I can't find anything saying Sawyer infected anyone on the plane. And anyway, he was extremely sick when he flew and I don't think anyone thinks someone in that condition shouldn't be quarantined. He clearly should have.

But there is a huge difference between someone who is very sick with Ebola, or even slightly sick, and someone who has no signs of illness at all.

Here's some science. Assuming that Lancet is an acceptable source for most everyone here.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10881895/

Abstract
BACKGROUND: Ebola virus is one of the most virulent pathogens, killing a very high proportion of patients within 5-7 days. Two outbreaks of fulminating haemorrhagic fever occurred in northern Gabon in 1996, with a 70% case-fatality rate. During both outbreaks we identified some individuals in direct contact with sick patients who never developed symptoms. We aimed to determine whether these individuals were indeed infected with Ebola virus, and how they maintained asymptomatic status.

...
INTERPRETATION: This study showed that asymptomatic, replicative Ebola infection can and does occur in human beings. The lack of genetic differences between symptomatic and asymptomatic individuals suggest that asymptomatic Ebola infection did not result from viral mutations. Elucidation of the factors related to the genesis of the strong inflammatory response occurring early during the infectious process in these asymptomatic individuals could increase our understanding of the disease.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would absolutely welcome that nurse caring for me or my child. She poses no risk. None. All we know is that she is selfless and willing to put herself in danger to help those most desperate. She's a hero, in my eyes. I'd give her a hug right now if I got the chance.

+1 Wouldn't hug the nurse, but not because of Ebola. She is a dud starving for attention, that's all there is to it.

Anonymous wrote:Its not 70% fatal in the US, not even close. Everyone but Duncan has survived.

This is so much like the early days of HIV when kids were hounded out of classrooms and funeral homes wouldn't bury the dead. The arguments were similar. "Well the kid could cut himself and bleed or blah blah blah." It was a pretty ugly time.

We need to take precautions but we also need to not give in to fear. Imprisoning healthy people who gave of themselves in Africa is giving in to fear.

Grow some.

If ebola only could be transmitted the same way as HIV and had as long a incubation period, then your analogy might be apt. Ebola is highly infectious, HIV is not. Ebola kills within days, AIDs (untreated) takes months or years.

If anything, our response as a country to HIV was too slow, at least from a public health perspective. Too little money spent early on, waiting to long to close the bath houses, etc. . . If we learned anything from AIDS, it should be to stop the epidemic before it starts.

Its not 70% fatal in the US, not even close. Everyone but Duncan has survived.

This is so much like the early days of HIV when kids were hounded out of classrooms and funeral homes wouldn't bury the dead. The arguments were similar. "Well the kid could cut himself and bleed or blah blah blah." It was a pretty ugly time.

We need to take precautions but we also need to not give in to fear. Imprisoning healthy people who gave of themselves in Africa is giving in to fear.

Grow some.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wtf http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/30/cdc-ebola_n_6078072.html

First of all, Huff Post has posted quite a few articles claiming vaccines cause autism. So take anything you read there with a grain of salt.

Second, the point is that Ebola is NOT airborne. This whole think about droplets would mislead the public. NO ONE has contracted Ebola from a sneeze.

You don't know if anyone has contracted it through sneezing.

The science says it is in saliva and mucus. And if that is wrong, the conclusion becomes: we don't know all of "the science" yet.

But we're importing it anyway through casual travel and individual HCW traveling as they please. Hickox wants to bike. Spencer and Vinson chose subway, plane. Do we know their moment of contagiousness?

Sitting next to someone is not going to make you sick. Sitting next to someone bleeding, vomiting or crapping all over the place would be contagious. You don't get a fever and start spewing bodily fluids on the same day. That didn't happen with any of the people who've caught it by self monitoring. They get a fever and report it, having infected no one along the way.

Google "Patrick Sawyer," read about the 19 people he infected, directly or indirectly, and then get back to us. Sometimes, people are in denial and continue to go about their daily activities. Dr. Spencer came darn close to doing the same, and that's why he initially lied about the extent of his movements to first responders.

