the primary, and to the newly arrived boy who finds himself in the early morning having to decide the fate of a human being. On a large scale, I repeat it ».
Q: Doesn't it bother you to be the arbiter of the life and death of a human being?
«For now I sleep at night. Because I know that the choice is based on the assumption that someone, almost always younger, is more likely to survive than the other. At least, it's a consolation ».
Q: What do you think of the latest government measures?
"Maybe they're a bit generic. The concept of closing the virus in certain areas is correct, but it arrives at least a week late. What really matters is another thing. "
Q: Which?
"Stay home. Stay home. I don't get tired of repeating it. I see too many people on the streets. The best answer to this virus is not to go around. You don't imagine what's going on in here. Stay home. "
Q: Is there a shortage of staff?
«We are all doing everything. We anesthetists perform support shifts in our operating room, which manages Bergamo, Brescia and Sondrio. Other ambulance doctors end up in the ward [triage room], today it's up to me ».
Q: In the big room?
"Exact. Many of my colleagues are accusing this situation. It is not only the workload, but the emotional one, which is devastating. I saw crying nurses with thirty years of experience behind them, people who have nervous breakdowns and suddenly start shaking. People don't know what's going on in hospitals, that's why I decided to talk to you. "
Q: Does the right to care still exist?
"Right now he is threatened by the fact that the system is unable to take on the ordinary and the extraordinary at the same time. So standard treatments can have serious delays ».
Q: Can you give me an example?
“Normally the call for a heart attack is processed in minutes. Now it can happen that you wait even for an hour or more. "
Q: Do you find an explanation for all this?
“I'm not looking for one. I tell myself it's like war surgery. We only try to save the skin of those who can do it. That's what's going on.”
https://www.corriere.it/cronache/20_marzo_09/coronavirus-scegliamo-chi-curare-chi-no-come-ogni-guerra-196f7d34-617d-11ea-8f33-90c941af0f23.shtml
Regarding this comment "We are choosing who gets intensive care and who doesn't, it's a lie that people don't die of coronavirus":
Q: So is it true?
"Indeed it is. In those beds [the triage room beds] only women and men with Covid-19 pneumonia, suffering from respiratory failure, are admitted. We send the rest of them home. '
Q: Then what happens?
«We put them in non-invasive ventilation, which is called Niv. That’s the first step ».
Q: What about the other steps?
«I come to the most important. In the early morning, the resuscitator passes by with the emergency room carers. His opinion is very important. "
Q: Why does it count so much?
"In addition to age and the general picture, the third element is the patient's ability to recover from an intensive care operation."
Q: What are we talking about?
"This Covid-19 cause interstitial pneumonia, a very aggressive form that hugely reduces the oxygenation of blood. The most affected patients become hypoxic, that is, they no longer have sufficient amounts of oxygen in the body. "
Q: When does the time to choose come?
«Soon after. We are obliged to do it. In a couple of days, at most. Non-invasive ventilation is only a passing phase. Since unfortunately there is disproportion between hospital resources, intensive care beds, and critically ill people, not all are intubated. "
Q: Is there a written rule?
«At the moment, despite what I read, no. As a rule, even if I realize that it is a bad word, patients with serious cardiorespiratory pathologies, and people with severe coronary artery problems, are carefully evaluated, because they tolerate acute hypoxia poorly and have little chance of surviving the critical phase ".
Q: Nothing else?
"If a person between 80 and 95 has severe respiratory failure, you probably won't proceed. If he has a multi-organic failure of more than three vital organs, it means that you have a one hundred percent mortality rate. You’re gone. »
Q: Do you let him go?
"This is also a terrible sentence. But unfortunately it is true.“
Q: Who is let go of Covid-19 or of previous pathologies?
“That they don't die of coronavirus is a bitter lie. It is not even respectful of those who leave us. They die of Covid-19, because in its critical form, interstitial pneumonia affects previous respiratory problems, and the patient can no longer bear the situation. The death is caused by the virus, not by anything else ».
Q: And you doctors, can you endure this situation?
«Some come out crushed. It happens to the primary, and to the newly arrived boy who finds himself in the early morning having to decide the fate of a human being. On a large scale, I repeat it ».
Q: Doesn't it bother you to be the arbiter of the life and death of a human being?
