True, 12:01--it is fascinating!

Anonymous wrote:It's a man's world. Look at all the posts about Sidwell football, as if it were still the 1950s and no girls' sports program existed.

The ultimate irony is that most of these posters are women. Women with boys who want their boys raised in a man's world environment. One could write a college thesis about such a thing.

It's a man's world. Look at all the posts about Sidwell football, as if it were still the 1950s and no girls' sports program existed.

Over 2 years and 1200 replies later, the longetivity of this thread is astounding. Can someone fill me in - what's so special about St. Albans. I know enough to know it offers a top notch education. But so do many other independent schools. I also am somewhat perplexed by the apparent absence of a similar obsession when it comes to St. Albans' sister-school, NCS.

Ditto; but I would also say that I do think the spirit of competition comes from the boys themselves (not just their parents) and (1) is not just physical; and (2) is treated as sort of normal and healthy and part of being a boy by the school. So, for example, you might have an activity in history class structured as a mock trial to tap into this characteristic--but agree it is not "hide the books in the library so the other guy can't get them" mean-spirited variety of competition.

I have a son in the same grade and I find it odd that the PP cannot think of any non competitive boys. I know several without even blinking (in a grade of about 50). We have a boy who is totally into science and music and not into sports at all; we have a very good natured boy who is completely un-athletic and yet very popular, we have another kid who has never played an organized sport ever and is loving trying STA sports -- there really are many different kinds of boys there.

Back in 4th (C Form), we had many boys who played with their yugioh (spelling? mine never did this) cards during recess and others that did yo yo tricks. Maybe the PP is a real STA parent (no reason to doubt them) but I would like to say that there are quite a number of non competitive boys there. Think about the winners of the Lascaze (again, spelling? mine didn't win!) award every year, who receive a pair of binoculars for having a rose colored outlook -- it is a prize awarded in the name of a young man killed in a car accident and given to a boy who just brings good cheer among the grade. The kid who won a few years ago (and it was only 3 not 4 by the way PP) in our grade was not exactly a competitive type. yet he and the others I mentioned are thriving.

Here is my take on defining competitive. Grades count and they factor into end of the year academic prizes. I think parents care more than many boys quite frankly but it does mean that boys are competing against each other. I don't think that makes them jerks to each other at all -- quite the contrary actually. Last week one boy (one who has won prizes) had a study guide he made for a big science test and he shared it with the whole class. That's pretty nice to me.

So while it is competitive, it is not mean spirited and cut throat. At least not the lower school and 6th grade and below.

Can you define competitive? I've heard about Prize Day and Blue/White Day, but that sounds like all fair and good to me. I really do think honors should be given when they are earned. So, where's the "overwhelming" aspect? Is it like in college when someone changes someone's alarm clock so that they miss an exam and the motivation behind it is so that they therefore wont be represented in the curve? Is it that kind of thing or refusing to help another kid because ,"we are competing for GPA" ? Just what degree of competition are you alluding to ?

13:43 rings true to me. As a converse, the boys I know who have been unhappy at STA, and wanted to leave/left, have been very intelligent and good students, but have found the competition to be overwhelming.

Anonymous wrote:For those with boys currently at STA who entered in 4th: What were your boys like as 7 and 8 year olds? Were they studious, social, active etc? Sometimes I wonder if there is only "one type" of boy that does well there-- the quiet, studious boy in the corner. Is there any truth to that??

That seems like so long ago. But it wasn't. My DS is now an "A Former" (i.e., 6th grade), so that was only 4 years ago. There really is no "one type," but if you had to nail down such a thing, my boy would fit the mold. And he is not now, nor was he at 8, the "quiet, studious boy" in the corner. My boy is now, as he was when he was 8, first and foremost, a boys, boy, who loves running, jumping, wrestling, and throwing. Anytime. All the time. Sports were, and are, the center of his life. Unathletic boys do exist at STA. But I know not a single one who is not competitive. And boy does STA foster competition, in every conceivable way. For those of us of the warm and nurturing school of thought, competition may seem at first anathema and distasteful. But you see how healthy competition leads to learning, and bonding, and fun. My sports loving, competition hungry, and chest thumping boy was hardly quiet 8, and he is actually quite loud now at 12. When I observe him at school, he and his cohorts are usually yelling or screaming or laughing, usually at the "Prison Yard" basketball/soccer area near the pick-up area. Actually, PP, now that I think about it, there are few true "quiet studious boys in the corner" at STA, at least as far as I can tell.

