RantingSoccerDad wrote:I'm curious -- does Barca have some issue with NCSL? Seems like the upper NCSL divisions would be a better place for their B teams.

Granted, I've seen some outlandishly talented ODSL teams. But the bigger clubs are indeed putting their D and E teams there.

Anonymous wrote:The best players on the ODSL teams are not that good and that is why they’re not on the EDP team, in a higher age group, or in a higher league with another club. You just have a bone to pick.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So what happens when you have few overflow from that top team...They are still top team quality, but now you have to stick them in ODSL? You will never grow a club that way.

Development is not that binary. After a year and a half I've seen how Barca handles this. Players don't develop equally, at the same pace, and it's quite individual. How can a borderline player on a top team be challenged by putting them with a lower team? It's counter intuitive, but Barca gives them challenging situations. Can they become the leader? On the top team a borderline player will be trying to keep up but probably not leading. With the lower team, Barca may put them into a different position and challenge them to be a more vocal leader on the field. The player may be willing to take more risks against lower competition and develop their creativity. They may be challenged by putting them into a different position than they are used to - put a right back into center back, or put them into mid field to see what they can do and develop a different part of their game. Barca keeps a report card on every player, identifying in which areas they need to develop, and finding situations to develop it. Also, overflow goes in both directions. The top players on a top team also need more challenge, and will be brought into the top team at a higher age group, leaving more space for overflow. Girls may train or play on boys teams to get more challenge. Challenging situations can also be created when teams are mismatched and playing against each other. This happens often in internal competitions which are every week. The better team will be required to complete X number of passes before scoring, or every player on the team must touch the ball at least once before scoring. Barca does all these things all the time and I've seen the development in my two kids over the last year and a half. Putting teams in ODSL is not about winning games for Barca. It's about putting players into positions where they can best develop the skills and soccer IQ that they are teaching.

This sounds nice in theory, but most top quality or even reasonably good players will not be happy about being moved down to a team that plays in a bottom of the barrel league, if the reasons for the move are not clearly communicated to the player. The issue is not simply moving a player from A team to a B team that may be a lower level, but still competes against reasonably strong opposition. Does the club/coaches/technical director talk to players before they put him or her in a "challenging situation" to "lead" an ODSL team? Can the same thing be accomplished by having the players train and play with their team and giving them opportunities to regularly guest play with an ODSL team so that their speed of play does not deteriorate and they still get to develop their creativity against a low level competition?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So what happens when you have few overflow from that top team...They are still top team quality, but now you have to stick them in ODSL? You will never grow a club that way.

Development is not that binary. After a year and a half I've seen how Barca handles this. Players don't develop equally, at the same pace, and it's quite individual. How can a borderline player on a top team be challenged by putting them with a lower team? It's counter intuitive, but Barca gives them challenging situations. Can they become the leader? On the top team a borderline player will be trying to keep up but probably not leading. With the lower team, Barca may put them into a different position and challenge them to be a more vocal leader on the field. The player may be willing to take more risks against lower competition and develop their creativity. They may be challenged by putting them into a different position than they are used to - put a right back into center back, or put them into mid field to see what they can do and develop a different part of their game. Barca keeps a report card on every player, identifying in which areas they need to develop, and finding situations to develop it. Also, overflow goes in both directions. The top players on a top team also need more challenge, and will be brought into the top team at a higher age group, leaving more space for overflow. Girls may train or play on boys teams to get more challenge. Challenging situations can also be created when teams are mismatched and playing against each other. This happens often in internal competitions which are every week. The better team will be required to complete X number of passes before scoring, or every player on the team must touch the ball at least once before scoring. Barca does all these things all the time and I've seen the development in my two kids over the last year and a half. Putting teams in ODSL is not about winning games for Barca. It's about putting players into positions where they can best develop the skills and soccer IQ that they are teaching.

This sounds nice in theory, but most top quality or even reasonably good players will not be happy about being moved down to a team that plays in a bottom of the barrel league, if the reasons for the move are not clearly communicated to the player. The issue is not simply moving a player from A team to a B team that may be a lower level, but still competes against reasonably strong opposition. Does the club/coaches/technical director talk to players before they put him or her in a "challenging situation" to "lead" an ODSL team? Can the same thing be accomplished by having the players train and play with their team and giving them opportunities to regularly guest play with an ODSL team so that their speed of play does not deteriorate and they still get to develop their creativity against a low level competition?