«For now I sleep at night. Because I know that the choice is based on the assumption that someone, almost always younger, is more likely to survive than the other. At least, it's a consolation ».
Q: What do you think of the latest government measures?
"Maybe they're a bit generic. The concept of closing the virus in certain areas is correct, but it arrives at least a week late. What really matters is another thing. "
Q: Which?
"Stay home. Stay home. I don't get tired of repeating it. I see too many people on the streets. The best answer to this virus is not to go around. You don't imagine what's going on in here. Stay home. "
Q: Is there a shortage of staff?
«We are all doing everything. We anesthetists perform support shifts in our operating room, which manages Bergamo, Brescia and Sondrio. Other ambulance doctors end up in the ward [triage room], today it's up to me ».
Q: In the big room?
"Exact. Many of my colleagues are accusing this situation. It is not only the workload, but the emotional one, which is devastating. I saw crying nurses with thirty years of experience behind them, people who have nervous breakdowns and suddenly start shaking. People don't know what's going on in hospitals, that's why I decided to talk to you. "
Q: Does the right to care still exist?
"Right now he is threatened by the fact that the system is unable to take on the ordinary and the extraordinary at the same time. So standard treatments can have serious delays ».
Q: Can you give me an example?
“Normally the call for a heart attack is processed in minutes. Now it can happen that you wait even for an hour or more. "
Q: Do you find an explanation for all this?
“I'm not looking for one. I tell myself it's like war surgery. We only try to save the skin of those who can do it. That's what's going on.”
https://www.corriere.it/cronache/20_marzo_09/coronavirus-scegliamo-chi-curare-chi-no-come-ogni-guerra-196f7d34-617d-11ea-8f33-90c941af0f23.shtml
Anonymous
03/09/2020 18:37
Subject: CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
Massachusetts is up to 41 presumptive cases. 32 of them are related to the Biogen conference - either attendees or their families.
Anonymous
03/09/2020 18:28
Subject: CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
Anonymous wrote:If someone has no KNOWN exposure, which/how many symptoms should they use as the trigger to contact a doctor?
Since there’s no known treatment right now, how about a) when you have a fever that won’t respond and/or b) you have trouble breathing.
Really, not much else to do.
Anonymous
03/09/2020 18:28
Subject: Re:CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
The Italy numbers are staggering. Look at this twitter thread
https://twitter.com/davidsteven/status/1237078411211874304?s=20
6% fatality/detected infections in Lombardy.
WHO found a v long lag from getting sick to dying in China - 2-8 weeks - which means people could just be beginning to die in Italy
The Italian data are eye opening (but surely - hopefully???) - reflecting a failure to detect most mild or asymptomatic cases:
1.4% under the age of 19, 22.0% 19-50 years, 37.4% 51-70 and 39.2% over 70, for a median age of 65. 62.1% are men.
Italy is restricting tests to the obviously ill but is finding...
10% cases asymptomatic, 5% with few and 30% with mild symptoms, 31% have symptoms, 6% are severe and 19% critical.
https://twitter.com/davidsteven/status/1237078411211874304?s=20
6% fatality/detected infections in Lombardy.
WHO found a v long lag from getting sick to dying in China - 2-8 weeks - which means people could just be beginning to die in Italy
The Italian data are eye opening (but surely - hopefully???) - reflecting a failure to detect most mild or asymptomatic cases:
1.4% under the age of 19, 22.0% 19-50 years, 37.4% 51-70 and 39.2% over 70, for a median age of 65. 62.1% are men.
Italy is restricting tests to the obviously ill but is finding...
10% cases asymptomatic, 5% with few and 30% with mild symptoms, 31% have symptoms, 6% are severe and 19% critical.
Anonymous
03/09/2020 18:25
Subject: CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
If someone has no KNOWN exposure, which/how many symptoms should they use as the trigger to contact a doctor?
Anonymous
03/09/2020 18:11
Subject: CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:When did she fly back to Australia? That would help us figure out just how bad it is in Aspen. If she flew back a couple weeks ago and caught it from community spread that long ago, they're in big trouble. If she just flew back it's harder to tell.
She probably connected in California for her flight to Australia. May have picked it up there too, or on the plane.
Again... s l o w l y ......how come so many her contacts in Aspen got sick?
Those Aspen test results come in tomorrow, and the hospital is expecting to report that there has been an outbreak.