So I did google "Patrick Sawyer" and the people he infected all had direct contact with him. So many HCWs got infected because he lied about his exposure to Ebola and they thought he had malaria - plus he urinated on them. But the 200+ people on the planes with him, when he had diarrhea and vomiting - NONE OF THEM GOT EBOLA. So just chill - it' not that easy to get Ebola.

The people who were sent to pick him up from the airport by the conference he was attending did get it, guess you didn't read enough or are just reading what suits your conclusion. They weren't health care workers.

Sawyer was seriously ill when he left Monrovia, so it's no surprise that he was infectious. The fact is, people who are not symptomatic are not infectious. None of your grandstanding changes that.

I also would give the nurse a hug if I could. She's not only not infectious; she doesn't even have Ebola, as far as anyone can tell.

If you aren't quarantining those most likely to become symptomatic, you stand a chance of not catching them before the transition. It's not grandstanding, it's common sense. That's why the CDC has been quarantining non health care workers with direct contact. The differential treatment between health care workers and others with direct contact is for policy reasons, not science reasons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wtf http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/30/cdc-ebola_n_6078072.html

First of all, Huff Post has posted quite a few articles claiming vaccines cause autism. So take anything you read there with a grain of salt.

Second, the point is that Ebola is NOT airborne. This whole think about droplets would mislead the public. NO ONE has contracted Ebola from a sneeze.

You don't know if anyone has contracted it through sneezing.

The science says it is in saliva and mucus. And if that is wrong, the conclusion becomes: we don't know all of "the science" yet.

But we're importing it anyway through casual travel and individual HCW traveling as they please. Hickox wants to bike. Spencer and Vinson chose subway, plane. Do we know their moment of contagiousness?

Sitting next to someone is not going to make you sick. Sitting next to someone bleeding, vomiting or crapping all over the place would be contagious. You don't get a fever and start spewing bodily fluids on the same day. That didn't happen with any of the people who've caught it by self monitoring. They get a fever and report it, having infected no one along the way.

Here's my problem: human error. There are a couple of days before the "crash and bleed out" where symptoms are gradually rising because viral load is rising. Like when Spencer was wandering the city. We are expecting an enormous amount of responsibility from the next infected person, be it a returning HCW or another Duncan. We are assuming that protocol will be followed meticulously. And I am not comfortable because of the past errors that have been made-- errors by Dallas Pres., Spencer, etc.

Amber Vinson reportedly called CDC before boarding her return flight to Dallas. Said her temp was 99.5. Said she was a Presby nurse and part of the team that treated Duncan. WHY did she get the clear FROM CDC to use public transport?? Another human error. It could have been worse.

My kids deserve better, sorry. If CDC can't get the science straight (scrubbing transmission info from their site), we cannot be sure other errors will not happen in the future. 70% fatality rate at this point.

Good luck trying to find an error-free society to live in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wtf http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/30/cdc-ebola_n_6078072.html

First of all, Huff Post has posted quite a few articles claiming vaccines cause autism. So take anything you read there with a grain of salt.

Second, the point is that Ebola is NOT airborne. This whole think about droplets would mislead the public. NO ONE has contracted Ebola from a sneeze.

You don't know if anyone has contracted it through sneezing.

The science says it is in saliva and mucus. And if that is wrong, the conclusion becomes: we don't know all of "the science" yet.

But we're importing it anyway through casual travel and individual HCW traveling as they please. Hickox wants to bike. Spencer and Vinson chose subway, plane. Do we know their moment of contagiousness?

Sitting next to someone is not going to make you sick. Sitting next to someone bleeding, vomiting or crapping all over the place would be contagious. You don't get a fever and start spewing bodily fluids on the same day. That didn't happen with any of the people who've caught it by self monitoring. They get a fever and report it, having infected no one along the way.

