Anonymous
06/22/2011 14:31
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
what does a wisc score in the range of 120-130 tell the committee any thing new about the kid? nothing actually. why is that a game changer when they rejected the kid on the basis of flimsier grounds? looking at some of the wisc scores that were posted, you can not fathom in any logical way, why those scores made the committee change their mind. just because some parents strongly believed in their kids that they went through the appeals process makes those kids eligible??? entire AAP process is illogical.
They should have set higher cutoff scores for the pool, and accept anyone who is in the pool and scratch the initial sceening committee(saves money for the county). Kids who are not in pool could go through the appeal process providing GBRS(or teacher recommendation), WISC, work samples and what not.
They should have set higher cutoff scores for the pool, and accept anyone who is in the pool and scratch the initial sceening committee(saves money for the county). Kids who are not in pool could go through the appeal process providing GBRS(or teacher recommendation), WISC, work samples and what not.
Anonymous
06/22/2011 14:19
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
dont agree. if we take our own tj school, teachers recommendation weighs 20-25%, which is a lot
Anonymous
06/22/2011 14:11
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
Anonymous wrote:
As someone who doesn't care either way about the appeals process and how kids get into the program, don't you think the factors mentioned in the CogAT testing really do matter? For instance, if a kid isn't feeling well but still does well on the test, doesn't that also mean that they are the type of kid that can succeed no matter what is going on? After all, you can't re-schedule that Algebra test or science project because you don't feel 100%. You can't re-schedule SATs over and over because your kiddo didn't sleep well the night before and might be a little tired. The whole 'My child wasn't 100%' excuse seems like nothing more than someone trying to justify their child's less than perfect scores. After all, are you going to keep them home from school every time they have the sniffles because they might get a B? Pop quizzes must be a nightmare!
The one Algebra test don't determine whole grade for the year. You get plenty of time to finish the science project.
You get chance to take SAT a few time. On average students take 3 times.
There might be cases that kids got really sick or had an accident. Of course there may be cases the parents are just making excuses.
Teachers konw the student best? Remember teachers' recommendations are only secondary reference when entering colleges.
Anonymous
06/22/2011 13:26
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:cogat 140 is much higher percentile. looks like they accepted almost all who appealed. where as in the first round it is very restrictive. this only proves appeal process is a farce.
It is a higher percentage, yes...but of what? It measures something...specifically how the child is at taking the the CogAT. The ability to take the CogAT that day is dependent on 1) attention of the kid, 2) how the kid is feeling, 3) the kids intelligence, and 4) preparation.
because of the way the WISC is given, attention is not an issue, preparation does not work, and how the kid is feeling (i.e., sick) can be factored in -- i.e., lets reschedule for a different day. That means the WISC is measuring intelligence whereas the other tests are measuring something that includes intelligence.
Unlike some parents on this board, the county understands this. They also understand that the county can not afford the time or money to give every child a WISC. They understand the shortcomings, and use the GBRS as a measure to offset the other issues.
As someone who doesn't care either way about the appeals process and how kids get into the program, don't you think the factors mentioned in the CogAT testing really do matter? For instance, if a kid isn't feeling well but still does well on the test, doesn't that also mean that they are the type of kid that can succeed no matter what is going on? After all, you can't re-schedule that Algebra test or science project because you don't feel 100%. You can't re-schedule SATs over and over because your kiddo didn't sleep well the night before and might be a little tired. The whole 'My child wasn't 100%' excuse seems like nothing more than someone trying to justify their child's less than perfect scores. After all, are you going to keep them home from school every time they have the sniffles because they might get a B? Pop quizzes must be a nightmare!
It just seems to me that being 'gifted' is about more than a test grade, which is why I am a fan of the GBRS. The teacher knows the child on good days and bad and really is the best judge, over any number of tests. I don't believe the paranoia that teachers are giving lower scores on purpose for whatever reasons have been mentioned because ultimately teachers have kids best interests at heart and there is no real reason to sand bag a second grader.
Having said all this, I will say that my child got in the program last year without appeal (sorry that I can't rattle off CogAt scores, but his GBRS was 13), did very well in the program and is looking forward to his fourth grade year. I don't care (and didn't care last year) how many other kids got into the program or how many AAP classes were necessary. I've never once thought about the kids in his class and wondered how they got in, and I don't really care. I am happy to have your kids who got in on appeal in my kids class. I just think that being gifted is about more than a test score and think the excuses that parents make for their kids scores are just kind of silly. Your kids scores are what they are. Gifted kids can overcome.
On the other hand GBRS is much more subjective and inconsistent than test results teacher by teacher and school by school. I don't blame the teachers much, but the Committe is not doing good job making it more consistent and objective.
My kid got exceptional test scores on all the tests - 99% on NNAT, 98% on CogAT(99.9% on one of the subtest), 99.7% on WISC. Somehow got mediocre GBRS rating. Do I think the teachers rating the best judge? Aboslutely not. I think the consistant test scores say it all.
My kid's teacher was new to FCPS this year. She's young teacher. Very professional and great teacher. However depends on how she understood the whole AAP program and how she formed her own philosophy and attitute toward the selection process, the socre could vary as much as 3-4 pts in my opinion.
In each category, one generous teacher may give 1 more point than another teacher who's more conservative. That can be critical in selection.
In fact her scoring might be more objective and fair, but I think the rating is inflated in general. Hence the committee set high cut off line like 12 or something.
Anyways, that's why there's the appeal process, and I'm ok with the whole process.