Anonymous wrote:

So what happens when you have few overflow from that top team...They are still top team quality, but now you have to stick them in ODSL? You will never grow a club that way.

Development is not that binary. After a year and a half I've seen how Barca handles this. Players don't develop equally, at the same pace, and it's quite individual. How can a borderline player on a top team be challenged by putting them with a lower team? It's counter intuitive, but Barca gives them challenging situations. Can they become the leader? On the top team a borderline player will be trying to keep up but probably not leading. With the lower team, Barca may put them into a different position and challenge them to be a more vocal leader on the field. The player may be willing to take more risks against lower competition and develop their creativity. They may be challenged by putting them into a different position than they are used to - put a right back into center back, or put them into mid field to see what they can do and develop a different part of their game. Barca keeps a report card on every player, identifying in which areas they need to develop, and finding situations to develop it. Also, overflow goes in both directions. The top players on a top team also need more challenge, and will be brought into the top team at a higher age group, leaving more space for overflow. Girls may train or play on boys teams to get more challenge. Challenging situations can also be created when teams are mismatched and playing against each other. This happens often in internal competitions which are every week. The better team will be required to complete X number of passes before scoring, or every player on the team must touch the ball at least once before scoring. Barca does all these things all the time and I've seen the development in my two kids over the last year and a half. Putting teams in ODSL is not about winning games for Barca. It's about putting players into positions where they can best develop the skills and soccer IQ that they are teaching.

So what happens when you have few overflow from that top team...They are still top team quality, but now you have to stick them in ODSL? You will never grow a club that way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But that's my point, isn't it? Why pay $3K+ for playing on a low level team when you can pay three times less and play in the same league?

$3K is for the training, coaches and club experience, not for the league. Do the other teams in ODSL that cost less provide the same quality of coaches, training, and development? I doubt it. Most of the kids in the Barca ODSL teams are not elite, never will be, their parents know that, the kids know that, the coaches know that, and they have no aspirations to play behind HS soccer. AND THATS OK. Just because they aren't elite doesn't mean they can't get high quality training, because they love to play, and let's face it $3k for a year long kids activity in this area is not a lot of money to many people (start another thread if you want to discuss how much is too much for parents to spend on their kids). Stop judging.

There are two tiers of Barca players, as I suspect there are in many other clubs. There are the highly talented and motivated ones who have college and professional aspirations, and for these players there is EDP and beyond. Then there are the less talented but motivated ones who enjoy the game and may play for their HS. If teams or players develop past ODSL then they will be moved up. If not who cares?

Oh yeah, there is one other type of player that is common in most clubs around here. Those whose parents want to be able to say their kid plays in a top league, even if they never get time in the field or the team loses every game 0-10, or the coaches and training are terrible.

So what happens when you have few overflow from that top team...They are still top team quality, but now you have to stick them in ODSL? You will never grow a club that way.

Anonymous wrote:My perspective on things. If Barca is a premier club, then they need to compete at that level. You aren't going to attract top talent when you have to advertise my top team is EDP and everyone else is ODSL, can you guarantee me that my kid is on the EDP roster?

It's not about shopping leagues, its about level of competition you will encounter. ODSL is a low league for 3rd level and below teams in large clubs and independents for everyone else. Shows me that Barca isn't recruiting top talent and ODSL isn't going to get them there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My perspective on things. If Barca is a premier club, then they need to compete at that level. You aren't going to attract top talent when you have to advertise my top team is EDP and everyone else is ODSL, can you guarantee me that my kid is on the EDP roster?

It's not about shopping leagues, its about level of competition you will encounter. ODSL is a low league for 3rd level and below teams in large clubs and independents for everyone else. Shows me that Barca isn't recruiting top talent and ODSL isn't going to get them there.

You also can't just become a DA or ECNL club. That is not how it works. It takes time to build up to that. Much of this is about playing the GotSoccer game. You have to win some tournaments to get some points to be accepted to some bigger tournaments, on and on....

Leagues are not much different. You need a viable player pool at all ages to enter Club based leagues like CCL or NPL. EDP, NCSL and ODSL can accept various teams. Barca did not have enough teams at all age levels to even qualify to apply to NPL or CCL not to mention the initial talent to even be competitive.