Google "Patrick Sawyer," read about the 19 people he infected, directly or indirectly, and then get back to us. Sometimes, people are in denial and continue to go about their daily activities. Dr. Spencer came darn close to doing the same, and that's why he initially lied about the extent of his movements to first responders.

I too googled him. I can't find any reports that he infected anyone be being next to them on a bus or subway, not even on the airplane.

Is there anyone in Nigeria who contracted ebola outside of the hospital?

Yes. the people who picked Sawyer up at the airport to take him to his conference and took him to the hospital instead were infected. He was never on a bus. The people he had direct casual contact with at the airport did get it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wtf http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/30/cdc-ebola_n_6078072.html

First of all, Huff Post has posted quite a few articles claiming vaccines cause autism. So take anything you read there with a grain of salt.

Second, the point is that Ebola is NOT airborne. This whole think about droplets would mislead the public. NO ONE has contracted Ebola from a sneeze.

You don't know if anyone has contracted it through sneezing.

The science says it is in saliva and mucus. And if that is wrong, the conclusion becomes: we don't know all of "the science" yet.

But we're importing it anyway through casual travel and individual HCW traveling as they please. Hickox wants to bike. Spencer and Vinson chose subway, plane. Do we know their moment of contagiousness?

Sitting next to someone is not going to make you sick. Sitting next to someone bleeding, vomiting or crapping all over the place would be contagious. You don't get a fever and start spewing bodily fluids on the same day. That didn't happen with any of the people who've caught it by self monitoring. They get a fever and report it, having infected no one along the way.

Here's my problem: human error. There are a couple of days before the "crash and bleed out" where symptoms are gradually rising because viral load is rising. Like when Spencer was wandering the city. We are expecting an enormous amount of responsibility from the next infected person, be it a returning HCW or another Duncan. We are assuming that protocol will be followed meticulously. And I am not comfortable because of the past errors that have been made-- errors by Dallas Pres., Spencer, etc.

Amber Vinson reportedly called CDC before boarding her return flight to Dallas. Said her temp was 99.5. Said she was a Presby nurse and part of the team that treated Duncan. WHY did she get the clear FROM CDC to use public transport?? Another human error. It could have been worse.

My kids deserve better, sorry. If CDC can't get the science straight (scrubbing transmission info from their site), we cannot be sure other errors will not happen in the future. 70% fatality rate at this point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wtf http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/30/cdc-ebola_n_6078072.html

First of all, Huff Post has posted quite a few articles claiming vaccines cause autism. So take anything you read there with a grain of salt.

Second, the point is that Ebola is NOT airborne. This whole think about droplets would mislead the public. NO ONE has contracted Ebola from a sneeze.

You don't know if anyone has contracted it through sneezing.

The science says it is in saliva and mucus. And if that is wrong, the conclusion becomes: we don't know all of "the science" yet.

But we're importing it anyway through casual travel and individual HCW traveling as they please. Hickox wants to bike. Spencer and Vinson chose subway, plane. Do we know their moment of contagiousness?

Sitting next to someone is not going to make you sick. Sitting next to someone bleeding, vomiting or crapping all over the place would be contagious. You don't get a fever and start spewing bodily fluids on the same day. That didn't happen with any of the people who've caught it by self monitoring. They get a fever and report it, having infected no one along the way.

Google "Patrick Sawyer," read about the 19 people he infected, directly or indirectly, and then get back to us. Sometimes, people are in denial and continue to go about their daily activities. Dr. Spencer came darn close to doing the same, and that's why he initially lied about the extent of his movements to first responders.

I too googled him. I can't find any reports that he infected anyone be being next to them on a bus or subway, not even on the airplane.

Is there anyone in Nigeria who contracted ebola outside of the hospital?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wtf http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/30/cdc-ebola_n_6078072.html

First of all, Huff Post has posted quite a few articles claiming vaccines cause autism. So take anything you read there with a grain of salt.

Second, the point is that Ebola is NOT airborne. This whole think about droplets would mislead the public. NO ONE has contracted Ebola from a sneeze.

