Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 10:06     Subject: Re:Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Be grateful that that is what you have to be concerned about.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 10:04     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of this panic from the parents is that when PSAT scores come out in 9th or 10th grade, they realize that their kids' private schools may not have given them the education they need to actually achieve strong results, or that they haven't really worked hard.

The PSAT/SAT are no longer solely tests of (supposed) aptitude or likeliness to succeed in college. There is specific content you need to master.

There is little to no standardized testing at these privates that cater to the wealthy. maybe they truly didn't know they kids were dim.



I would say "they haven't really worked hard" would be the credited response for most of these kids.

Even non-top-tier privates in the LA and SF/Silicon Valley areas have decent test prep programs.



I went to a non-top-tier private, and they still had test prep classes and stuff. A lot of kids were aiming instate for UC schools, which rely heavily on SAT scores, so test prep mattered.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 10:00     Subject: Re:Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Down falls another pillar of what used to make us better than many foreign lands.

This headline is THE definitive answer to all of those people who whine about affirmative action.


Affirmative action is for the poor to counter the bribes? Huh ?


This scandal shows that wealthy people are more than willing to use their privilege to cheat their way into institutions that they couldn't get into otherwise.

Black and Latino kids are usually assumed to have only gotten in because of their race.

But I can promise that no AA candidate's mom paid someone to boost their SAT score from 1020 to 1420 they way Huffman did.


Everybody that test preps is paying to boost their kids SAT score.


Come on, you can't seriously be comparing test prepping a student with someone fraudulently impersonating a student to take a test for them?


A test prepping student still needs to bust his ass! Prepping is hard work! How dare you equate that with cheating!


But what about the families that can't afford the prep. I went to one of those free "let me show you how we do this" seminars and it is dirty. Not illegal like this, but dirty. Showing kids every shortcut, what to look for, how to decipher and breakdown each question. Which passages to read, which ones to skip. How many X questions are on each test and how to learn those. The last 3 years trended this way. blah blah blah.

It is an upper hand to those that go to those prep courses. Not to mention the $100/hr tutors that come to your house to find every angle to get you a better score. Even families living her making $100K to $250K have no idea what the rest of the country is like. Maybe you didn't bribe people, but you allowed your child everything they needed. No working during the school year (my kid is "sooooo" busy!) You made sure they got into top private schools and paid for it. You went over all the forms 10X over and made sure your kids applied IB and magnet. You decided where you would live in relation to schools/education. You pushed until they got into the classes they needed for a inflated GPA. You paid for educational camps and clubs. You made their applications "well rounded" with tons of EC's. You have the money to allow the kids to take it multiple times and get tutors/prep between each one to micromanage it into a better score.

I mean even having the time to read to your kid is more than many poor and lower middle class families have time or event the means to do. Handing them activities as kids, money each week for doing nothing is entitlement. I mean how many seniors have never worked a job, but have cars in the school parking lot? Entitlement. YOU just don't see it that way because you have surrounded yourself with similar people.

Many kids can not do EC's because they work 30 hours a week while going to high school full time. This helps keep food on the table for their family. Many could never in a million years get test prep or tutors, let alone a book to help them study on their own. Many go home to no heat or electricity. Many are fosters or homeless. Or basically parentless with drugged out families.

College admissions will never be even be close to even unless they took every kid to a boarding school away from their families (for better or worse) and teach them there. No money given. They apply on their own to colleges. But that will never happen.

So at the very least, they need to stop inflated grades. Stop allowing so many retakes of standardized tests. Stop making EC's such a big deal. Stop allowing donations and legacy to have any merit on a child's worth into a college. And for the love of God, get rid of the ED and ED2 that are also for only the rich. So corrupt.


So, serious question - are you suggesting any of this is wrong?

I make a good living. Not private jet good living, but I do well. HHI is in the mid 6 figures. I am smart, and work hard. Really hard. And yes, I know that a lot of people who work hard and are smart don't do nearly as well as I do. I am also lucky and privileged. I get it. But . . . does that mean I shouldn't give my kid nice things, or things that will help her? She should have to work 30 hours a week, and turn over her earnings to pay for groceries? Should I structure her life so she has the same challenges as homeless kids?

I get that things are not equal. And I am all for this nirvana you describe where everything is exactly equal - she's smart as a whip, and will do as well as any other kid, and better than the vast majority of them. But, that's not the world in which we live. And like it or not, her primary competition for many of these college spots will be kids like her, who have educated parents who care about education and try to help their kids. So I'm not going to deny her things and put her at a disadvantage out of some pie-in-the-sky devotion to perfect justice. I'll give her all the support, encouragement and resources I have available. And I may even spoil her a bit. I won't resort to illegal activity, and we're not in a position to donate buildings to schools, but I'll give her every advantage that I can, and not lose a minute's sleep over it.

Are you suggesting I should act differently?


I agree with the PP 1000%. I get its unequal, and would like to see things change. This scandal is disgusting and I hope all these people are prosecuted and brought to task for the shameless privilege they exploited. However, I'm beyond sick and tired of having to make excuses, or have people TRY to make me feel guilty, for the things that I can provide for my child because we work and make a decent living.

What should people who have the means refrain from doing (outside of illegal activity obviously)? I can afford to get my child a tutor and take a prep course. Should I not do that? I can afford for my child to participate in EC activities. Should I not do that, tell her she can't play on the travel team she earned a spot on because she has to go get a job at age 16? Should I tell her she has to help pay for groceries? Not have a birthday party? Can't go to study group with her friends?

Things indeed need to be more equitable, but I should not have to bring my childs life down to the meet the experience of our country's poorest kids in order to make things more equitable. That is just not reality. What can we do to help level the playing field that doesn't involve some superhuman level of taking vows of poverty or agreeing to not enjoy any benefit for things we work for? I honestly want to know.


Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 09:55     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plotdoing these
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Baudrillard might call this scandal a simulation effect, right? Pretending it’s a scandal that the system is rigged and breaks in favor of the powerful who can pay to play masks the fact that in fact it’s biz as usual.

The guy at the center set it up as a fake charity so the parents’ payments to him would be tax deductible... these are all practices from the .1% playbook.

Anthropologist Laura Nadar’s essay “Studying Up” about how wealthy people hold on to their cultural/capital in part by not allowing anyone to know their culture or cultural practices (hard for anthros and sociologists to study the wealthy) feels so relevant.

This is a less subtle version of what has been happening for years. Endow a building football stadium and library and your grand/kids get in. And you seem magnanimous. But this, too, is cheating.


One of the most fascinating comments


Agree this is fascinating. But I’d argue that the real cultural capital is knowing subtle, legal ways of doing these things. Knowing a Sidwell trustee who can write a letter to get your kid in. Getting the school’s guidance staff to pitch Yale about your ability to make huge donations. Guessing the Trumps and Kushners did a slightly cruder version of this, getting a lackey to call up Penn and Harvard to offer big money. Still, both of these make the illegal California scheme seem bush league.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 09:53     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of this panic from the parents is that when PSAT scores come out in 9th or 10th grade, they realize that their kids' private schools may not have given them the education they need to actually achieve strong results, or that they haven't really worked hard.

The PSAT/SAT are no longer solely tests of (supposed) aptitude or likeliness to succeed in college. There is specific content you need to master.

There is little to no standardized testing at these privates that cater to the wealthy. maybe they truly didn't know they kids were dim.



I would say "they haven't really worked hard" would be the credited response for most of these kids.

Even non-top-tier privates in the LA and SF/Silicon Valley areas have decent test prep programs.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 09:47     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Since the announcement of the college admissions bribery scandal, many are resurfacing the story of Kelley Williams-Bolar, a black mother who used her father’s address so that her children could attend a better performing school. She was convicted of a felony and sentence to jail.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 09:46     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
I wonder how much of this panic from the parents is that when PSAT scores come out in 9th or 10th grade, they realize that their kids' private schools may not have given them the education they need to actually achieve strong results, or that they haven't really worked hard.

The PSAT/SAT are no longer solely tests of (supposed) aptitude or likeliness to succeed in college. There is specific content you need to master.

There is little to no standardized testing at these privates that cater to the wealthy. maybe they truly didn't know they kids were dim.

Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 09:40     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:Baudrillard might call this scandal a simulation effect, right? Pretending it’s a scandal that the system is rigged and breaks in favor of the powerful who can pay to play masks the fact that in fact it’s biz as usual.

The guy at the center set it up as a fake charity so the parents’ payments to him would be tax deductible... these are all practices from the .1% playbook.

Anthropologist Laura Nadar’s essay “Studying Up” about how wealthy people hold on to their cultural/capital in part by not allowing anyone to know their culture or cultural practices (hard for anthros and sociologists to study the wealthy) feels so relevant.

This is a less subtle version of what has been happening for years. Endow a building football stadium and library and your grand/kids get in. And you seem magnanimous. But this, too, is cheating.


One of the most fascinating comments
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 09:31     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
The guy running this also sounds like a scam artist skilled in ripping off gullible rich. As noted previously in thread, the parents or their lawyer could have literally called up advancement themselves and said I’d like to pledge $500,000 and I guarantee their kid would have gotten into these schools.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 09:28     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
The cheating is far more widespread than this viral event. Their scam sounds ignorant and amateur hour, which tells me there are far more sophisticated and widespread scams in other rich domestic and international areas.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 09:24     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
The family turned out badly because the kids are idle rich with trust funds. Why work if you know for a fact you don’t have to? This is what our duopoly political system cultivates with little to no inheritance tax, tax havens, capital gains, family foundations.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 09:11     Subject: Re:Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:New York Post article: Son of Abbotts defend his parents saying, "I believe everyone has a right to college, man."

https://nypost.com/2019/03/13/son-defends-parents-caught-in-college-admissions-scandal-while-smoking-blunt/



The NYPost article did the family no favors. In a way I'm feeling slight sympathy for the parents, if the two boys turned out so badly and useless despite all their advantages in life perhaps that was why they were desperate to get their daughter into a decent track.


The two boys turned out badly because they have shitty parents who think that money is a substitute for actual parenting.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 08:55     Subject: Re:Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:New York Post article: Son of Abbotts defend his parents saying, "I believe everyone has a right to college, man."

https://nypost.com/2019/03/13/son-defends-parents-caught-in-college-admissions-scandal-while-smoking-blunt/



You buried the lead... he was smoking a blunt. Real life has become an Onion article.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 08:44     Subject: Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:I guess no remorse....just at being caught!

https://nypost.com/2019/03/13/son-defends-parents-caught-in-college-admissions-scandal-while-smoking-blunt/


I see the defense here shaping up though; they [the parents] got roped into this thing by that guy who made his business out of cheating.
Anonymous
Post 03/14/2019 08:42     Subject: Re:Feds uncover large-scale college entrance exam cheating plot
Anonymous wrote:New York Post article: Son of Abbotts defend his parents saying, "I believe everyone has a right to college, man."

https://nypost.com/2019/03/13/son-defends-parents-caught-in-college-admissions-scandal-while-smoking-blunt/



The NYPost article did the family no favors. In a way I'm feeling slight sympathy for the parents, if the two boys turned out so badly and useless despite all their advantages in life perhaps that was why they were desperate to get their daughter into a decent track.