Anonymous
06/22/2011 13:01
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
Anonymous wrote:
For what its worth, in grad school, I took part in an experiment that measured the impact of short term environment on intelligence. In my case, they could demonstrate a loss of more than 2 sigma (40 points to be precise) over a period of two hours -- I dropped 40 points after eating two donuts (but gained two pounds).
Mmmmm....doughnuts.
I just gained two pounds thinking about them. But I digress.....
Anonymous
06/22/2011 12:58
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
PP: In my post about the CogAT, my point is the CogAT is a combination of multiple factors, some of which have nothing to do with intelligence. Not making excuses....but there is a difference between an Algebra test which will be one of many throughout the year, and a one and done in the second grade.
Remember, many gifted children are emotionally at grade level.
For what its worth, in grad school, I took part in an experiment that measured the impact of short term environment on intelligence. In my case, they could demonstrate a loss of more than 2 sigma (40 points to be precise) over a period of two hours -- I dropped 40 points after eating two donuts (but gained two pounds).
Remember, many gifted children are emotionally at grade level.
For what its worth, in grad school, I took part in an experiment that measured the impact of short term environment on intelligence. In my case, they could demonstrate a loss of more than 2 sigma (40 points to be precise) over a period of two hours -- I dropped 40 points after eating two donuts (but gained two pounds).
Anonymous
06/22/2011 12:34
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:cogat 140 is much higher percentile. looks like they accepted almost all who appealed. where as in the first round it is very restrictive. this only proves appeal process is a farce.
It is a higher percentage, yes...but of what? It measures something...specifically how the child is at taking the the CogAT. The ability to take the CogAT that day is dependent on 1) attention of the kid, 2) how the kid is feeling, 3) the kids intelligence, and 4) preparation.
because of the way the WISC is given, attention is not an issue, preparation does not work, and how the kid is feeling (i.e., sick) can be factored in -- i.e., lets reschedule for a different day. That means the WISC is measuring intelligence whereas the other tests are measuring something that includes intelligence.
Unlike some parents on this board, the county understands this. They also understand that the county can not afford the time or money to give every child a WISC. They understand the shortcomings, and use the GBRS as a measure to offset the other issues.
As someone who doesn't care either way about the appeals process and how kids get into the program, don't you think the factors mentioned in the CogAT testing really do matter? For instance, if a kid isn't feeling well but still does well on the test, doesn't that also mean that they are the type of kid that can succeed no matter what is going on? After all, you can't re-schedule that Algebra test or science project because you don't feel 100%. You can't re-schedule SATs over and over because your kiddo didn't sleep well the night before and might be a little tired. The whole 'My child wasn't 100%' excuse seems like nothing more than someone trying to justify their child's less than perfect scores. After all, are you going to keep them home from school every time they have the sniffles because they might get a B? Pop quizzes must be a nightmare!
It just seems to me that being 'gifted' is about more than a test grade, which is why I am a fan of the GBRS. The teacher knows the child on good days and bad and really is the best judge, over any number of tests. I don't believe the paranoia that teachers are giving lower scores on purpose for whatever reasons have been mentioned because ultimately teachers have kids best interests at heart and there is no real reason to sand bag a second grader.
Having said all this, I will say that my child got in the program last year without appeal (sorry that I can't rattle off CogAt scores, but his GBRS was 13), did very well in the program and is looking forward to his fourth grade year. I don't care (and didn't care last year) how many other kids got into the program or how many AAP classes were necessary. I've never once thought about the kids in his class and wondered how they got in, and I don't really care. I am happy to have your kids who got in on appeal in my kids class. I just think that being gifted is about more than a test score and think the excuses that parents make for their kids scores are just kind of silly. Your kids scores are what they are. Gifted kids can overcome.
Anonymous
06/22/2011 10:55
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
Anonymous wrote:So troll attacks the parents instead of uncertainty in the system. Troll is a trolling troll!
Parents are simply playing by the rules.
Troll just has no clue. It must me some sort of mental problem.
Anonymous
Anonymous
06/22/2011 10:52
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
So troll attacks the parents instead of uncertainty in the system. Troll is a trolling troll!
Anonymous
06/22/2011 10:50
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
Anonymous wrote:i find it amusing that parents who questiond the committe about considering gbrs for the first round(because their dd could nt get in) readily accept wisc as a real test as their dd got accepted on appeal. troll is someone who questions the system. pparents who want to be patronized about their kid's smartness can not handle the troll, ie truth
Is the system perfect? No, but most people don't question the overall system start to finish.
Yes, the troll who seems to have severe problem with the system, but no fact or logic at all in it.
Anonymous
06/22/2011 10:24
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
Anonymous wrote:i find it amusing that parents who questiond the committe about considering gbrs for the first round(because their dd could nt get in) readily accept wisc as a real test as their dd got accepted on appeal. troll is someone who questions the system. pparents who want to be patronized about their kid's smartness can not handle the troll, ie truth
http://tinyurl.com/6fbvtex
Anonymous
06/22/2011 10:23
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
Our son is found eligible for the AAP with the options of either staying at Floris or attend McNair. Any parents out there whose children previously attended Floris, but attending McNair AAP now or the other way around? Why did you make the decision you did? What's better or not so good at Floris / McNair? Need to make a decision very soon. Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot!
Anonymous
06/22/2011 10:20
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
i find it amusing that parents who questiond the committe about considering gbrs for the first round(because their dd could nt get in) readily accept wisc as a real test as their dd got accepted on appeal. troll is someone who questions the system. pparents who want to be patronized about their kid's smartness can not handle the troll, ie truth
Anonymous
06/22/2011 09:57
Subject: GT/AAP Appeals
Part of the problem is that 64.8% of statistics cited on the internet are completely fabricated 