You don't know if anyone has contracted it through sneezing.

The science says it is in saliva and mucus. And if that is wrong, the conclusion becomes: we don't know all of "the science" yet.

But we're importing it anyway through casual travel and individual HCW traveling as they please. Hickox wants to bike. Spencer and Vinson chose subway, plane. Do we know their moment of contagiousness?

Sitting next to someone is not going to make you sick. Sitting next to someone bleeding, vomiting or crapping all over the place would be contagious. You don't get a fever and start spewing bodily fluids on the same day. That didn't happen with any of the people who've caught it by self monitoring. They get a fever and report it, having infected no one along the way.

Google "Patrick Sawyer," read about the 19 people he infected, directly or indirectly, and then get back to us. Sometimes, people are in denial and continue to go about their daily activities. Dr. Spencer came darn close to doing the same, and that's why he initially lied about the extent of his movements to first responders.

So I did google "Patrick Sawyer" and the people he infected all had direct contact with him. So many HCWs got infected because he lied about his exposure to Ebola and they thought he had malaria - plus he urinated on them. But the 200+ people on the planes with him, when he had diarrhea and vomiting - NONE OF THEM GOT EBOLA. So just chill - it' not that easy to get Ebola.

The people who were sent to pick him up from the airport by the conference he was attending did get it, guess you didn't read enough or are just reading what suits your conclusion. They weren't health care workers.

Sawyer was seriously ill when he left Monrovia, so it's no surprise that he was infectious. The fact is, people who are not symptomatic are not infectious. None of your grandstanding changes that.

I also would give the nurse a hug if I could. She's not only not infectious; she doesn't even have Ebola, as far as anyone can tell.

Anonymous wrote:I would absolutely welcome that nurse caring for me or my child. She poses no risk. None. All we know is that she is selfless and willing to put herself in danger to help those most desperate. She's a hero, in my eyes. I'd give her a hug right now if I got the chance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wtf http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/30/cdc-ebola_n_6078072.html

First of all, Huff Post has posted quite a few articles claiming vaccines cause autism. So take anything you read there with a grain of salt.

Second, the point is that Ebola is NOT airborne. This whole think about droplets would mislead the public. NO ONE has contracted Ebola from a sneeze.

You don't know if anyone has contracted it through sneezing.

The science says it is in saliva and mucus. And if that is wrong, the conclusion becomes: we don't know all of "the science" yet.

But we're importing it anyway through casual travel and individual HCW traveling as they please. Hickox wants to bike. Spencer and Vinson chose subway, plane. Do we know their moment of contagiousness?

Sitting next to someone is not going to make you sick. Sitting next to someone bleeding, vomiting or crapping all over the place would be contagious. You don't get a fever and start spewing bodily fluids on the same day. That didn't happen with any of the people who've caught it by self monitoring. They get a fever and report it, having infected no one along the way.

Google "Patrick Sawyer," read about the 19 people he infected, directly or indirectly, and then get back to us. Sometimes, people are in denial and continue to go about their daily activities. Dr. Spencer came darn close to doing the same, and that's why he initially lied about the extent of his movements to first responders.

So I did google "Patrick Sawyer" and the people he infected all had direct contact with him. So many HCWs got infected because he lied about his exposure to Ebola and they thought he had malaria - plus he urinated on them. But the 200+ people on the planes with him, when he had diarrhea and vomiting - NONE OF THEM GOT EBOLA. So just chill - it' not that easy to get Ebola.

The people who were sent to pick him up from the airport by the conference he was attending did get it, guess you didn't read enough or are just reading what suits your conclusion. They weren't health care workers.

I would absolutely welcome that nurse caring for me or my child. She poses no risk. None. All we know is that she is selfless and willing to put herself in danger to help those most desperate. She's a hero, in my eyes. I'd give her a hug right now if I got the chance.

This is too much theory. When the push comes to shove, none of you will want that nurse attending to your kid.