Anonymous wrote:Threads has gone on for 86 pages but apart from the obvious nod to Stanford and the tech nerds (who should be off getting a patent, not posting on DCUM) constantly trying to boost Caltech and MIT, it's just one long variation of Gossip Girl: "Everyone knows that the only real Ivies are the Holy Trinity: Harvard, Yale, and Princeton."

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Anonymous wrote:All these rankings are meaningless. Everyone knows there about 10 schools that open doors - Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Yale, MIT, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Brown maybe a couple of others.

*This*

Swap Cornell and brown with duke and caltech and yes

Caltech I'd agree with adding generally. Duke, not so much unless you are a member of the Brotherhood.
I've worked for a few very selective employers, and Stanford and Harvard are the two that really seem to open doors over the last decade. MIT and Caltech as well for technical roles and Penn and Yale in finance and marketing. Otherwise, the names are nice but not really distinguished from another 10 schools.
Princeton is the one that I've been a little surprised by not doing quite as well (I would have expected more of the Harvard/Stanford response), though their alums are tight and I've noticed hire one another directly more than other similar schools (I wonder if this is what makes others a little suspect generally to be honest). Columbia also tends to do better than Cornell, Brown, and Dartmouth, though that could be due to the industry and Dartmouth is small too. Dartmouth and Swarthmore are the two smaller schools I've been most impressed with. Beyond a few huge name schools though, I observed that it is more industry and type of role specific.

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Anonymous wrote:All these rankings are meaningless. Everyone knows there about 10 schools that open doors - Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Yale, MIT, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Brown maybe a couple of others.

*This*

Swap Cornell and brown with duke and caltech and yes

Caltech I'd agree with adding generally. Duke, not so much unless you are a member of the Brotherhood.
I've worked for a few very selective employers, and Stanford and Harvard are the two that really seem to open doors over the last decade. MIT and Caltech as well for technical roles and Penn and Yale in finance and marketing. Otherwise, the names are nice but not really distinguished from another 10 schools.
Princeton is the one that I've been a little surprised by not doing quite as well (I would have expected more of the Harvard/Stanford response), though their alums are tight and I've noticed hire one another directly more than other similar schools (I wonder if this is what makes others a little suspect generally to be honest). Columbia also tends to do better than Cornell, Brown, and Dartmouth, though that could be due to the industry and Dartmouth is small too. Dartmouth and Swarthmore are the two smaller schools I've been most impressed with. Beyond a few huge name schools though, I observed that it is more industry and type of role specific.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:All these rankings are meaningless. Everyone knows there about 10 schools that open doors - Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Yale, MIT, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Brown maybe a couple of others.

*This*

Swap Cornell and brown with duke and caltech and yes

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All these rankings are meaningless. Everyone knows there about 10 schools that open doors - Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Yale, MIT, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Brown maybe a couple of others.

*This*

Anonymous wrote:All these rankings are meaningless. Everyone knows there about 10 schools that open doors - Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Yale, MIT, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Brown maybe a couple of others.

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Anonymous wrote:Regardless of what you all think, Princeton is the finest undergrad institution in the country.

++10000000
Sour grapes for most of those who doth protest most angrily

We toured Princeton, and DC didn't like it. This "eating" club takes the cake, pardon the pun.

Anonymous wrote:All these rankings are meaningless. Everyone knows there about 10 schools that open doors - Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Yale, MIT, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell, Brown maybe a couple of others.

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Anonymous wrote:Regardless of what you all think, Princeton is the finest undergrad institution in the country.

In all seriousness, would the P still be in HYPSM if not for USNWR over the last 20 years? Princeton's lack of professional schools and limited number of truly elite grad schools make it not fit with the others at this point in the overall university sense.
Princeton and Dartmouth do care about undergrads but are still way too big and have way too many grad students (that top profs actually pick) to give you the type of undergrad experience you'd get at an Amherst, Swarthmore, or Williams.

There wouldn't be a HYPSM category at all without a P.

It's like a game when everyone gets the same prize, doesn't it make that "prize" feel less valuable? It is human nature to want something other people can't have so attaining HYPSM is not just about the actual education etc. It's about how you feel you (ie your kid) won the game.

I think that is part of PP's point. Princeton isn't quite "winning the game" in the same way as Harvard and Stanford. The name doesn't have the same universal recognition and prestige as those two and Yale either.

Agree

?? For anyone interested in STEM, Princeton >> Yale. Honestly I believe HPSM are in a class of their own for undergrad, with Yale, Caltech, Duke, Penn right behind

What STEM areas in Princeton so strong in? If Yale doesn't belong in that group, Princeton doesn't either. You could just list HSM and I'd understand that more.

If lower Ivy boosters keep trying to pick away at HYPSM, maybe we’ll believe that Cornell and Columbia are just as good. Keep plugging away!

Cornell and Columbia ARE better than Harvard and Yale in STEM.

I have no bone in this fight. But Yale in particular should not be regarded as a top 10 school.

LOL let's not get ahead of ourselves. Harvard is better than every ivy aside from Princeton in STEM. Its weakest facet is the "T" in STEM, and that's mostly because they let that work get done by MIT a 10 minute trip across the river. Harvard is top or close to top in the world at math and science.

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Anonymous wrote:Regardless of what you all think, Princeton is the finest undergrad institution in the country.

In all seriousness, would the P still be in HYPSM if not for USNWR over the last 20 years? Princeton's lack of professional schools and limited number of truly elite grad schools make it not fit with the others at this point in the overall university sense.
Princeton and Dartmouth do care about undergrads but are still way too big and have way too many grad students (that top profs actually pick) to give you the type of undergrad experience you'd get at an Amherst, Swarthmore, or Williams.

There wouldn't be a HYPSM category at all without a P.

It's like a game when everyone gets the same prize, doesn't it make that "prize" feel less valuable? It is human nature to want something other people can't have so attaining HYPSM is not just about the actual education etc. It's about how you feel you (ie your kid) won the game.

I think that is part of PP's point. Princeton isn't quite "winning the game" in the same way as Harvard and Stanford. The name doesn't have the same universal recognition and prestige as those two and Yale either.

Agree

?? For anyone interested in STEM, Princeton >> Yale. Honestly I believe HPSM are in a class of their own for undergrad, with Yale, Caltech, Duke, Penn right behind

What STEM areas in Princeton so strong in? If Yale doesn't belong in that group, Princeton doesn't either. You could just list HSM and I'd understand that more.

The class of its own is HPSM. Princeton is phenomenal for physics, math, all natural sciences, statistics, etc. Have you heard of Albert Einstein?

Albert Einstein doesn't relate more to Princeton than Caltech.
Einstein rents an office at Princeton for his lab, that's it.

It’s called The Manhattan Project because all the key work started at Columbia (with an assist from Chicago).

But hey the frisbee was invented at Yale.