It will take Barca 5-10 years to build a strong sustainable program. They may need to adjust some of their pricing models along the way but I suspect they believe that their teams will move up through the leagues.

They could have done NCSL without any issues. ODSL is way to low level of a league if you plan on charging premium price, most ODSL teams are rec teams that get use a clubs name to participate. Almost all are volunteer coaches.

The price is subjective stop stating it like it is an objective truth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My perspective on things. If Barca is a premier club, then they need to compete at that level. You aren't going to attract top talent when you have to advertise my top team is EDP and everyone else is ODSL, can you guarantee me that my kid is on the EDP roster?

It's not about shopping leagues, its about level of competition you will encounter. ODSL is a low league for 3rd level and below teams in large clubs and independents for everyone else. Shows me that Barca isn't recruiting top talent and ODSL isn't going to get them there.

You also can't just become a DA or ECNL club. That is not how it works. It takes time to build up to that. Much of this is about playing the GotSoccer game. You have to win some tournaments to get some points to be accepted to some bigger tournaments, on and on....

Leagues are not much different. You need a viable player pool at all ages to enter Club based leagues like CCL or NPL. EDP, NCSL and ODSL can accept various teams. Barca did not have enough teams at all age levels to even qualify to apply to NPL or CCL not to mention the initial talent to even be competitive.

It will take Barca 5-10 years to build a strong sustainable program. They may need to adjust some of their pricing models along the way but I suspect they believe that their teams will move up through the leagues.

They could have done NCSL without any issues. ODSL is way to low level of a league if you plan on charging premium price, most ODSL teams are rec teams that get use a clubs name to participate. Almost all are volunteer coaches.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My perspective on things. If Barca is a premier club, then they need to compete at that level. You aren't going to attract top talent when you have to advertise my top team is EDP and everyone else is ODSL, can you guarantee me that my kid is on the EDP roster?

It's not about shopping leagues, its about level of competition you will encounter. ODSL is a low league for 3rd level and below teams in large clubs and independents for everyone else. Shows me that Barca isn't recruiting top talent and ODSL isn't going to get them there.

You also can't just become a DA or ECNL club. That is not how it works. It takes time to build up to that. Much of this is about playing the GotSoccer game. You have to win some tournaments to get some points to be accepted to some bigger tournaments, on and on....

Leagues are not much different. You need a viable player pool at all ages to enter Club based leagues like CCL or NPL. EDP, NCSL and ODSL can accept various teams. Barca did not have enough teams at all age levels to even qualify to apply to NPL or CCL not to mention the initial talent to even be competitive.

It will take Barca 5-10 years to build a strong sustainable program. They may need to adjust some of their pricing models along the way but I suspect they believe that their teams will move up through the leagues.

Anonymous wrote:My perspective on things. If Barca is a premier club, then they need to compete at that level. You aren't going to attract top talent when you have to advertise my top team is EDP and everyone else is ODSL, can you guarantee me that my kid is on the EDP roster?

It's not about shopping leagues, its about level of competition you will encounter. ODSL is a low league for 3rd level and below teams in large clubs and independents for everyone else. Shows me that Barca isn't recruiting top talent and ODSL isn't going to get them there.

Anonymous wrote:

But that's my point, isn't it? Why pay $3K+ for playing on a low level team when you can pay three times less and play in the same league?

$3K is for the training, coaches and club experience, not for the league. Do the other teams in ODSL that cost less provide the same quality of coaches, training, and development? I doubt it. Most of the kids in the Barca ODSL teams are not elite, never will be, their parents know that, the kids know that, the coaches know that, and they have no aspirations to play behind HS soccer. AND THATS OK. Just because they aren't elite doesn't mean they can't get high quality training, because they love to play, and let's face it $3k for a year long kids activity in this area is not a lot of money to many people (start another thread if you want to discuss how much is too much for parents to spend on their kids). Stop judging.

There are two tiers of Barca players, as I suspect there are in many other clubs. There are the highly talented and motivated ones who have college and professional aspirations, and for these players there is EDP and beyond. Then there are the less talented but motivated ones who enjoy the game and may play for their HS. If teams or players develop past ODSL then they will be moved up. If not who cares?

Oh yeah, there is one other type of player that is common in most clubs around here. Those whose parents want to be able to say their kid plays in a top league, even if they never get time in the field or the team loses every game 0-10, or the coaches and training are terrible.