-Horse’s mouth
Anonymous
03/09/2020 17:54
Subject: Re:CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:FWIW - Not trying to be a wise guy and did see the locked thread on this BUT heard from a credible medical professional in the infectious diseases space and she said she thought COVID 19 has been in the US since the late fall or early winter. She felt there has been too much travel and it’s too contagious for it to have taken long. Not sure what this means but she thinks it means that we need to wash our hands and stay smart but that we are already “in it” and need to carry on.
I actually believe this to be true. Remember all the 'we have an early flu season' and 'the vaccine is not well-matched', then 1/2 way into the season (I think when flu actually started in, in earnest) it WAS well-matched. Then there were comments about lots of 'false positives' on flu tests.
Patient 0 had it in Wuhan in November. So your timeline is wrong.
The “early flu season” in December was influenza B. I tested hundreds of patients positive for it. The “second wave” this past month or so is influenza A. Again - I have tested hundreds of patients positive for it. Neither “wave” was COVID-19. Unfortunately.
Oh- to add- I do remember a bunch of patients with flu like illness (fever, fatigue, cough) who were all testing negative for flu around October, and that seemed to last 3-4 weeks in my clinic (the wave of patients presenting, not the illness itself). But this was before even one person in China had it, so very unlikely.
That you know of. China lies
Scientist here. China did not lie on this. The person above who tested patients for flu is right.
China lies all the time, on damn near everything so long as it is in their interest. Don't trust anything out of a Beijing spokesman's mouth. They are now even trying to make it look like it was created in the USA and imported to China.
However, the virus itself isn't lying, and the virus DNA mutation tracks to a mid-November common ancestor.
https://bedford.io/blog/ncov-cryptic-transmission/
"All these genomes from Wuhan have a common ancestor in late Nov or early Dec, suggesting that this virus has emerged recently in the human population."
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/coronaviruss-genetics-reveal-its-global-travels-67183
"The first takeaway is that all these sequences are very, very similar, about eight mutations different than the root. That’s eight mutations in a 30,000-base sequence. What this tells us is that the virus came from one source, not too long ago, somewhere between mid-November and early December."
https://www.illumina.com/company/news-center/feature-articles/illumina-perspective-on-the-novel-coronavirus--covid-19--outbrea.html
"Analysis of the genomic information currently available, indicates SARS-CoV-2 is most closely related to a known bat SARS-like Coronavirus, indicating bats as the likely origin.3,4 Low variability between SARS-CoV-2 genomic sequences available, points toward a recent emergence in the human population in November-December 2019 and rapid detection after initial human infection."
Anonymous
03/09/2020 17:36
Subject: Re:CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
Anonymous wrote:Face facts that the government doesn’t care if you die. It saves them money. I learned this truth during cancer treatment.
They don’t care if YOU die. They care if LOTS of YOU die. Because angry family members will vote someone else in.
Anonymous
03/09/2020 17:29
Subject: Re:CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
Face facts that the government doesn’t care if you die. It saves them money. I learned this truth during cancer treatment.
Anonymous
03/09/2020 17:29
Subject: Re:CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:FWIW - Not trying to be a wise guy and did see the locked thread on this BUT heard from a credible medical professional in the infectious diseases space and she said she thought COVID 19 has been in the US since the late fall or early winter. She felt there has been too much travel and it’s too contagious for it to have taken long. Not sure what this means but she thinks it means that we need to wash our hands and stay smart but that we are already “in it” and need to carry on.
I actually believe this to be true. Remember all the 'we have an early flu season' and 'the vaccine is not well-matched', then 1/2 way into the season (I think when flu actually started in, in earnest) it WAS well-matched. Then there were comments about lots of 'false positives' on flu tests.
Patient 0 had it in Wuhan in November. So your timeline is wrong.
The “early flu season” in December was influenza B. I tested hundreds of patients positive for it. The “second wave” this past month or so is influenza A. Again - I have tested hundreds of patients positive for it. Neither “wave” was COVID-19. Unfortunately.
Oh- to add- I do remember a bunch of patients with flu like illness (fever, fatigue, cough) who were all testing negative for flu around October, and that seemed to last 3-4 weeks in my clinic (the wave of patients presenting, not the illness itself). But this was before even one person in China had it, so very unlikely.
the same folks who have not let the CDC into China to study the start, spread, etc? Umm Humm.
