Anonymous wrote:

Please also explain why the idea that one of the problems with education is inconsistent and varying standards is false.

Because there is no data to support the fact that standards are the problem. Plenty of data to support other issues as the problem.

Please explain further. Is it that you oppose the idea of any standards? Or that you think that the standards that the states had before the Common Core standards were just fine? Or...?

No, the Common Core standards assume that one of the problems with education is inconsistent and varying standards. Not the only problem. Not even necessarily the major problem. Just one of the problems.

Yes, that might be a problem (I'm not really convinced). No matter what, the effort spent in discussing CC compared to the impact the standards will have is disproportional. It is taking away from discussion of other problems that impact children's ability to learn in school. It is also sucking a lot of money compared to the significance of the problem of "inconsistent and varying standards". Who would think this problem would be so high on the list for money compared to others?

This problem of "inconsistent and varying standards" is a major concern that is harming many students now? Do you have any proof that these CC "higher standards" will increase PISA scores?

Please also explain why the idea that one of the problems with education is inconsistent and varying standards is false.

Because there is no data to support the fact that standards are the problem. Plenty of data to support other issues as the problem.

Anonymous wrote:All I know is that the US is getting their butt kicked in the international PISA tests in math, science, and reading. We used to be first and now we are in the middle.

Either our kids are getting dumber or our schools are letting them down.

Nope -- we've never been good at the PISA tests. And yet it has hardly hindered America's economy:


http://dianeravitch.net/2013/12/03/my-view-of-the-pisa-scores/


Here is the background history that you need to know to interpret the PISA score release, as well as Secretary Duncan’s calculated effort to whip up national hysteria about our standing in the international league tables.

The U.S. has NEVER been first in the world, nor even near the top, on international tests.

Over the past half century, our students have typically scored at or near the median, or even in the bottom quartile.

International testing began in the mid-1960s with a test of mathematics. The First International Mathematics Study tested 13-year-olds and high-school seniors in 12 nations. American 13-year-olds scored significantly lower than students in nine other countries and ahead of students in only one. On a test given only to students currently enrolled in a math class, the U.S. students scored last, behind those in the 11 other nations. On a test given to seniors not currently enrolled in a math class, the U.S. students again scored last.

Anonymous wrote:

the Common Core standards assume that one of the problems with education is inconsistent and varying standards

And, that's the problem with Common Core. Please provide data to support this assumption. It's not a problem.

First the problem with the Common Core standards are that they don't fix the social problems in the US, now the problem with the Common Core standards is that inconsistent and varying standards are not a problem -- if you are the same poster, please make up your mind.

Please also explain why the idea that one of the problems with education is inconsistent and varying standards is false.

Anonymous wrote:

The government needs to point out the real problems to the people of this country. This country was actually competing better when it gave more social supports (which have been taken away). We will never get back to that unless we talk about the real problems. As long as the government keeps saying that it's the schools' fault or the teachers' fault, the problems will remain and money will be spent the wrong ways. We can strengthen schools, yes. But if we don't pay attention to other parts of a child's life, we will never rise to the top with the tests. The school is not the center of the child's life (nor the most important social unit). The family is. Children spend way more time at home and in the community than they do in the schools. The family gives the emotional support that is necessary for any kind of success. A teacher cannot give that to a student---even the very best teacher cannot do that.

The people in this country are not interested in the real problems. There is no popular support for the policies you're calling for.

the Common Core standards assume that one of the problems with education is inconsistent and varying standards

And, that's the problem with Common Core. Please provide data to support this assumption. It's not a problem.

The government needs to point out the real problems to the people of this country. This country was actually competing better when it gave more social supports (which have been taken away). We will never get back to that unless we talk about the real problems. As long as the government keeps saying that it's the schools' fault or the teachers' fault, the problems will remain and money will be spent the wrong ways. We can strengthen schools, yes. But if we don't pay attention to other parts of a child's life, we will never rise to the top with the tests. The school is not the center of the child's life (nor the most important social unit). The family is. Children spend way more time at home and in the community than they do in the schools. The family gives the emotional support that is necessary for any kind of success. A teacher cannot give that to a student---even the very best teacher cannot do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody has said that it would.

Can't improve it either. That's the problem with Common Core: it assumes the problem with education is the lack of good standards. That's not the problem.

No, the Common Core standards assume that one of the problems with education is inconsistent and varying standards. Not the only problem. Not even necessarily the major problem. Just one of the problems.

There is no one single problem in education -- or do you think that there is? If so, what is it, and what single action will solve it?

Nobody has said that it would.

Can't improve it either. That's the problem with Common Core: it assumes the problem with education is the lack of good standards. That's not the problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Here is an interesting article on single parent households (also another factor where the US is not doing as well). What I find interesting is not so much how many single parent households we have (which is a lot), but how many of those single parents are working at least full time when compared to countries like Germany and the Netherlands. The difference is HUGE. In those other countries a single parent is much more likely to be working part-time. That makes a big difference to a child. It could be that those countries have systems in place to support these parents better.

You can also see that Finland has the least single parent homes. That's interesting because they score the highest on the PISA.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/single-parents-around-the-world/

The Common Core can't change this stuff.

Nobody has said that it would.

Here is an interesting article on single parent households (also another factor where the US is not doing as well). What I find interesting is not so much how many single parent households we have (which is a lot), but how many of those single parents are working at least full time when compared to countries like Germany and the Netherlands. The difference is HUGE. In those other countries a single parent is much more likely to be working part-time. That makes a big difference to a child. It could be that those countries have systems in place to support these parents better.

You can also see that Finland has the least single parent homes. That's interesting because they score the highest on the PISA.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/single-parents-around-the-world/


The Common Core can't change this stuff.

As far as the PISA goes, we are competing against countries that:

give paid maternity leave as national policy (while we don't)

have free national preschool for all children

do not have nearly the percentage of immigrant children who don't speak their first language as we have

do not have nearly the income divide that we do

have had national health insurance for decades

give teachers more planning time and less instructional time on average (60% instructional vs. 80% instructional in the US)

only send in test scores from certain schools in their countries



So . . . after you take all of that into account and realize that we are not being compared to apples, we look pretty dang good.

We have some excellent public schools in America and some incredible students coming out of them. Go into those schools and check it out.

We do have some work to do in poorer areas of this country, but that work is not all inside the schools (by any stretch).

I have a friend in Australia. In Australia all babies are monitored from birth on. A community health nurse visits all homes regularly and has "meetings" for groups of new parents who live in the same area. The parents not only know each other from day one (and can support each other), they know how to take care of the children and keep them physically and mentally healthy. The nurse meanwhile can observe any problems early. Why can't we do this in the US? I think it would go a long way toward better outcomes.

All I know is that the US is getting their butt kicked in the international PISA tests in math, science, and reading. We used to be first and now we are in the middle.

Either our kids are getting dumber or our schools are letting them down.

If those are your only two choices, you have done a very thorough analysis of the issue.

Either our kids are getting dumber or our schools are letting them down.

Or.......we test ALL our kids, while other countries only test their university bound kids.