For those with boys currently at STA who entered in 4th: What were your boys like as 7 and 8 year olds? Were they studious, social, active etc? Sometimes I wonder if there is only "one type" of boy that does well there-- the quiet, studious boy in the corner. Is there any truth to that??

I love what the last two articulate posters said.

Us too, me too.

My boys do LOVE it -- they love going to school and when there are extended breaks, they miss their friends. They have both had teachers that may be put into that lasting category of "life-changing" (ie when they win -- in their dreams of course -- that first oscar, Heisman, MVP Trophy, whatever -- I can see them both thanking a certain teacher/coach who inspires the word inspire).

The work is rigorous (and yes there are complaints) but they pull off excellent grades. They love being involved in activities -- from wearing a jersey for the school, being in the math meet yesterday, singing, writing for the paper, acting -- their talents are celebrated there. It is a warm place from the inside looking out, much warmer than it feels when you look from the outside.

My observation, having had a front row seat for the last 6 years, is that the school seems quite adept at walking a fine line - drilling into the boys that they are special in a variety of ways, but off-setting that with lessons in humility and compassion. The end product seems to be boys who understand that they have been given much (first and foremost the gift of an STA education), and thus must go out into the world and give back much.

Upper school experience here, but one thing I like about the interactions is how unselfconciously friendly/affectionate the guys are with each other -- you'll see someone throw an arm over another kid's shoulders without thinking about it or worry about being teased, etc. The all-boys' thing does seem to create a "brotherly" atmosphere--you might complain about your brother but you are loyal to him and you'll stick with him if need be. The overall place seems quite cheerful--they'll complain, but even the complaints are generally good-natured. In terms of the school admin, etc., it is a kinder place than I'd imagined (I thought it would be more like what I'd seen in the movies about British schools--stiff upper lip etc).; very understanding adults, a wonderful and compassionate young chaplain who reaches out and connects with the boys. On self esteem, I'd say the typical St. Alban boy really does have plenty! Sometimes I worry that they are too confident of their abilities, including in relation to whether they give enough credit to the idea that GIRLS too can be really, really smart, but they seem to figure it out pretty well in the end and there's enough interaction with NCS that they form some healthy friendships. I think, as is probably the case at more of the all-boys' school, that being reasonably athletic is a plus for a good experience, but then again I've seen non-athletic kids thrive (last year's school president was basically a genius who, as far as I recall, was not athletic at all).

Thank you to the posters who pointed out that I was very likely responding to an old Toth post. The thought that I asked him to email me off line scares me to death. Wow, I can see how he conned parents if it was his MO to critique St. Albans as in the post referred to here.

My questions for St. Alban's parents: I have talked with many in person and I have also talked with boys who are there and just sort of watched how they act in public: they look and act like boys. Not much yield there.I have talked with alumnae who are in their 5th and 6th decades of life about what has stayed with them about the place all these years later. Many have said that they learned how to use the English language , but that isn't the same as saying," I loved it there" , "I loved my teachers" or "I have so many friends who are friends for life from my time there" or "it was such a great community" All of those characterizations might be true , but this is not the first thing that they say.

So, STA parents and/or STA students please share: What do you think is exceptional about the place? What about it do you love?

I can see it is a beautiful school and I can read the test results on- line but that doesn't tell me what it is like for a 10 year old boy to walk those halls. Mine are strong students, well liked and well mannered, but I do so want them to be happy and grow up with a healthy self esteem.

Anonymous wrote:

Plenty of tutoring goes on for kids at STA, athletes and non-athletes alike. Tutors can be seen during the school day working with kids during their free periods, and after lunch/before sports on or off campus. STA is strong academically but there is still a relatively broad range of student abilities, sometimes diverging by subject matter (student who is strong in humanities but works with a math science tutor; student who is strong in math science but works with a foreign language tutor). I doubt there is much difference in use of tutors between STA and other schools catering to academically proficient and/or ambitious kids/families--I just don't see this as controversial.

Explain why it is so common for these entitlement parents of private school children to feel so much shame and embarrassment they are driven to lie and tell half truths? What's so shameful about prepping for entrance tests and extra tutoring? Their attitude harks back to the Pilgrim days of Hester Prynne in Nathaniel Hawthorne's, The Scarlet Letter!

I have to tell you, as an English Ph.D...I don't get the analogy at all. But good you remember your literature.