That you know of. China lies
Scientist here. China did not lie on this. The person above who tested patients for flu is right.
BS. China only tells us what they want us to know.
Sorry to intrude on your blind hate, but virologists, infectious disease experts and scientists from related fields have reviewed the data and the Chinese timeline makes complete sense. Research from Chinese scientists studying the epidemic has been published in the greatest international peer-reviewed scientific journals. Their data is solid.
Haven't the Chinese said no to the CDC taking a look around on the ground? Sounds science like. Political science that is.
They said no to the CDC “help”. I can’t blame them. The Chinese have handled this first, longest, and best. They’re the experts and we need their help, not the other way around.
Anonymous
03/09/2020 17:27
Subject: Re:CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:FWIW - Not trying to be a wise guy and did see the locked thread on this BUT heard from a credible medical professional in the infectious diseases space and she said she thought COVID 19 has been in the US since the late fall or early winter. She felt there has been too much travel and it’s too contagious for it to have taken long. Not sure what this means but she thinks it means that we need to wash our hands and stay smart but that we are already “in it” and need to carry on.
I actually believe this to be true. Remember all the 'we have an early flu season' and 'the vaccine is not well-matched', then 1/2 way into the season (I think when flu actually started in, in earnest) it WAS well-matched. Then there were comments about lots of 'false positives' on flu tests.
Patient 0 had it in Wuhan in November. So your timeline is wrong.
The “early flu season” in December was influenza B. I tested hundreds of patients positive for it. The “second wave” this past month or so is influenza A. Again - I have tested hundreds of patients positive for it. Neither “wave” was COVID-19. Unfortunately.
Oh- to add- I do remember a bunch of patients with flu like illness (fever, fatigue, cough) who were all testing negative for flu around October, and that seemed to last 3-4 weeks in my clinic (the wave of patients presenting, not the illness itself). But this was before even one person in China had it, so very unlikely.
the same folks who have not let the CDC into China to study the start, spread, etc? Umm Humm.
That you know of. China lies
Scientist here. China did not lie on this. The person above who tested patients for flu is right.
BS. China only tells us what they want us to know.
Sorry to intrude on your blind hate, but virologists, infectious disease experts and scientists from related fields have reviewed the data and the Chinese timeline makes complete sense. Research from Chinese scientists studying the epidemic has been published in the greatest international peer-reviewed scientific journals. Their data is solid.
Haven't the Chinese said no to the CDC taking a look around on the ground? Sounds science like. Political science that is.
Anonymous
03/09/2020 17:20
Subject: Re:CORONAVIRUS/COVID-19 NEW MEGA THREAD
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:FWIW - Not trying to be a wise guy and did see the locked thread on this BUT heard from a credible medical professional in the infectious diseases space and she said she thought COVID 19 has been in the US since the late fall or early winter. She felt there has been too much travel and it’s too contagious for it to have taken long. Not sure what this means but she thinks it means that we need to wash our hands and stay smart but that we are already “in it” and need to carry on.
I actually believe this to be true. Remember all the 'we have an early flu season' and 'the vaccine is not well-matched', then 1/2 way into the season (I think when flu actually started in, in earnest) it WAS well-matched. Then there were comments about lots of 'false positives' on flu tests.
Patient 0 had it in Wuhan in November. So your timeline is wrong.
The “early flu season” in December was influenza B. I tested hundreds of patients positive for it. The “second wave” this past month or so is influenza A. Again - I have tested hundreds of patients positive for it. Neither “wave” was COVID-19. Unfortunately.
Oh- to add- I do remember a bunch of patients with flu like illness (fever, fatigue, cough) who were all testing negative for flu around October, and that seemed to last 3-4 weeks in my clinic (the wave of patients presenting, not the illness itself). But this was before even one person in China had it, so very unlikely.
the same folks who have not let the CDC into China to study the start, spread, etc? Umm Humm.
That you know of. China lies
Scientist here. China did not lie on this. The person above who tested patients for flu is right.
BS. China only tells us what they want us to know.
Sorry to intrude on your blind hate, but virologists, infectious disease experts and scientists from related fields have reviewed the data and the Chinese timeline makes complete sense. Research from Chinese scientists studying the epidemic has been published in the greatest international peer-reviewed scientific journals. Their data is solid.